Is Computer Railroad Simulation Programs Really Model Railroading?


S

SoCalTrainGuy74

New Member
Years ago I came across a train simulator program called Trainz and the program allowed you to build a virtual world. You could design and build the ultimate layout without any of the real world restrictions such as size or money. It's very easy to use and in no time I had recreated some of my favorite locations as well as my own fictional layouts. I used the program for years while I was on a break from real model railroading and it got me thinking about how much easier the program was than real model railroading. Like I mentioned already the sky is the limit with the program while real model railroading is greatly affected by your financial situation as well as your available space and of course your time.

So is it really considered model railroading when it's created and contained on a computer or is it only real model railroading when it's a physical recreation in your home with models your build, track you lay, trains you run etc?
 
I agree. "Model" Railroading is just that. Trainz is more a game or simulation as wombat stated. That's not to say it doesn't belong here. If it is something that can help design a layout, then it would be considered a tool so to speak. But it is not model railroading by itself.
 
I will add my two cents and say that it IS modelling in one way. Within the game, you are encouraged to create new content, meaning using modelling software to create new game items. So in this way, yes, you are a modelling if you are creating new game content. You can create buildings, track, locomotives, rolling stock, industries, and pretty much anything else you can imagine, just as in a physical layout. I think it takes just as much, if not more, creativity to create 3d content. Believe me, I have tried and I simply cannot get a handle on it. So in my mind, you are a rail modeler if you create a virtual layout in Trainz.
 
Are you guys talking about Trainz Simulator? Because I played that and you just drove trains around. Does anyone have a link because that actually sounds kind of interesting.
 
Oh nevermind. That is what I played. I downloaded it on Steam. Going to have to experiment with that one a bit more.
 
SoCalTrainGuy74 said:
Years ago I came across a train simulator program called Trainz and the program allowed you to build a virtual world. You could design and build the ultimate layout without any of the real world restrictions such as size or money. It's very easy to use and in no time I had recreated some of my favorite locations as well as my own fictional layouts. I used the program for years while I was on a break from real model railroading and it got me thinking about how much easier the program was than real model railroading. Like I mentioned already the sky is the limit with the program while real model railroading is greatly affected by your financial situation as well as your available space and of course your time.

So is it really considered model railroading when it's created and contained on a computer or is it only real model railroading when it's a physical recreation in your home with models your build, track you lay, trains you run etc?
Click to expand...


Hey SoCalTrainGuy74,

Interesting question, that I don't have an answer to.

The way I see it if you enjoy the software, use it. I can't see why you could not do both real world modeling and cyber modeling. If you are having fun then its all good!

If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? My answer; I don't care.

These questions are beyond my capabilities.

As long as you are enjoying your hobby is all that matters in my opinion.

If you have a love of trains you are in the right forum!

Thanks for posting the question, even though I don't have an answer it may be interesting to see other peoples answers.
 
@NScaler: Yeah, thats Trainz allright. I have Trainz 2009 & 2010. Quite interesting what you can do with it. Yes, you CAN just drive trains around, but it's the same as you CAN just go to someone else's layout and run their equipment. Totally possible, but it defeats the purpose of the hobby. Believe me, driving the trains is fun, but like in real modeling, the best part is creating something new. I think you should give it another try! Have fun with it!
 
It seems to me that "model railroading" is a bunch of different hobbies. Some guys have blogs or columns in mags where they mainly drop the names of other big model railroaders, and they say they're model railroading. Some play NMRA or club politics and say they're model railroading. Some do "operations" with a couple dozen guys playing elaborate role scenarios of dispatcher, yardmaster, conductor, and so forth, and call it model railroading. Some are pretty rich and hire guys to build their layouts and say they're model railroading. I don't know where you draw a line except to satisfy yourself, but I'm not sure if even a lot of those guys are satisfying themselves, so who can say what it is?
 
I didn't realize it had the capability to design a complete layout in 3D. So I will have to change my answer and say yes, it is definitely model railroading. Because I can see it as being an invaluable tool for people like me that struggle with designing a layout. I just don't have the skills to do this prototypically since I have no railroad experience at all. But mainly it is the grades that cause me fits because I have a hard time visualizing 2D lines on a page. That is why SCARM works better for me. So I am going to definitely give Trainz another go. But I cannot find the copy I had now which I think was an older version. I will just buy the game on Steam. The 2014 version is getting some pretty crappy reviews though. Any thoughts from those of you that use this software?
 
I think the only one that would ever come close would be a game called Railroad Tycoon now called Railroads. you built your track to the cities you controlled the trains (somewhat).
 
Trainz has a few different versions. I think the latest version I had used was 2010. You could find them on Amazon. There are newer versions but I don't think they are made by the same folks that made the original Trainz, a company called Auran I think if I remember correctly, from Australia.

It sucks that I have the game and the discs but somehow the decal on the CD case got scratched and it contains the serial number to install the game so it's missing a couple of the number/letters and I can't install it on my newer computer because I don't have the complete code.

Might have to just go ahead and buy another one.
 
I've done quite a bit of work with Microsoft Train Simulator over the last few years. I would definitely say that it would qualify as a form of model railroading, even if it's not a version you can physically put your hands on. I like that there's no space limitations and it doesn't cost money to get more trains or track. I can also repaint equipment quite easily.

I still have my HO layout, but I seem to spend more time working on the MSTS routes and models.

scrgrb0 (2).jpgscrgrb17.jpgscrgrb10 (2).jpg
 
Personally, I would call it Virtual Railroading, rather than a form of model railroading. When you model something its the creation of a copy of a real item, which to me means its something tangible, something that can be touched.

I have no problem with the folks who enjoy the virtual kind of railroading, its just not for me.
 
I had an old version of Trainz ~10 years ago and had quite a bit of fun with just running the trains on the pre-existing virtual layouts, for ~3 weeks. Then I realized I wasn't getting any work done building my real layout!
 
Model Railroadz is the New Trend

The Trainz community is now making Model Railroadz, actually making layouts:

[video=youtube;mNthzaP86H4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNthzaP86H4[/video]

There is a thread on the Trainz forum discussing them:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?109444-Making-Model-Railroadz

And a thread of screen shots:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?109038-Model-Railroadz

Trainz also has a car forwarding system that allows for an endless operating session.

And you can "build" stuff, my store:

bomze_1.jpg


Harold
 
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To me its still virtual. Can I take anything I build there and take it to a "show and tell" at the club, or enter it into a contest if I so choose? No. Can I actually place it on my layout? No. So is it model railroading, not to me.
 
Not a good comparison IMO. Model railroading is NOT real railroading. Perhaps Trainz simulation is model railroading like X-Plane is flying RC planes, but the other comparison just doesn't cut it. Add to this the fact that flight simulators do nothing to have customizable content and you don't really have a close comparison at all. True, you can add your own content to flight simulator in some ways, but Trainz is built to be a modeling program from the start. For example, are you a model railroader if you paint a locomotive? Then why am I not a model railroader if I design a paint scheme and place it on a 3D model? This question relies on your definition of modeling materials and media. So is it really fair to exclude someone from being part of the hobby because they use a different material or media than you? I don't think the Lionel guys should be included as modelors because some of their stuff is out of scale (I don't really think this, but you can see the point?) It's fun to do, it takes creativity, and it is a legitimate form of the hobby for people who have $10 to spend on software but not thousands to spend on models. Why does everyone always try to take the fun out of it for guys who enjoy other things?
 
Carey, I see your point. And I agree to a certain extent. I wouldn't consider it model railroading looking at it from your point of view either. But if you look at it as a tool to design and work out placement of items I can see it being considered right up there with the books that teach us this great hobby. If a hobbyist uses this "game" to build his layout, then uses that virtual layout to build the real thing I can see the reason to consider it model railroading.

It is similar in my line of work. After 20 years machining and programming I am now a 3D modeler, CNC programmer, Tool Maker, and Machinist. I grew up in old machine shops with manual lathes and mills. I now program and run a full 5 axis CNC router. Everything has moved from the drafting table to the PC. But it is still machining. The CAD/CAM software that we use to design and program our machines is very similar to this railroading game in that it creates a virtual model of the finished product. The machines are modeled into the program so you can watch the virtual machine cut the virtual part. Look here...
[video]http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/2FastLX/?action=view&current=truefan.flv[/video]


Is this machining? Not really if you look at it by itself. But it is part of the process to create this...
100_0241.jpg

So therefore it is machining.
By the way, I made that for a game company over in Europe.

I guess it is all in how you use the software.
 
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