Just for Fun - Facts in Five


Iron Horseman

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
I've always enjoyed learning about general railroad information. I have also always enjoyed educated guessing / logical types of games. Unfortunately the internet has made looking up information so easy, the sort of guessing games one can do on a forum such as this seems to make questions either too easy or way too hard.

Regardless, I am in a mood and want to try it. Here is how I want this to go. I'm going to post a question about general railroading in the USA, Canada, and Mexico (sorry, I know very little about other continents railroads). I would like people to post educated guesses what they think the answer is. Sometime after we get a correct answer I would like to discuss a bit about the topic both the answer to the question and other info related to it. Hopefully make it a fun and educational thread for all to enjoy. I say "sometime" after we get a correct answer, just in case the first answer posted is correct. Otherwise we might not have anything to discuss. Likewise if someone else has posted the answer you think is right you can say "I think that too". This isn't a race to be "first". This could be a very interesting long running thread or it might not last the week. Lets see.

So here is the first question:

At the height of passenger train service in the USA (1936-1952) what station in the USA and Canada was the largest? Largest here is in terms of number of railroads served. Not largest number of passengers. Not largest square footage or acres of land consumed. REA, USPS, and other express agency's do not count as a railroad served. Commuter type railroads do count. All railroads that use the station count, even if they arrive at the station via another railroad's tracks. Run through cars on another railroad's train do not count (eg. even though Pennsy cars came through Denver on the California Limited - Denver Union did not serve Pennsy). We need the station name here not just a city name.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know nothing about Canadian stations. I would hazard a guess that Chicago's Union Station was one with a large number of railroads served. Can't quote figures, but as a kid, I remember seeing Burlington Route, Pennsylvania, Great Northern (serviced by the Q), and a bunch of others. It's only been about 65 years or so...
 
At one time, Union Station in Dallas TX hosted eight railroads: Texas & Pacific Railway (T&P), Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway (ATSF), St. Louis Southwestern Railway (Cotton Belt) (SSW), Fort Worth & Denver Railway (FW&D), Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad (Rock Island)(RI), St. Louis and San Francisco Railway (Frisco)(SLSF), Missouri–Kansas–Texas Railroad (Katy)(MKT), and Southern Pacific Railroad (SP). This was all under one roof. I think that Chicago was serviced by multiple passenger stations, so no single terminal serviced too many.

Willie
 
Last edited by a moderator:
St Louis Union Station. At it's peak, over 20 railroads dropped by. It also had a very complicated wye setup at it's entrance.
 
I was gonna guess Chicago Union Station, but Sunset Limited's answer sounds like it's credible to me. I honestly don't know, though.
 
santafewillie said:
I think that Chicago was serviced by multiple passenger stations, so no single terminal serviced too many.
Click to expand...
Chicago is a good guess. But Willie's note is true. Chicago definitely was served by more railroads than any other (31 I believe - can anyone name them? Not me.), however those railroads were served out of six stations. Union Station, Central Station, Dearborn, Grand Central, Northwestern (Wells Street), and LaSalle Street. Chicago had more major stations than any other city.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm trying to type in the dark, so may be a lot of typos ... but, I would have to side with St Louis Union Station for mu pick.
 
OldGuyHO said:
My vote is for Chicago. However, if you count commuter trains, NY Grand Central might be in the running.
Click to expand...

Between 1936 and 1952, commuter services were mostly operated by the bigger railroad companies like the CRI&P or SP. Local funding and separate companies is really a post-1970s thing. That means that regardless of whether there was commuter traffic or not, the number of railroads that accessed the terminals would generally remain the same. Even counting the present-day commuter railroads, cities like New York City would still only see a handful of railroads.

Between 1936 and 1952, this would have realistically been the New York Central, Pennsylvania Railroad, New Haven, Central of New Jersey, and perhaps a couple of others. These railroads were also spread across Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station which lowers the number of railroads operating out of a single terminal further still.

Chicago is in a similar situation. Between Dearborn, Union, Central and others, the amount of operational railroads per terminal is probably in the single digits.

St Louis was a massive interchange for passengers, and St Louis Union Terminal served 22 individual railroads, to be specific. The terminal had 32 platforms, and saw around 200 trains a day in its peak. When the station was constructed, it was the largest railway station in the world.

Mitch
 
SunsetLimited said:
St Louis was a massive interchange for passengers, and St Louis Union Terminal served 22 individual railroads, to be specific. The terminal had 32 platforms, and saw around 200 trains a day in its peak. When the station was constructed, it was the largest railway station in the world.
Click to expand...
And the station I am looking for is indeed St. Louis. It was often called the grand daddy of them all. 100,000 people per day. It actually had 40 platforms - the 32 the Mitch speaks of were just the ones under the shed cover. It also served several (8?) express freight companies. I only have a list of 17 railroads which is still more than any other. Notably missing from the list is Santa Fe, Union Pacific, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific. Santa Fe at one time had planned to run trains through on the Wabash from Kansas City, but I am unable to find any information that plan ever came to fruition.

The terminal was not only massive but beautiful. In 1979 I lived in St. Louis in the apartments directly across the street from the station. I used to walk over around and through the area (being careful to avoid the belligerent almost militant homeless people who "lived" there). The grand hall was pretty close to being awesome even in its run down abandon look of the time.

It was served by an interlaced triple wye, switched by the TRRA railroad. All trains arrived past the control tower and were then backed into their assigned tracks.

Now for the follow along question discussion. Up until Amtrak what was unique about all the trains at St. Louis Union Station? There was only 1 exception to this "all" situation from the early 1940s. A train in this context is the entity that is on a time table, not the physical equipment used to make up that train.
 
OldGuyHO said:
My vote is for Chicago. However, if you count commuter trains, NY Grand Central might be in the running.
Click to expand...
New York is always been a railroad paradox to me. The number of railroads actually getting into Manhattan was remarkably few. Other railroads like B&O reached the Jersey Shore and used other means to get passengers across the Hudson.
 
Baltimore & Ohio (BO); Chicago & Alton (CA); Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy (CBQ); Chicago & Eastern Ilinois (CEI); Chesapeake & Ohio (CO); Illinois Central (IC); Illinois Terminal System (ITS); Louisville & Nashville (LN); Missouri, Kansas, & Texas (MKT aka KATY); Mobile & Ohio ((MO); Missouri Pacific (MP); Mississippi River & Bonne Terre (MRBT); Nashville, Chattanooga, & St. Louis (NCSL); Nickel Plate (NKP, aka New York, Chicago, & St Louis); New York Central (NYC); Pennsylvania (PRR); Rock Island (RI, aka Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific); St. Louis, Iron Mountain, & Southern (SLIMS?); St. Louis & San Francisco (SLSF, aka Frisco); Southern (SOU); St. Louis & Southwestern (SSW aka Cotton Belt); and the Wabash (WAB)

Willie
 
santafewillie said:
Baltimore & Ohio (BO); Chicago & Alton (CA); Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy (CBQ); Chicago & Eastern Ilinois (CEI); Chesapeake & Ohio (CO); Illinois Central (IC); Illinois Terminal System (ITS); Louisville & Nashville (LN); Missouri, Kansas, & Texas (MKT aka KATY); Mobile & Ohio ((MO); Missouri Pacific (MP); Mississippi River & Bonne Terre (MRBT); Nashville, Chattanooga, & St. Louis (NCSL); Nickel Plate (NKP, aka New York, Chicago, & St Louis); New York Central (NYC); Pennsylvania (PRR); Rock Island (RI, aka Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific); St. Louis, Iron Mountain, & Southern (SLIMS?); St. Louis & San Francisco (SLSF, aka Frisco); Southern (SOU); St. Louis & Southwestern (SSW aka Cotton Belt); and the Wabash (WAB)
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. You've gone clear back even before WWI.

Then I didn't have the NCSL either. On who's tracks did they get to St. Louis on? CB&Q via Paducah. I know they had a jointly owned bridge there over the Ohio. Other candidates would be the L&N (which allowed them to even get to Paducah), Illinois Central, or C&EI did some passenger train deals with them (thinking about the "Dixie Flyer").
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sirfoldalot said:
How about the Minneapolis and St Louis? or was it East St Louis?
Click to expand...
Interestingly the Minny Lou never even made it to Missouri, let alone St. Louis. I wonder how many railroads have a destination in their name that was only a dream? Atlantic & Pacific, Frisco, and Missouri Pacific come to mind.
 
santafewillie said:
Baltimore & Ohio (BO); Chicago & Alton (CA); Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy (CBQ); Chicago & Eastern Ilinois (CEI); Chesapeake & Ohio (CO); Illinois Central (IC); Illinois Terminal System (ITS); Louisville & Nashville (LN); Missouri, Kansas, & Texas (MKT aka KATY); Mobile & Ohio ((MO); Missouri Pacific (MP); Mississippi River & Bonne Terre (MRBT); Nashville, Chattanooga, & St. Louis (NCSL); Nickel Plate (NKP, aka New York, Chicago, & St Louis); New York Central (NYC); Pennsylvania (PRR); Rock Island (RI, aka Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific); St. Louis, Iron Mountain, & Southern (SLIMS?); St. Louis & San Francisco (SLSF, aka Frisco); Southern (SOU); St. Louis & Southwestern (SSW aka Cotton Belt); and the Wabash (WAB)
Click to expand...

Willie, it would seem your information was copied directly from Model Railroader's forums, word for word!! :p

I spent hours trying to find a list of the railroads that called by St Louis Union Station, and I'm sorry to say there's a couple of minor error with your list. I don't believe the C&O used Union Station, and the terminal railroad wasn't the Illinois Terminal System, but rather the Terminal Railroad Association (TRRA).

I'm not very well versed on railroads around St Louis in the past century, and all this information was based on some post-haste research to discover the "Mystery 22", as me and my partner came to know the railroads as. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mitch
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top