Layout Design Help Needed


Bob it's a big improvement over what you had before. However it appears somewhat symetrical which is what you wanted to avoid. There is also a lot of unused space in the center that's begging for attention. I'm not sure of how you intend to fit that engine service center in, looks kind of out of place so might as well make that viewing area also. Just how much height do you have on that shelf where you have two levels of trackage?
I'm also confused about the center tracks in the upper drawing, Where do they decend to, and what do they connect too? The drawing of the lower trackage suggests that it's two tracks connect to the visible trackage at the duckunder.
Cheers Willis
 
Overall I think it's quite workable, and solves the problem of the staging being inaccessible behind the terminal. You do lose a visible coachyard, although maybe you can squeeze a pocket sized one inside the balloon.

The big "fatal flaw" to watch for now is the grade. Factor in that you are only pulling relatively short passenger trains, however, so the grade could be fairly steep. But the thing that is more critical is getting enough height difference between the passenger terminal and the staging beneath, so it doesn't require someone with 1" diameter wrists to get into the latter if something derails.

I like how this is looking however, it's feeling a lot more like a finished layout design. May I recommend a dummy double track diamond near the left throat of the yard, protected by a tower?
 
> However it appears somewhat symetrical which
> is what you wanted to avoid.

Well the left side is now less symmetrical, and I may make other changes to avoid that.

On the other hand, it is a shelf layout which limits my options somewhat. Also, since I'm modeling the PRR mainline, having it be relatively straight is OK.

> There is also a lot of unused space in the center
> that's begging for attention.

That comes in later. Think of this right now as simply a 'back of the envelope' design, or sketching things out with Armstrong Squares or whatever. It's far from final, we're merely at the "proof of concept stage.

A couple options are obvious for that area.

1) Put in a mine branch, as ABC shows on one of his drawings.

2) Put in a coach yard, with all the servicing facilities needed.

3) Put in a steel mill, to give it that "Pittsburgh flavor"

A long thin linear space would work well for any of those....

> I'm not sure of how you intend to fit that engine service
> center in, looks kind of out of place so might as well make
> that viewing area also.

Not really an option. I have filing cabinets and storage below that, so it's not going to be open space no matter what. If I make it a roundhouse, folks can walk over and view the locomotives. Then again, this layout isn't going to be seen by a lot of folks, just a few friends, so the main concern is for the operator.

> Just how much height do you have on that shelf where
> you have two levels of trackage?

About two feet total, maybe more. If I make the lower staging only about 6 inches high (which keeps the grade down too) that's lot of room.

> I'm also confused about the center tracks in the upper drawing

They're going down to connect to the staging tracks that come up. See my revised sketch for one option. Another option is to have one set swing far to the right, while the other is to the left, and have them join in a more traditional junction.
 
> Overall I think it's quite workable,

Great, thanks.

>Solves the problem of the staging being inaccessible behind the terminal.

Yes, it does that well.

> You do lose a visible coachyard

Maybe... I could easily make the hidden storage visible, and probably will. Granted, the "sky" will be low, but you'll be able to see in there.

Another option is to put something in the center, or even use a one foot wide shelf in front of the depot area.

> The big "fatal flaw" to watch for now is the grade.

Yes and that's why this is being done in 3rd Planit. So far the grades are coming out to be reasonable, in the 2 to 3 percent range. Consider how many HO plans have a figure 8 where the tracks go up and over. Now consider that this layout, while looking like a 4 x 8, is actually 10 x 17. You can gain or lose a lot of elevation in 8 feet on a reasonable grade.

However, the Cad program is taking the guesswork out of that, and telling me what my grades actually are. (As well as making sure the curves fit and those long number 8 turnouts I like and etc etc)

> But the thing that is more critical is getting enough
> height difference between the passenger terminal
> and the staging beneath, so it doesn't require someone
> with 1" diameter wrists to get into the latter if something derails.

I'm shooting for 6 to 8 inches, which I need to try and also need to be sure it's realistic grade-wise.

> May I recommend a dummy double track diamond near
> the left throat of the yard, protected by a tower?

No, you may not. :) You may recommend an actual working crossover however, and that as well as many other options will be considered once I get the basic concept down, i.e. are there turnback loops, if so where, what are the ruling grades, can this all fit, etc.

Oh, wait, you said diamond, I was thinking crossover... Yes, that would be an option...
 
if so where, what are the ruling grades,
Well here's a bit of info, may be usless but it's from my follies and experimentation. from one of the lowest points of track to one of the highest points of track. The measurement is 1 ft. The bottom grade is a mainline and none of my Athearns have any problem with an 11 car train on 4.17% grade The upper grade of 5.6% is a little more difficult. The Athearns with the brass flywheels slow a bit but have no problem. The older ones with the larger size motors and flywheels seem to work harder, in fact one got a little smelly after 5 or six runs. Oh and 10 car maximum on the upper.
I also have to say these cars were right out of the box and are certainly not top of the line ( Bachmann, LifeLike, Tyco ect ) in fact the whole train wouldn't roll down the grade on its own without a gentle push ( Reboxx reamer and some wheels ordered :) ) Just a suggestion, but a height adjustable incline might be a way to determine the limitations for grades.
Cheers Willis
 
OK, here's today's revisions. (I'm spending way too much time on this thing at the moment...)

I've cleaned up the junction area on the right side. Instead of hiding it, why not make it part of the scene? I'll put a tower there and have it be part of the Pennsy flavor by using a typical PRR tower.

The track to the staging can disappear into a tunnel. If I'm lucky, I can place the tunnel portal in a way that hides the fact the track is curving, making it look like it's going someplace else.

The rest of it is the same as before. With the elevations added now, you can see how the track climbs up from staging as it circles the room.

Looks like I can get about 8 inches of seperation between the layers. Not a lot, but even with the plywood for the upper level I'll easily have over 6 inches of clearance. That should work out OK.

I've got plenty more fine tuning to do, but the basic concept look reasonable...

1) The latest plan view

2) The confusing junction between upper and lower levels

3) An overview of the layout.
 
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This is the first time I've played with the topography option, so this looks more like the Rockies than the Appalachians. Also, I've not yet mastered how to build a tunnel portal.

However, it gives you some rough idea of what this area would look like.

I really like the looks of that wide radius (4 foot or so...) curve.
 
abcraghead said:
Hmm... Freighthouse Square in HO? :p

LOL! No, as you can see from my latest, the lower track wouldn't be visible for the most part, it would look like it's going straight ahead. The loop track would climb up a fill/trestle and cross over the main. I think the scene would look much more realistic with the scenery in place.
 
Hi Bob, well it looks real good now. Nice drawing prog you have, I downloaded the Xtrack prog. fooled around with it a bit but can't even get the templates to stay on the drawing, so I'm back to the trial and error method because I'll have the layout finished before I ever learn to use one of them programs.
Cheers Willis
 
modelbob said:
LOL! No, as you can see from my latest, the lower track wouldn't be visible for the most part, it would look like it's going straight ahead. The loop track would climb up a fill/trestle and cross over the main. I think the scene would look much more realistic with the scenery in place.

What about disguising it as some kind of flying junction instead? Those were very Pennsy.
 
abcraghead said:
What about disguising it as some kind of flying junction instead? Those were very Pennsy.

I've got one of those too, at the East end of the station. The outer two tracks go to the loop, the inner two drop down to the main. While I don't show it on the plan, I may modify it to be more PRR style, with one of the tracks crossing over another or something. I need to do a bit more research.

(OK, it's a very short section of 4 tracks, but hey, it's there... )
 
Version 2.0

This is a revised design for my garage layout.


I've spent quite a bit of time reviewing various ideas and trying lots of concepts. During that time, a few of things became obvious.


1) While I could come up with all kinds of designs for double deck layouts etc, I don't have space for that without interfering with the storage that the space is also used for.


2) It's taken me over a month to come up with a revised plan I like. Granted, that takes time, but it also points out that I don't have time to build and operate an overly complex layout.


3) Viewing the existing space and what I have built now helped me eliminate some of the ideas I had as well as come up with this one. A lot of that was based on shelving and other uses in the room.


4) The passenger station will be the focal point of the layout. The building I'm considering using will cost a couple hundred dollars or more. Add in 2 or 3 passenger trains and you're looking at some serious bucks... If/when I get around to buying and building this stuff, do I really want it hidden 10 feet away from the typical viewer? Having it up front seems more logical to me. It can also easily tie into the industrial town shown.


5) Having some added routes and the ability to turn entire trains is important. Most of my original plans were just an oval with a couple sidings. That gets boring pretty quickly. This plan at least gives some alternates, and the working yard, along with a planned branchline, will add some operational interest.
 
PS - This plan is also still preliminary. I'm open to comments, suggestions and ideas. Right now I'm simply trying to get the basic mainline configuration designed, then I'll finalize the yards and industries etc.

I still plan on adding a branch line that will be over the top of the upper right staging tracks, and possibly some other industry tracks etc.

So, comments and suggestions are welcome.
 
Okay, perhaps I'm just missing something, but how do you get to the staging area? Is there access from the other side (the top of the diagram)?
 
sushob said:
Okay, perhaps I'm just missing something, but how do you get to the staging area? Is there access from the other side (the top of the diagram)?

Access to the turnouts will be via the square hole marked "access". For the rest of it, there's about a 3 foot reach to get there. Long, but not out of the question. I really don't anticipate needing to get in there too often.

I plan on using a couple of "tricks" too. All staging track will be code 100 since it's sturdier. Also, each end of each track will be equipped with one of those snap track crossing/rerailers, to solve small derailments which are the most common problem. The curve on the right side is a nice wide radius, which will also help. The track is on a slight downgrade to the left, meaning that backing in will be less likely to derail.

During construction, this area will be thoroughly tested. If needed, I'll make provisions for additional access. Another option is to build something that straddles the yard so I can access the staging tracks. The way the tracks are arranged it would be easy to have something like an L shape ladder (picture something like a swim ladder on a boat) to allow access while protecting the yard.

If the layout ever gets scenicked, there would be a removable backdrop there, though I may well just let it sort of "fade to black" in that area, with the cars in the staging area forming a backdrop of their own.
 
Are you planning on going DCC or staying with DC. You have some serious reverse loops going there that might make operation and wiring rather interesting.
 
mushroom2 said:
Are you planning on going DCC or staying with DC. You have some serious reverse loops going there that might make operation and wiring rather interesting.

Right now there are only two reversing sections, the two curves. I have no problem wiring these up with DC. I use a control panel with a track schematic. You control direction with a DPDT toggle for each section. I've used it on previous layouts and it works fine.

Now DCC is another story. I don't know how you handle revers loops in DCC, so I guess I'll need to research that some more. I seem to recall they have automatic controls to handle them, but I don't know any details.
 
PS - Right now I'm gving some serious consideration to using a modified version of my old control system. It used two DPDT toggles. One chose which transformer controlled the section, the second controlled the direction.

I think I could do the same thing now, and have one of the two settings be for DCC while the other selects conventional DCC. I recently saw an article in one of the model mags (now where did I put that!?!) about a system that allowed a club to use both systems. It seemed a lot more complicated though, not sure why...
 



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