Local Hobby Shop Versus Internet


D

Dan Watkins

Member
Saw this subject discussed some time back but felt impelled to throw this out there.

I'm torn between buying local and going through the www route. I like to be able to buy something quickly when I need it even though the price is usually somewhat higher and I just plain like helping out the local shop. However, they sometimes make it really difficult to do so.

Two recent experiences -

One - I ordered a Walthers 90' Built Up Turntable from Cherry Creek. Great price and outstanding service. Arrived within 5 days of ordering (including a weekend). My local shop didn't stock it but could have ordered it for quite a bit more. No telling how long it would have taken (read on).

Two - Four weeks ago I ordered a package of Woodland Scenics deer from my LHS just because I wasn't in a big rush, I was there, and it seemed the right thing to do. Was just in there this morning buying some more turnouts and I asked about the deer order. They didn't have any record of it, didn't know if it had been placed, couldn't tell me when or if it might arrive. So, they placed a new one. I was so p----- off I almost told them not to bother, that I'd order online. However, I figured if I said that I might be forever banned from their store.

I couldn't help comparing the two experiences as I left. I WANT to support my LHS but with that kind of service, and their generally higher prices, I sometimes find it difficult to do so. If they could make up for their higher prices with superior service I would likely always buy from them but sometimes it's like they just don't care. In this day of competition from internet companies, I just don't get it when they aren't doing everything they can to earn your business and loyalty. Especially when I'd be more than willing to give it to them with some encouragement.

Sorry about the rant but I'm feeling really frustrated right now. I'm sure some of you out there know what I'm talking about. Or, perhaps your lucky enough to have a LHS that really cares about earning your business.

DW
 
Dan, I have no local hobby shop to get banned from. :) In many case, the LHS is a mom and pop outfit with very little capital and even less organization. When I did live near an LHS, it was common for them to "forget" orders or, even worse, have me pay in advance and then still "forget" to place the order. Not all the transactions I've had with on-line merchants have been smooth sailing either but they generally have better stock levels, better prices, and are infinitely better organized than Joe's Train Shop. I'd be happy to give the local guy some business (assuming there was one) but not at the cost of not getting what I need or, worse, being told "no problem" and then nothing ever happens.

Given the present economy, many local businesses that operate inefficiently are being shaken out. I suspect we are head toward a two tier system of buying in model railroading. One will be large shops in metropolitan areas that have the customer base to support both good selection and reasonable prices. The other will be on-line merchants. They will all eventually crossover. A good example is MB Klein, a large retail operation that also has a significant share of the on-line business as www.internettrainstuff.com. While I feel badly for the little guy, the economies of scale favor the large. I'm just happy to be able to still get things I need on-line since it's a 120 mile round trip to the nearest half ways decent train shop.
 
Here is my experience with LHS (and online). I have none really.

We had a hobby store just down the road but he never had train things aside from a set or 2. They don't do retail anymore, strictly internet sales I believe.

Other than that really I have Hobbytown USA. Too far for driving for the prices. I know there is a few others, but all out of my way.
 
Unfortunately, there is only one LHS locally that has a good N scale selection and one of the people (may actually be the owner) is kind of a butthead. So if not for the net, I probably would be forced to do HO or O scale.

The sad thing is I don't ever see a point in ordering anything from them since I could order something myself online and for less cost. I just wish MBKlien was my local shop.
 
My LHS is fairly well stocked with the smaller stuff such as track supplies, couplers, construction materials, scenery supplies, some decent motive power and rolling stock. It's just that I'd buy so much more from them if they made the effort in service and could provide reasonable prices on the large stuff.
DW

“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
Winston Churchill
 
I had two, with the better one an hour further away, and now closed for coming up to two years. The other one (ahem!) is only 45 minutes away, but they don't seem to be able to recall anything about me when I enter the store, and have no record of the two-pack Atlas coal hopper set I ordered twice on the phone and attempted to verifiy twice when I attended their shop in person. Seven months later, still no hoppers. I know they were released last spring.

Where do you suppose my valuable time and money go...to a duplicate of their attention to detail?

I don't think so! :mad:
 
I use to drive 55 miles to a train store in Sarasota,Fl. for a lot of stuff that I needed right away, but, I ordered some Loco's from him for a customer & he said they would be in about a week. After calling him a bunch of times & asking about the engines & then at the last minute told me he forgot to order them that was the last time I ever bought from a hobby shop. I buy everything on line now. I usually get an order w/in 2 weeks or less, get excellent customer service & don't get hasseled about what I "should buy" instead of what I ordered. I have 3 places that I do business with all the time & i always check prices on line before I place the order.
 
I still use the LHS due to when I want something, I want it now and I can see the actual product in front of me and know what I am buying. I really haven't bought anything off the internet for quite awhile now. One thing I know for sure is that when it comes to Customer Service, no matter what industry, Customer Service has been steadily declining. It seems like people just don't care anymore.
 
Many shop their LHS's with the reason it's to support them staying in business. Sorry Pal! I am not going to pay MSRP on top of an already inflated markup from the distributors and manufactures just to keep someone in a store front that has a way too expensive per foot rental. Yes, it is nice to have the eye candy when you are shopping in person, but money is just to tight to have that luxury. If one is in doubt about a product, you can always visit a shop and then order online, if they won't bargain with you. Better yet, inquire on a forum about the product and buy onliine.

Obviously, I buy online with the only exceptions being the under $20 stuff. My layout is large and my figures show that I have saved around $5,000 buying online.

I have to say to those that worry about an LHS staying in business and how it affects the hobby, you had better worry more about the NMRA losing membership each year. NMRA is the only reason you have quality MR products that are designed based on standards recommended by the membership SIGs. We lose the NMRA, we are completely at the mercy of the manufacturers. Had to include that ;):) .
 
Well I have to admit I like spending a Saturday shopping. So even if the owner may be a butthead, I still managed to spend $50 at his store today. A FMV box car, some paint and metal wheels. Then I went to another shop whose prices suck for the most part (Hobbytown) and spent another $30 on a mag, a book and a couple Terminal joiners.

So LHS do get my business, just nothing major.
 
Selector said:
I had two, with the better one an hour further away, and now closed for coming up to two years. The other one (ahem!) is only 45 minutes away, but they don't seem to be able to recall anything about me when I enter the store, and have no record of the two-pack Atlas coal hopper set I ordered twice on the phone and attempted to verifiy twice when I attended their shop in person. Seven months later, still no hoppers. I know they were released last spring.

Where do you suppose my valuable time and money go...to a duplicate of their attention to detail?

I don't think so! :mad:
Click to expand...

That is the thing--There used to be a concept that was acted upon---it was something called CUSTOMER SERVICE Now we got --"I don' wanna". :confused::mad:

I remember a store I used to go to when I was younger whose owner--who had to have seen hundreds of people in a day--would call me over to the counter and show me a Corgi car or truck that I was looking for. And this after a month of not showing up at the store.:):p

Thankfully there are a few around here that are owned by people who keep customer service in their business model :):)
 
LHS Prices

RexHea said:
Many shop their LHS's with the reason it's to support them staying in business. Sorry Pal! I am not going to pay MSRP on top of an already inflated markup from the distributors and manufactures just to keep someone in a store front that has a way too expensive per foot rental. Yes, it is nice to have the eye candy when you are shopping in person, but money is just to tight to have that luxury. If one is in doubt about a product, you can always visit a shop and then order online, if they won't bargain with you. Better yet, inquire on a forum about the product and buy onliine.
Click to expand...

I have to agree; neither of my local dealers are willing to deal or give a discount; even when I am prepared tp spend $2k - in cash! I can get better deals online or at the train shows (especially on the last show day). I've experienced the same problem with placing orders and never having them come in. My local dealers seem to be somewhat offended that I am not willing to buy what they personally selected to have in stock.

When I lived in Germany, I never had a local dealer react like that; perhaps that's why the LHS business in Europe is still thriving, even with the advent of the internet retailers.

RexHea said:
Obviously, I buy online with the only exceptions being the under $20 stuff. My layout is large and my figures show that I have saved around $5,000 buying online.
Click to expand...

I've even found online retailers that will bargain when you're going to place a large order. Generally speaking, the online dealers that I have encountered are acting like they actually want your business!

RexHea said:
I have to say to those that worry about an LHS staying in business and how it affects the hobby, you had better worry more about the NMRA losing membership each year. NMRA is the only reason you have quality MR products that are designed based on standards recommended by the membership SIGs. We lose the NMRA, we are completely at the mercy of the manufacturers. Had to include that ;):) .
Click to expand...

I model European Railways, and even though I am a member of the NMRA, I'm not sure how much their existence contributes to the so-called 'standards' of the hobby. If I was to compare the impact of standards, the NEM standards seem to have a larger impact on European manufacturers without the need for hobbyist membership. (Frankly, I subscribe to NMRA Scale Rails just to have something else to read!)

David
 
Our Goal is to provide our online and local customers with the same great service and prices. White Rose Hobbies started initially as a DCC installer. We plan on becoming a reliable source for DCC and all other model railroad supplies. We have been working hard over the last few months to build relationships with suppliers and have been adding products almost everyday.

We have been working hard on our website to make it one of the most easy to use model train websites. We have been making every attempt to add as much information about the products that we can giving our online customers at least as much information as if they had the box in their hands and more!

We have some great plans lined up for the next few months! I will let everyone know when our retail storefront is open for business. We have been working on getting it stocked up!

As always shoot any questions to info@dccinstalled.com and we will get back to you asap!
 
I try to support my LHS as much as possible, but that is usually through pre-orders or purchasing small items like couplers, paint and glue. I also shop for deals online and at the occasional show.

I like having a LHS for those emergency purchases, like when I break that #80 drill bit on the second last hole and need another one fast!

I've also got another LHS (about 45min away) that I got to as much for the social aspect of hanging out with fellow modelers, as to buy things.

My personal opinion is we all have to take a step back from the "more for less" mentality and realize that short falls of current business practices are a result of that mentality. Stores have to cut corners to try and save money on staff and services so that they can drop prices for the consumer.
 
I must respectfully disagree with your premise, CP302. Accounting for natural variance from business to business in a given sector of the economy, the first principle of business is always that the customer determines what is acceptable and what isn't. You sound like an apologist for the deflating Mom's & Pops's where those two have handed over the store to their grandson, whose values are not theirs, and said, "Try to make a go of it, but make sure you get paid first. Also, don't do more or treat your customers with any more respect than you feel you want to." This is what I feel I encountered at the place closest to me. Even when I stood opposite the counter, in person, and asked about the order, the answer was, "The person who does the ordering isn't in. I'll have her phone you tomorrow." No phone call....ever. Twice!!!!! This can't be blamed on second-rate staff because the store owner was the person who offered to have the parts ordering person call me. If the responsibility rests with leadership, and the leadership/owner was the person with whom I left my query, how can the absence of the follow-up phone call be blamed on the subordinate....the second time it happened?!

Sorry, but the store owner/manager either runs a good business or he/she doesn't. If it is a good business, customers are welcomed and accorded due deference...and diligence. It is the very reason that I patronized the more distant store. He knew me by name and darned well ordered stuff when he said he would. Additionally, because he was of that orientation, he was a very busy (successful) businessman....people were always in the store, waiting patiently for a piece of him. The closer place has flies. They're patient as well....:D

-Crandell
 
I tend to agree with you on this Selector. My original premise was that with the competition from the internet, the LHS should be trying even harder to make up for it with superior service. Yes, they are convenient for the little things. That's one of the main reasons I try and give them as much as my business as possible. However, it's the big ticket items where they lose their best sales. Even if they were priced a little bit more, but still reasonable, I'd buy from them to help keep them around. I don't believe in always shopping just price.

After teaching for over thirty years, I retired and started operating a small (just myself) interior painting business. Figured I'd be doing a couple of small jobs a month. Turned out to have exploded into more than I ever imagined - even with the economy the way it is. Though I'm not the least expensive guy around, why am I busy when other outfits in the area are sitting around twiddling their thumbs? I think that besides being good technically (most of the other outfits are too), I go out of my way to stress service (communicating, timeliness, being respectful of people's property, cleaning up thoroughly every day, etc.) in other words, doing things that make my business stand out from many of the others but SHOULD be SOP for any similar business. I've listened to the complaints I hear from clients about other painters in town and make sure I don't commit those same mistakes myself.

This can be applied to the hobby industry. The LHS can still do very well if they just make the effort to take care of their customers, make them feel valued, and make sure their prices won't immediately scare everybody away.

DW

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
 
Dan on LHS

Dan is correct! All the LHS has to do is treat their customers like they are appreciated, give good communications, and pass along some sort of discount - especially when the customer is spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars at a whack. The customers will stay loyal for the pleasure of being able to see, touch, and buy on the spot.

Here in NJ, EuroModelTrains gives a standard discount based on cumulative purchases and will take off another good percentage when paying cash. Of course, most of his volume in via his website. But Michael communicates, places orders without fail, and earns his business.

Another LHS, in PA, ignored me, even when I came to the register with a head-high stack of Kibri and Marklin items that had so much dust on the shelves that you could write your name on the boxes. (They'd been sitting their for years - literally.) When I finally got this jerk's attention, and asked for a cash discount, one would think that I asked to sleep with his wife! (We're talking about a $900 purchase, on items that he probably bought from the distributor years ago; all were discontinued items.)

Two years later, he is out of business. I never went back, even for his Going Out of Business Sale.

Of course, there are online dealers that aren't worth a toot either. They act just like their poor LHS counterparts. I won't partake of them either. I spend $4k per month on this, my only hobby. I'm not asking to have red carpet rolled out or my entering the store announced like some Grand Poobah; just appreciate my business, place my orders, and give me competitive pricing.

David
 
i love my lhs the guys are really nice helpfull and have donated a ton of stuff to our club beats online by a long shot
plus its prabably the same or cheaper than caboose without the hour long drive.
 
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My LHS is three miles away in White Oak, PA, but the stock runs more to O-Guage Lionel, RC, and slot car enthusiasts. There isn't much to choose from when it comes to HO, and they don't carry any rolling stock or engines. I visited there a few times, but left empty-handed.

The next-closest shop is in Jeanette, PA, a 60 mile round trip. I have heard good things about this shop, and will visit there some day.

The majority of my buying has been either online or eBay.
 
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