Long Island G-5 loco

ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.


azdiane

Member
Isam,

I'm confused about what you mean by "...the appropriate engine numbers were 30 through 50...." Appropriate for what?

Thanks for doing research.
:D

Diane



 
Diane:

In the photo you posted, what you're looking at are the weathered locos. The sun, wind, rain, snow, etc., have all affected the paint on the locos. What was once a nice glossy black is now a dirty black or weathered black. Add to the locos rust, dirt, dust, oil and grease stains-it all contributes to how the locos look.

Another factor which people forget about is the film used to take the photo and how it was processed and printed. However, that is a discussion for another time.

Photoman475
 

Milwaukee Road 113

Milwaukee Road addict...
Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner, I hope that you can read it anyway...

DSC_1320_zpssexywrek.jpg


DSC_1321_zpsaogqh1yj.jpg


DSC_1323_zpsbagvvdma.jpg


Source is Pennsy Power by Stauffer....quite a good book!

Edit: Almost missed this lass, G5s #29, built Juniata Shops for Long Island Railroad in '28....

IMG_20141108_040054_zpsele5xs8q.jpg


Same source as above...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
In that picture in the loco yard, the 2 closest locos have longer cabs and roofs than the ones behind. Modifications? Some are "Heavies" and others "Lights"?
 

wombat457

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I am a little late on this, but Welcome to the forums. As you have already discovered, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here all too willing to help.

Again, better late than never, was nice to see some one so enthusiastic about getting a model train ... just goes to show that n matter the age, we're all still kids at heart :)
 

azdiane

Member
pale gray

The similarity of the pale gray color on the locos makes me think it's not weathering but gray paint. Weathering is unique and individual, whereas these locos are all similar in color. Each loco does show signs of weathering on top of the gray paint. It just seems improbable to me that black would fade to pale gray so universally evenly. Too, the shade of gray is similar to the gray they were paining passenger cars with. Notice also that the locos' side rods are gray. The wheels probably were gray too, it's just buried under the grime. I think this was after Long Island RR separated from Pennsy.

I had never come across a "long cab" version of the G-5 before. Thanks for all the research, guys. Please keep it coming.

Hugs,
Diane
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Having a more overall look at that picture, I tend to agree that the color is too even to be caused by wear and tear etc.. Sure they're not clean, but the only one that shows any real weathering is the one in the foreground which appears to be in a state of possible cannibalisation. Note the rust showing through on the boiler, wheels etc, whereas the other clearly visible loco on the roundhouse track has dusty wheels but not particularly rusty.

Interestingly MILW113's book shows the side rods painted white by the looks.
 

Y3a

Stuck in the 1930's
When it was decided to retire a class of locos, they usually stopped cleaning all but the numbers, road name, and valve gear. Loco's were generally painted every 4-6 years or when they went in for major work. The harsh acids in coal soot and the moisture flowing down over them when that sat still dulled the paint and pitted it too. The traction sand would get into the pits and cause it to look more like a gray than that once pristine gloss black. PRR used a "Brunswick Green" which was "Four parts black and one part dark green" and this also lightened up a lot. I model the N&W in the 1930's and all their locos started out gloss black, and were cleaned sometimes 2-3 times a day with high pressure steam, blasting the soot, oils and such off the engines. They even mixed kerosene into it for cleaning the valve gear. remember too that the enamel paints of teh 1930's and 1940's pretty much sucked until after WWII. Anyway, you can see where some engines like the smaller power didn't get the attention the largest, most spectacular locos did, especially the passenger engines. Those small G'5's were not very good coal burners and produced a lot o soot just sitting there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Milwaukee Road 113

Milwaukee Road addict...
You're most welcome!

Just had a wee look at the Wikipedia, to see what they said, found this....


The G5s is one of the best preserved classes of Pennsy steam locomotives, with three surviving examples.

PRR 5741 - Selected by the PRR itself for preservation upon its retirement, currently on permanent static display in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. 5741 was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1979 as Freight Locomotive No. 5741.

LIRR 35 - Donated by the LIRR to Nassau County. 35 was displayed in Eisenhower Park until 1978, and is now based at the Oyster Bay Railroad Museum in Oyster Bay, NY. The museum is working to secure funding for the full restoration of the locomotive. This includes a conversion to oil firing, and possibly a new tender. Engine 35 was recently inspected by contractors from Steam Operations Corps, and thoroughly cleaned in preparation for the locomotive being shipped to Alabama for further restoration. It is currently sitting in pieces at the museum site.

LIRR 39 - Offered by the LIRR to Suffolk County, it was rejected by the Suffolk County Board of Supervisors in 1956. LIRR then offered #39 for display to the Carriage Museum in Stony Brook, New York (presently, The Long Island Museum of American Art, History & Carriages), where it was exhibited until 1980.

In 1980 the Project #39 Restoration Committee moved the locomotive to Riverhead, New York, for restoration. In 1992 the engine came under the care of the Railroad Museum of Long Island, (RMLI), based at Greenport and Riverhead, New York. The boiler and firebox is currently being restored at the Strasburg Railroad Company, Strasburg, Pennsylvania, while the rest of the locomotive remains at Riverhead.

In 2013 the RMLI initiated a nationwide fundraising effort to raise $900,000 dollars towards the restoration of the locomotive. The restoration included an agreement to lease it to the Strasburg Rail Road for a period of 48 years, with Strasburg Rail Road contributing over $1 million additional dollars towards its restoration. The locomotive may possibly be in full operation on the Strasburg Railroad in three to five years.
 

logandsawman

Well-Known Member
Isam,

Appropriate for what?

Thanks for doing research. [/COLOR]:D

Diane




The G-5 locomotives built for Long Island railroad only had the engine numbers 20 through 50. The locomotives in the photo of the roundhouse you posted showed locomotive numbers 117 and another unreadable number, but also 3 digits.

My research determined that these were not actually the same model as the G-5, though they do appear very similar. That would explain the different cab config. I found them made by a different locomotive shop, as referenced above, and at an earlier date. Must have been a predecessor to the g-5 of your PRR model, probably some mechanical changes made.

There is a lot of information on the web about the early steam manufacturers, and it takes some digging to find the locomotive rosters, but most of them are available.

hope this helps!! lasm
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Milwaukee Road 113

Milwaukee Road addict...
I think that the Long Island G5's also had bigger tenders than PRR's own machines, same size as their K4's, if I remember correctly....
 

azdiane

Member
Hubby tells me that by the mid to late 50s it was common to see Pennsylvania locomotives and cars, in their Pennsy livery, mixed seemingly randomly among Long Island equipment. Pennsy no longer owened the LIRR so I assume this was leased equipment. He was quite certain about this, which is why I felt comfortable letting the birthday loco stay in Pennsy livery. He says that other than the keystone logo on the smokebox front and the painted name on the tender these locos were visually identical anyway. He said as a kid he figured out he could tell which was which by the length of the tender, the LIRR locos having the longer "lines west" tender from Pennsy, and the PRR locos generally having the shorter "lines east" tender.

I wonder if the LIRR bought or leased additional G-5s, almost certainly from PRR, that are outside the 20 - 50 number range?

Oh to have a time machine....

@lasm That's mind bending. A locomotive that isn't a G-5 but except for the cab is indistinguishable from a G-5. That's enough to make a sober lady go to the bar. Thank you for the research.

Hugs,
Diane
 
Last edited by a moderator:

logandsawman

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the LIRR bought or leased additional G-5s, almost certainly from PRR, that are outside the 20 - 50 number range?

The numbers on the LIRR would have matched up with the rosters published. It is totally believable that similar designs were put together by different locomotive shops. However, the number stamped on the locomotive would certainly correspond to the recorded literature.

What surprised me was a model made in 1902 looks almost exactly like one made in 1926. Although, this was a remarkable design which provided exceptional tractive power, although reportedly was a rough riding locomotive.

In different models, they seemed to make all sorts of tweaks to the engine design to improve performance or reliability.

When I have more time later this week, I will provide the actual documents and dates where the supporting evidence is found.

Good job for an office day!! lasm
 

logandsawman

Well-Known Member
OK, now this has got me stumped. In all the other photographs of G-5 locomotives I have seen I have never before seen a second side-window in the cab, as appears to be what we are looking at on the two nearest locomotives. Anybody got a clue about this modification?




]

Here is the promised documentation on the mystery of the locomotives in post # 58. This page charts the locomotives in the photograph, a predecessor to the G5s produced from 1893 to 1901:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/ten-wheeler/?page=li

A synopsis of the pertinant information:

Long Island 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler type locomotives.jpg

Also, a page from the Altoona works roster with the G-5s:

Altoona works roster with G-5, PRR.png

Also, a page from the Juniata works roster, with some of the early G-5s and the famous PRR documentation:

Juniata Shops with LI entries, also famous PRR entry.png

Unbelievable what can be found on the internet. lasm
 




Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)


ModelRailroadForums.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com

RailroadBookstore.com - An online railroad bookstore featuring a curated selection of new and used railroad books. Railroad pictorials, railroad history, steam locomotives, passenger trains, modern railroading. Hundreds of titles available, most at discount prices! We also have a video and children's book section.

ModelRailroadBookstore.com - An online model railroad bookstore featuring a curated selection of new and used books. Layout design, track plans, scenery and structure building, wiring, DCC, Tinplate, Toy Trains, Price Guides and more.

Top