MTH Trains, The Ultimate Discussion..

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Alright guys, so we all know that when it comes to MTH the ho community is split in terms of liking or disliking their products and at the end it of the day it comes down to one thing, PROGRAMMING! I just watched this video of Mike Wolf, President of MTH, talking and in my observation defending his product. In a way it made me look at the new MTH engines differently. It appears as if they are listening to the customer and are making their locomotives more DCC friendly. My only suggestion at this point would be to allow us to change the sounds in our locomotives. What do you guys think about the video and the new MTH products coming out, what would you change? Let your thoughts be heard and let the ultimate MTH discussion begin!


[video=youtube;BnVFaUVVMT0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnVFaUVVMT0[/video]
 

Motley

Active Member
Ya I already knew all this. I have several MTH SD70Aces and they have all DCC functionality I need.

This guy should have asked Mike Wolf why they decided to put an old version of their decoder in the new Challengers and Big Boys. I would love to see his explanation for that.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
They have made the decision not to upgrade the system for the steam engines. Ever.
 

blackz28

Well-Known Member
never upgrade their. steam ever????????? well im done with MTH steam so whatever (huge facepalm)
 
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Selector

Well-Known Member
MTH makes a decent toy train. I don't know that, except for the recent Big Boy mess, anybody could accuse them of making junk. They have good solid and proven drives, their shells and frames are great, they are heavy pullers, and they have good sounds. Unfortunately, maybe to save development costs, dunno, they entered the HO market with a hi-rail O gauge orientation, and boy did they miss the mark! Right away there were lawsuits galore, and PM's between members on forums scattered here and there, and between many of those forumites and Mike Wolf, but we got nowhere. No budging...so don't ask us again. That alone was enough to make me give up and keep buying the usual suppliers, and I have never once been disappointed in a single locomotive....well, except for that one wretched Bachmann Spectrum Series J Class....yikes...!

Then, I couldn't help myself, but when MTH announced they were going to release that beauty queen of steamers known as the Union Class, the UP's 9000 series 4-12-2, I was all eyes, ears, and lust. Then came the reality - an articulated frame with smokebox overhang a-la-Big Boy. Except, if the UP had wanted the Union to work like a Big Boy, they would have named it Big Boy. That spelled the end for me. Nowadays, it seems MTH's term of reference, or anchor, in the HO world is BLI, their Nemesis. When BLI announces a model, so does MTH. They managed to flub the Big Boy terribly this time, their J Class, although metal, is highly overpriced, and are they not doing a Pennsy 2-8-0, just like BLI? They have also done the Mohawk, like BLI, and the Dreyfus Hudson, like BLI.

I don't know if any of you know what schadenfreud is, but it's that little joyous shiver you get when you know someone else is getting all the bad attention and you feel secure....and on top. I would bet big bucks the boys at BLI are just a little pleased with this cave-in by Mike Wolf who has at last smelled the coffee. Or, maybe they are unhappy because MTH is slowly coming around to actually offering what we have asked for all along?

One last personal observation - no matter which command control system, I don't use any F Functions above 8. I tried F42, Toilet Flush, but I thought is was a wash.
 
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Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
Alright guys, so we all know that when it comes to MTH the ho community is split in terms of liking or disliking their products and at the end it of the day it comes down to one thing, PROGRAMMING!
I don't think you really understand the core issues. The HO community is split not on the basis of the products, but on the basis of the integrity of the company. I have NO problem with their products, but I will never own one because they have built a reputation for frivolous lawsuits that have hindered the entire hobby and other what I consider questionable business practices. They could build the BEST HO product in the WORLD and I would not buy one.
 

ianacole

Well-Known Member
Just to be fair, MTH has been on the receiving end of lawsuits as well, to include Woodland Scenics suing them for using their products in catalogs.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
I own two, an SD70ACe for almost free, and a J. After a lot of trouble, we finally got the SD70 upgraded so I could load speed tables and do advanced consisting with it.
The J was a last resort, after three smoked Spectrum J's, and the same number of problem children from BLI. So far, the J has performed well, but I know it will never be upgradeable as far as the advanced DCC stuff. They have said they will not make that available for any steam engine. Their excuse when I asked was that most people run their steam engines singly, so there is no need to consist them or load speed tables.
When somebody like MTH says "we are not going to do it", I believe them.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
to include Woodland Scenics suing them for using their products in catalogs.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest if it had been almost any other model train company using those products, they would have been grateful for the free publicity. Of course, my dim recollection is MTH tried somehow to pass that stuff off as their own, or something.
 
The HO community is split not on the basis of the products, but on the basis of the integrity of the company.

Honestly I could care or less who sued who. I just want a train that looks and sounds good as well as runs nice.
 

Selector

Well-Known Member
Railroadkid, I cannot agree with your first statement just now. It is certainly the integrity of MTH that has a burr under the saddle of many of us, but at least as many of us do not like, and cannot use their products because it means an unnecessary purchase to get the full functionality out of them as if they were like the rest of our DCC purchases...the controller for which we have already gone to the trouble to research, to acquire, and to learn.

It's like investing in Microsoft and Intel engineering for a home PC, and suddenly Apple comes along...or vice-versa. A person could always change, but.....why?
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
It's like investing in Microsoft and Intel engineering for a home PC, and suddenly Apple comes along...or vice-versa. A person could always change, but.....why?
I would have to be given a very compelling reason for doing so. The proportion of MTH fans to not is probably roughly the same as Microsoft users to Apple. IF (and that is a really big if) MTH ever allows full DCC compatibility, then I might get more of their products. Maybe.
 
trials and tribulation

G'day I only have one MTH loco....It is a SD70 ACe When I got it , I thought it would be straightforward to set it up..three weeks later and all i could get was Analog running..thanks to the kind assistance of this forum a method and a certain amount of luck allowed me to finally get DCC running with it..It runs beautifully...but the trials of programming it has dissuaded me from buying another ..I've bought a few Athearn Genesis ..not an issue with any of them...so the jury is still out for me on MTH..Thanks for posting..Cheers Rod..
Alright guys, so we all know that when it comes to MTH the ho community is split in terms of liking or disliking their products and at the end it of the day it comes down to one thing, PROGRAMMING! I just watched this video of Mike Wolf, President of MTH, talking and in my observation defending his product. In a way it made me look at the new MTH engines differently. It appears as if they are listening to the customer and are making their locomotives more DCC friendly. My only suggestion at this point would be to allow us to change the sounds in our locomotives. What do you guys think about the video and the new MTH products coming out, what would you change? Let your thoughts be heard and let the ultimate MTH discussion begin
[video=youtube;BnVFaUVVMT0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnVFaUVVMT0[/video]
 

wombat457

Well-Known Member
Staff member
An old post, yep I know but couldn't not post ...

A company that lacks integrity?????? Wow, there's a news flash I didn't know about! The great corporate/business ethic ..."make as much money as possible, in the shortest period of time and to hell with the customer..." From the sounds of things, this MTH mob have turned that into an art form. Perhaps following in Microsoft's footsteps who really DID make the ethic an art form :) ??????

Cheers,

wombat457

PS: sorry for the sarcasm.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
An old post, yep I know but couldn't not post ...

A company that lacks integrity?????? Wow, there's a news flash I didn't know about! The great corporate/business ethic ..."make as much money as possible, in the shortest period of time and to hell with the customer..." From the sounds of things, this MTH mob have turned that into an art form. Perhaps following in Microsoft's footsteps who really DID make the ethic an art form :) ??????

Cheers,

wombat457

PS: sorry for the sarcasm.
"Thank you for calling Microsoft tech support. Your call is very important to us. Please continue to hold, and your call will be ignored in the order it was received."
 

dinwitty

Member
its simple, Mike Wolf hitting the HO market with his proprietary design in an HO world requiring common interchangeable designs, happens in the real railroad world, won't work with things like AAR and other regulatory agencies requiring interchange compatibilities. What I don't like is the legal suing going on, its just bad business for a hobby thats been highly cooperative with each other.
 

Cjcrescent

Master Mechanic
In actuality, this isn't even close to the "Ultimate Discussion" about mth. I believe that occurred about 5 years or so ago, (maybe even longer), over on the MR forums. There, the VP of mth, whose name is Andy Edelmann, IIRC, came on to the discussions trying to explain why mth and dcs was better. He failed miserably and at one point I could see him dressed as the typical Nazi from WWII stating, "You vill use da dcs and you vill like it, or else!" The reasoning as he saw it was that since dcs was a superior system to DCC, that the modeler would just stop using DCC and go with dcs. He couldn't grasp the concept that because the way the decoder handled the information packets needed for speed, direction and also headlights was a standard of the NMRA and because ALL decoders handled that the same way, they were universal across the systems. Mr Edelmann seemed like he couldn't understand why it mattered that the ONLY way to get dcs was with a mth engine. And since dcs decoders weren't available separately, unlike DCC decoders, they had already lost a huge amount of sales. IIRC he may have even told some of the folks that they should be getting rid of their collections they may have spent years getting, and go with the mth engines. Which at that time consisted of a PRR K4. Not good if you model the SRR, or L&N, or even ATSF! There was a lot more as that discussion went to over 20 pages in less than a week.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
Carey, I remember the ultimate flamefest over on the Atlas forum. It didn't exactly go well for the MTH guy...
 

blackz28

Well-Known Member
Well with mike putting out a video & MTH taking out a full page color ad
trying to dispell myths about MTH, something is going on.......
 




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