Im so confused DCC new modeler

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DaveBowman

New Member
For those who have ask about what is north of the WYE, this is the full design, including the slot car track the purple will be the DC line that I am integrating into the layout as well and why it is so wide.
1597442305276.png
 

cv_acr

Active Member
Ok I believe I under stand everybody's advice, from my understanding with DCC you don't want the signal to loop so you should only have power one direction so you would need a double gap on each circle, I have removed the block detector and set the one reversing section on the WYE. Do you believe this should be the simpler design?
No.

The oval is fine, but you need to protect where one rail can cross to the other side (e.g. a circle is perfectly fine, but a track that loops BACK on itself such that a train travelling over it ends up travelling the opposite direction on the same track.)

The triangle arrangement of the wye allows a train to perform a 3-point turn and head out in the opposite direction on the same original track. If you track both rails you see where they eventually cross over connecting opposite polarity.
 
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DaveBowman

New Member
No.

The oval is fine, but you need to protect where one rail can cross to the other side (e.g. a circle is perfectly fine, but a track that loops BACK on itself such that a train travelling over it ends up travelling the opposite direction on the same track.)

The triangle arrangement of the wye allows a train to perform a 3-point turn and head out in the opposite direction on the same original track. If you track both rails you see where they eventually cross over connecting opposite polarity.
I thought on a straight oval DCC should not reconnect at the top of the oval, from my understanding it could cause issues with sound duplication near the top as it gets signal form both East/West lines
 

Railrunner130

Well-Known Member
Personally, I'd rip out all the extra stuff (AR-1, etc.) and wire it just as you would with DC, only use the Zephyr. Start with what you know. Once you're confident with how that works, then try different things.

I tried an AR-1 many times and could never get it to work.
 
M

MHinLA

Guest
No one is stuck with A N Y T H I N G as far as hobbying goes !! WARNING ! The following statements can potentially cause you pain:
The track scheme you have is boring, tediously set, and 1950s-like archaic. It wastes lots of room and will make a number of things very hard to do..
Today's progressive modelers steer away from big flat surfaces for those reasons (which I will list at your request)......
My most heart felt suggestion is to can the whole project and find something more in line with what's become the standard in the hobby..
IE. Investigate shelf (usually narrower than), around the room (but not shelf), open grid, L girder, or, modular benchwork types...
Call it tough love....M
 
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DaveBowman

New Member
Personally, I'd rip out all the extra stuff (AR-1, etc.) and wire it just as you would with DC, only use the Zephyr. Start with what you know. Once you're confident with how that works, then try different things.

I tried an AR-1 many times and could never get it to work.
Thank you
 

Alcomotive

Grandson of ALCO Bldr
You can look at my "around the room layout" 2x4 modulars. Although it is temporary it was relatively simple and yet on going.


There are many other fine examples on this forum where members have posted their layouts as well......
 

dave1905

Well-Known Member
Based on your track plan you have two ovals (orange and black) on the main board and a purple oval that appears to be totally separate on what I assume is an upper level.

Then you have a yard attached to the purple oval and a turquoise yard on a wye off the orange oval.

From a DCC standpoint you can wire all the outside rails of all three ovals together and all the inside rails of all three ovals together, and it will operate perfectly fine. The crossovers between the orange and black ovals won't matter. The purple and orange yards just keep the feeders oriented the same as the ovals and they will work.

If you want to leave the purple line DC fine, its not connected to anything that I can see on the plan.

The only tricky thing is the yard with the wye. My first suggestion is that you move the gaps up to the switch in the tail in the wye and make the left and right legs of the wye part of the orange oval. It will make it simpler to operate. Then you can put the whole yard from and including the wye tail switch to the end of track on an auto reverser or you can hook up a dpdt toggle or slide switch to the tail track switch so that the polarity of the tail depends on which way the switch is thrown. When its lined for the right leg, it will electrically match the right leg, when its lined for the left leg, then it will electrically match the left leg. Really old school but it works.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
Slot cars? I think I recognize some typical Aurora Model Motoring pieces in there.

I know this is supposed to be about wiring, but I see two issues with the track plan no one else has mentioned. Well two instances of the same issue. After the Bachmann crossover on the lower left. the lowest track needs a tail. Right now there is not enough room to fit a single car or loco on the track and allow it to switch to the other. Looks like the same issue at the end of the yard on the upper left. As below:
tailtrack.jpg


And also a suggestion. Once again getting off topic and doing layout analysis instead of wiring. Looking at the yard on the peninsula, it looks like much of it is consumed with crossovers. A real working yard would not have so many switches in it. A stub end yard will usually have a pair of parallel tracks. One is the arrival track and the other is what is called the locomotive escape track. A train pulls into the yard on the arrival track. The locomotive uncouples and pulls forward past the switch. Then switches to the other track and backs out to the locomotive facilities leaving the train there for the yard switcher to deal with. If this were mine I would remove at least two of those crossovers leaving lots more room for car storage and use the turnouts for something more constructive. Something like below. If your modern and don't have caboose then it could be a rip track, work train, team track, freight station track, etc.
DaveBowmanYard.jpg
 
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Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
Just curious, why isn't the purple track connected to the rest (just because of wiring)? At first I thought it was a trolley or street car, but looking closer it looks like some sort of industrial stuff. Seems a shame not to integrate it.
 
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chadbag

Well-Known Member
No one is stuck with A N Y T H I N G as far as hobbying goes !! WARNING ! The following statements can potentially cause you pain:
The track scheme you have is boring, tediously set, and 1950s-like archaic. It wastes lots of room and will make a number of things very hard to do..
Today's progressive modelers steer away from big flat surfaces for those reasons (which I will list at your request)......
My most heart felt suggestion is to can the whole project and find something more in line with what's become the standard in the hobby..
IE. Investigate shelf (usually narrower than), around the room (but not shelf), open grid, L girder, or, modular benchwork types...
Call it tough love....M

It really depends on what your goals are and why you have a layout in the first place. Progressive modelers may have been modeling for so long that they want something different or more challenging. Beginners have not experienced the "boring" yet (or as much) and may be perfectly satisfied with the "boring." The same way you don't start driving with a Nascar or F1 car, you start with the boring car to gather experience. With railroads, maybe you need to learn with the boring first. Personally, I don't expect to get much past the boring. Running trains in loops is fine with me (Osaka loop line is a big loop anyway in real life...)
 

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
Just several suggestions on your layout.

What is the dimensions of the layout? It's important that you can reach into the layout to build and later maintain the layout.

Is it important to have the DC section of the layout? Also, the slot car track? I would eliminate these features to keep the layout simpler and allow for more room for scenery.

I would start at the beginning and lay out the two ovals of track and then proceed ahead and get experience with the world of DCC. Add more track as you become comfort with feeders and then tackle the wye and revere loop which is very simple. As you proceed you'll likely get more ideas about your track plan and layout.

Greg

#####################
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
I thought on a straight oval DCC should not reconnect at the top of the oval, from my understanding it could cause issues with sound duplication near the top as it gets signal form both East/West lines
Once again way over thinking it. I don't know the drift velocity for a DCC signal but I've had loops that are over one hundred feet around and there is no problem.
 

DaveBowman

New Member
Based on your track plan you have two ovals (orange and black) on the main board and a purple oval that appears to be totally separate on what I assume is an upper level.

Then you have a yard attached to the purple oval and a turquoise yard on a wye off the orange oval.

From a DCC standpoint you can wire all the outside rails of all three ovals together and all the inside rails of all three ovals together, and it will operate perfectly fine. The crossovers between the orange and black ovals won't matter. The purple and orange yards just keep the feeders oriented the same as the ovals and they will work.

If you want to leave the purple line DC fine, its not connected to anything that I can see on the plan.

The only tricky thing is the yard with the wye. My first suggestion is that you move the gaps up to the switch in the tail in the wye and make the left and right legs of the wye part of the orange oval. It will make it simpler to operate. Then you can put the whole yard from and including the wye tail switch to the end of track on an auto reverser or you can hook up a dpdt toggle or slide switch to the tail track switch so that the polarity of the tail depends on which way the switch is thrown. When its lined for the right leg, it will electrically match the right leg, when its lined for the left leg, then it will electrically match the left leg. Really old school but it works.
Thank you
the size is 5x9 with the yard on its own board
thank you for the suggestion.
As I am building it, I'm having issue with slope as designed it was about 4-5% so Im having to rethink the height. I can make it with 2 engines but a single will not pull more than 1 car.
I have played with removing the slot for that reason as well, and not fully sold on keeping it
 

DaveBowman

New Member
Slot cars? I think I recognize some typical Aurora Model Motoring pieces in there.

I know this is supposed to be about wiring, but I see two issues with the track plan no one else has mentioned. Well two instances of the same issue. After the Bachmann crossover on the lower left. the lowest track needs a tail. Right now there is not enough room to fit a single car or loco on the track and allow it to switch to the other. Looks like the same issue at the end of the yard on the upper left. As below:
View attachment 116339

And also a suggestion. Once again getting off topic and doing layout analysis instead of wiring. Looking at the yard on the peninsula, it looks like much of it is consumed with crossovers. A real working yard would not have so many switches in it. A stub end yard will usually have a pair of parallel tracks. One is the arrival track and the other is what is called the locomotive escape track. A train pulls into the yard on the arrival track. The locomotive uncouples and pulls forward past the switch. Then switches to the other track and backs out to the locomotive facilities leaving the train there for the yard switcher to deal with. If this were mine I would remove at least two of those crossovers leaving lots more room for car storage and use the turnouts for something more constructive. Something like below. If your modern and don't have caboose then it could be a rip track, work train, team track, freight station track, etc.
View attachment 116340
yes that will hold a full steam engine, including my 4449
I set that so I could run an engine around the front or back of a line in both areas.
 




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