Just for Fun - Facts in Five

[Iron Horseman]

It is the most complete list that I could find.

I didn't find a list either. I had compiled my own. That is why I didn't have the ones from the turn of the 20th century like the Mississippi River & Bonne Terre and St. Louis, Iron Mountain, & Southern. I didn't go back that far. I got many of my list from a DVD entitled something like "Classic St. Louis Railroading" as obviously they caught a lot of the passenger traffic to/from the station.

the terminal railroad wasn't the Illinois Terminal System, but rather the Terminal Railroad Association (TRRA).

You might be right about the Illinois Terminal Association, because I don't have that on my list and know nothing about it, but the TRRA would not count. It served the station with switching duties, but did not have a train which was served by the station. TRRA had no passenger trains.

There was also a. East St. Louis Merchant's Railroad that would have operated by and around the station but would never have had a train to/from it.

Some quick research on the C&O shows they had run through cars coming in from apparently Cincinnati, but I said run throughs didn't count.

Then, does anyone know on who's track the Nickel Plate Blue Arrows crossed the river from East St. Louis?

 

[dinwitty]

one single station? Not sure if any one Chicago station wins but if you group all the nearby stations together chicago wins. One station could not handle all of the railroads.

 

[JWhite]

Originally Posted by Iron HorsemanThen, does anyone know on who's track the Nickel Plate Blue Arrows crossed the river from East St. Louis?

According to Trackside Around St Louis 1952-1959 with Jim Ozment Nickle Plate trains 9 and 10 ran via Bridge Junction and the TRRA Venice Line to Relay Junction and then across the Eads Bridge into St Louis.

 

[Iron Horseman]

According to Trackside Around St Louis 1952-1959 with Jim Ozment Nickle Plate trains 9 and 10 ran via Bridge Junction and the TRRA Venice Line to Relay Junction and then across the Eads Bridge into St Louis.

Interesting. Does that book have a list of the railroads that used the MacArthur Bridge? It always seemed to me that was a much more direct route than Eads.

 

[Iron Horseman]

one single station? Not sure if any one Chicago station wins but if you group all the nearby stations together chicago wins. One station could not handle all of the railroads.

We have talked about Chicago a lot so perhaps we can assemble a list of which railroads belong to which stations.... I'll start off the top of my head and we can add what people know until we get a full list. An all inclusive list would have to include dates as some railroads would switch which station was used.

Union Station - Pennsy, Burlington (and therefore Great Northern and Northern Pacific), Milwalkee, Alton
Central Station - Illinois Central, South Shore, Michigan Central, the big 4 (CCC&StL), Indiana Harbor Belt and for a time Soo
Dearborn (Polk Street) - C&EI, Erie, Santa Fe, GTW(the last ones to run steam into the station), Monon, Wabash, and the commuters umm Chicago & Western Indiana,
Grand Central - Soo, Wisconsin Central, B&O, C&O, Pierre Marquette, Chicago Great Western
Chicago Northwestern - Chicago & North Western, Union Pacific
LaSalle Street - New York Central, Rock Island

That is only 28, Hmm, obviously missing most of the intercities plus I'm missing the GM&O where does it go? Nickel Plate or did it ride on Wabash into Chicago.

 

[santafewillie]

I believe that Nickel Plate used LaSalle Station. I also think that Erie (later Erie Lackawanna) used Dearborn. That's all I can add.
Willie

 

[JWhite]

Originally Posted by Iron Horseman Does that book have a list of the railroads that used the MacArthur Bridge? It always seemed to me that was a much more direct route than Eads.

The Terminal Railroad Association of St Louis TRRA was formed by the B&O, CB&Q, Rock Island, Big Four (NYC), GM&O, IC, L&N, MKT, MP, Pennsylvania, SL-SF (Frisco), St Louis Southwestern (Cotton Belt), Southern and Wabash. It had connections to all railroads into St Louis on both sides to the river and handled all of the interchange traffic. It owned and operated Union Station and in conjunction with the Merchant's Bridge Terminal provided the passenger train routes into Union Station. It also provided yards and service facilities at 14th Street to service passenger equipment in and out of Union Station.

Bridges from Illinois into the St Louis area are (listed North to South): Alton Bridge, TRRA Merchant's Bridge, McKinley Bridge (owned by the Illinois Terminal Railroad), TRRA Eads Bridge and the MacArthur Bridge (owned by the city of St Louis.
This is what my research has turned up on traffic crossing the Mississippi into St Louis:

MacArthur Bridge
Alton & Southern
Missouri Pacific
Pennsylvania
,
Eads Bridge
Baltimore and Ohio
Big Four (New York Central)
L&N (Passenger only)

Merchants Bridge
C&EI
Chicago & North Western
CB&Q (Mark Twain Zephyr to avoid riverfront industrial tracks)
GM&O (Passenger only, GM&O had no trackage on the West side of the river)
Wabash

Alton Bridge
CB&Q

McKinley Bridge
IC
Illinois Terminal

I'm guessing that most of the traffic into Union Station went across the Merchants and Eads bridges was because the TRRA owned those two bridges. Amtrak uses the MacArthur bridge into the Amtrak station that is not part of Union Station. Bi State Development Agency's Metrolink trains use the railroad deck on the Eads bridge these days.

My great uncle George was a switchman on the TRRA when I was a boy and I got my first cab ride in a TRRA switcher when I was about 8.

 

[Sirfoldalot]

OK ... I'm a little lost at the moment. I thought that the SSW (Cotton Belt) ran down the East side of the river to a point around the Cape where it crossed over to the West side. If this is true, then it would have to use one of those bridges too.

 

[JWhite]

This is what the book says about the Cotton Belt:

The Cotton Belt, a Southern Pacific subsidiary, almost went out of it's way to be anonymous in the St Louis area. Operating over Missouri Pacific trackage from the Mississippi crossing at Thebes Illinois, it came into town over the Mopac's Chester Subdivision to Valley Junction, north of Dupo. At Valley Junction, Cotton Belt freights headed east to Valley Yard, their yard and engine terminal, nestled between Illinois Central's "B" yard and Alton & Southern's Davis Yard. Passenger trains went west at Valley Junction to Union Station. Passenger units, two PA1s, a GP7 and an FP7, were serviced by the TRRA at Fourteenth Street.

Cotton Belt freight heading west into St Louis would have been moved by the TRRA. Looking at the map, the Cotton Belt passenger trains would have taken the McKinley bridge from Valley Junction into Union Station.

 

[Iron Horseman]

OK ... I'm a little lost at the moment. I thought that the SSW (Cotton Belt) ran down the East side of the river to a point around the Cape where it crossed over to the West side.

I believe you are also correct. I remember when I was leaving on vacation on I-55 and seeing Cotton Belt trains running with two SW1500s on the point down along the east bank of the river. I remember being surprised at the time because despite having living down town in St. Louis for a few years I had never seen a bloody nose loco anywhere about. The bridge they were approaching was south of Cape Girardeau (as the quote that JWhite found at "Thebes"). I wonder if we have a time period issue. I lived there long after passenger service.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I've still not seen any guesses as to what was unique about the all the trains of St. Louis Union Station before Amtrak. The only exception to this was a joint Pennsy, Mopac operation in the 1940s.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I've still not seen any guesses as to what was unique about the all the trains of St. Louis Union Station before Amtrak. The only exception to this was a joint Pennsy, Mopac operation in the 1940s.

Well, I was suspect that this thread wouldn't get far despite a good start. So I'll answer the question and let it die....

Up until Amtrak, all trains serviced by St. Louis Union Station either originated or terminated there. It was not a "station stop" on the way from somewhere to somewhere else. True, some of this was due to the fact that passing by trains didn't come to the station, but used connectors. One example is the Illinois Central connection train that ran from St. Louis Union Station to Carbondale where it met and transferred cars/passengers with the "City of New Orleans" train.