Lionel Files Chapter 11

[Coffee]

Lionel

Hopefully they can recover, regroup and come out strong. The case that prompted the filing can be found here, MTH Sues Lionel

 

[modelbob]

Posted here 3:50 PM my time.

Recieved from Classic Toy Trains Newswire 8:00 PM my time.

Scooped CTT by over 4 hours, way to go Ed!

 

[mushroom2]

This time it wasn't me. I did know 3 weeks ago (but couldn't say anything) that if the judge let the verdict stand that Lionel had the plans to file ready to go. And with the judge trying these kind of cases for the last 40 years, there was no way he was going to allow a mistake (or at least admit to one) which was the only reason he could have overturned the verdict. So Lionel joins Koean Brass with restructuring and weaseling out of paying any money for profiting from stolen plans. But this just clears the way for the next lawsuit from MTH regarding some patent issues. Stay tuned, the soap operas ain't over yet.

 

[modelbob]

> This time it wasn't me...

I thought Coffee's real name was Ed too, though I'm not sure why I think that?

 

[mushroom2]

Rob, Ed, ahhhh close enough

 

[CBCNSfan]

I'm certainly no lawyer, but even as a layperson I can see this is not going to be setteled anytime in the near future. I guess to understand this better I have a question.
1- Has it been proven that Lionel purchased the info knowing it was stolen? or were in collusion with the others to obtain the info or whatever? If it has then it's about all over except the crying.
2- If Lionel can prove the purchase was above board, then it's a whole new ballgame. They will certainly have to pay MTH for the use of the info and royaltys on items already sold, in addition will have to stop producing the items unless under license from MTH

Would be a shame to lose an important manufacturer at this time, especially when it looks like a lot of the better ones are being bought up by some larger corporations.

Don't want to get anyone's goat, but does anyone remember Heathkit, Allied Radio, Radio Shack, they were great sources of electronic kits and parts, and components? Well they were all purchased in that order by the Tandy Leather Co. and we now have Radio Shack aint it wonderfull?
Cheers Willis

 

[Coffee]

Rob, Ed, ahhhh close enough

I'm the better looking of the two.

Rob

 

[Coffee]

I'm certainly no lawyer, but even as a layperson I can see this is not going to be setteled anytime in the near future. Willis

Actually Willis, the jury on Oct 4th decided in favor of Mike's Train House. The judge gave little chance of appeal unless at a higher court on Oct 21st. This new development has me wondering, does Lionel intend not to appeal now or just file chapter 11, reorganize and then appeal at a later date? There's a time restraint for appeals but am I not a lawyer either. Does filing chapter 11 save a company in settling a lawsuit, in other words, does it protect Lionel from paying out the 40 mil?

 

[Peter-f]

In short- (as I understand the law - and I have no expertise in bankruptcy law) a criminal act cannot be shielded using a court.

Knowingly using stolen information (or that which one should recognize as stolen) is cause for damages... as is speeding through the red light.
As for limitations: murder (for one) has no statute of limitations, and similarly, commercial damage claims cannot be denied by hiding in bankruptcy.
(again... as far as I know)

There are more threads on the Atlasrr.com forums... atlas 'O' and HO.

 

[CBCNSfan]

Hi Folks, I guess what I'm getting at is Has Lionel been proven as being a partner ( knowingly) to the theft of the technology, if so they may file what they like, but they will have to pay one way or the other, However if they were also a victim by not knowingly purchasing the stolen technology, they will still have to pay MTH damages which may be less than the present award this again would depend on a court.
If I understand the above messages, this route has been already exhausted.
I believe in this country we have a similar law to the chapter 11. In it the company has to file with the court within a defined time period, a plan on restructuring, outlining how it's debts can be paid. Air Canada has just gone through this lately and they are still flying, we don't hear too much so it's creditors must be satisfied. I guess that is another possibility, and it would be safe to assume that the creditors would also have to agree with the plan.
Cheers Willis

 

[mushroom2]

One of the problems is that in order to file an appeal, Lionel has to put in escrow an amount equal to the award. Lionel does not have assets that equal the award, so how they are going to file an appeal ought to involve some interesting accounting.

 

[CBCNSfan]

I finaly caught a link on this lawsuit over at the Atlas. I could be wrong, but it appears that the only avenue that will be open to Lionel would be, sale of stock for enough cash, restructuring, with a feasible plan documented in the court on how they will pay the damage award to MTH, and that's if that option is available in the US. Other than that I guess the sheriff moves in with the liquidators if some good samaritan doesn't inject enough cash into Lionel ( new owners) then that's the end, as I see it. But then again I don't know the corporate laws of this country let alone those of the US

Cheers Willis

 

[CBCNSfan]

Addendum!!
Just read that K-Mart in the US has just purchased Sears Roebuck for 11 Billion, this only about a year after K-Mart had filed for bankruptcy protection, now making them the 3rd largest retailer in the US, after Wal Mart and Home Depot. I wonder how this came about?

Cheers Willis

 

[Coffee]

Addendum!!
Just read that K-Mart in the US has just purchased Sears Roebuck for 11 Billion, this only about a year after K-Mart had filed for bankruptcy protection, now making them the 3rd largest retailer in the US, after Wal Mart and Home Depot. I wonder how this came about?

Cheers Willis

The early release of the Martha Stewart Prison Blue's Collection I'm sure. Sure to be a big item for the holidays.

 

[sushob]

I'm not sure who to laugh at first...Lionel or Martha Stewart. I generally don't like big companies (as my family owns a small machine shop and I know first hand it's hard to survive in the world of big business), so I'm more ammused at this than anything...