How do you quit second-guessing your track plan?

[OCN Guy]

Darn it, I keep going over my track plan and thinking there's got to be much more I can do with this! I'm just not satisfied.
I don't want to finish laying track and find as I'm putting scenery down that the track plan is too limited!
How do all of you deal with these nagging doubts?

 

[ianacole]

What I did was lay down the track (temporarily) and ran trains for a few weeks. A couple of iterations later based on what I found during these sessions and I'm happy with the layout (given the amount of space I'm allowed). Since then I've pulled up the tracked, laid the road bed, put the track back down, and have started the scenery.

 

[Selector]

You have to move on to other things. For example, once you like a track plan, place it down and figure out what structures you'll want and where you'll place them. How about scenery?

I think you would be well served if you were to make a list of must-haves in the way of operational capability, and also a purpose for each track segment and turnout. Once you know you only have what the real roads would bother to pay for and put in place for a real need, you can relax and enjoy building the rest of a functional layout.

Which begs the question: what is the purpose of all of your track elements? Are they just cool or neat, or do they look right? Or will each one of them contribute meaningfully to the entire system as if you were running a real operation that paid workers and bought new equipment cyclically? Even a dividend to investors? Once you can answer truthfully, and with conviction, why you have a turnout of a certain # right (here), and why the tracks between it and the last one are only 18" long, you'll be able to put all your nagging doubts to rest.

Crandell

 

[Railroader84]

What I did is this. At the planning stage I made a list of things I wanted to do, like, type of operation, just run trains or operate using switch lists, car cards etc, single track or double track, how long of trains. everything I could think of. Then designed a layout to fit as much as I wanted. And it is ok to change in the middle, heck the real railroads do it. I agree with what Selector says. I chose operation and Point to point.

 

[402drvr]

Just don't glue anything down. I have revised my little shelf layout a number of times and it has been as simple as pulling it up and putting it back where I wanted it. I just try to reuse as much track as possible to keep cost down.

 

[Motley]

Like what Crandell said, define what each track does and has a purpose for being there. And don't worry too much, you can always change things. That's whats great about the hobby, even if it means ripping out scenery and track.

btw, are those 12" squares on your plan? If so, that looks like a nice large layout. It looks like you will be running mainline trains, more that switching yards and industries. It might not hold your interest, You have plenty of room to add a nice yard. I think you can add some more industries, maybe add a loco facility and turntable/transfer table depending on your era.

 

[LoudMusic]

Lots of trial and error. Make nothing permanent until you're more bothered by it falling apart than 'looking the way you want it to'.
________
Medical Cannabis

 

[sledgehammer]

Ianacole is on the mark....the truth of the matter is, no matter HOW GOOD everything looks on paper, until you bloody well start operations; INCLUDING direction of traffic, "room to move", (and that is working one yard without your head end in another townsite!) you really want to be COMFORTABLE and HAPPY with operations before you do a lick of scenery. I've known several ppl that go so far as include cardboard cutout buildings for starts, as it provides demensions and perspective (and potential blind spots) in working toward your completed layout. Oddly enough, I was happy with my industrial tracks and the room I gave them for lead and spot; but I revamped my classification yard once or even twice as I wasn't happy with the ladder configuration, and the room I needed to switch without fowling a mainline...

 

[LotoQuestions]

Comments on plan

IMHO - having only one reverse loop is a waste - either have one for both counter clockwise and clockwise or go with none. This way, once through and then you have to back into the reverse loop in order to enter it.

You have double track for 75% of the loop - why not finish iit. If you think not having the remaining section adds to operation you can always out-of-order the additional section.

take care ,,, ken

plan is too limited!
How do all of you deal with these nagging doubts?

 

[tooter]

Are your tracks going to be that close to the edges? If they are, maybe some low plexiglass around the periphery would contain any derails.

Greg

 

[steinjr]

Darn it, I keep going over my track plan and thinking there's got to be much more I can do with this!

Yes, there is

Start by trying to define your goal first. What are you trying to accomplish?

For instance - what is it that you want to be able to _do_ on your layout? Where will trains come from, where will they be going to, what will they be doing along the way?

Once you start imagining running the trains (and describing an operating session or parts of an operating session in words), you will see if the track plan supports what you want to do.

What you have here is a track plan that is running all around the edges of a seemingly fairly large table.

Some sides of this table may be up against walls, giving _possible_ access problems (not knowing the size of your room, the placement of the layout in the room, the scale you are modeling in or the scale of the drawing it is hard to say).

Not knowing how you plan to run your trains, it is hard to say whether the plan will support your planned running or not.

Anyways - that's what I do - I start by defining what I want to be able to do, and then I test out possible moves on that track plan - I check that sidings are long enough.

That I have somewhere to temporarily leave cars I pull from industries while spotting the inbound cars, that trains have somewhere to come from and somewhere to go to - stuff like that.

Then I put up the tracks, put mock-ups of buildings and see how things work.

Then I make changes if it doesn't work after all

Smile,
Stein

 

[OCN Guy]

This was pretty much the inspiration for my layout - the White River and Northern. I absolutely love this track plan. My needs, however, were dictated by the two gremlins every railroader deals with... available space and budget.
I had to try to bend one edge of the White River and found that suddenly, I couldn't get the curves to line up. So I had to try for quickly putting in a track plan that fit my benchwork.

The next problem I had - you need a certain amount of straight run for each turnout. Since I had so many curves on my layout, I ended up pretty much putting a turnout everywhere I had room to put one!

I like double track, and there's a crossover I coudn't get RTS to put in, because it's kato and not Atlas. But there were more than one "101 tips" I've read that all said, try to avoid making the layout too easy for operators. So that's why in the left middle I suddenly combine the mainline and the passing track... it's the kind of real compromise you see railroads do. So if I'm running one train and someone else is running another... quick, check the rulebook!

My main consideration was I like watching the trains run in addition to doing switching (which I'm not really familiar with...yet). the "dry spaghetti" shelf layouts don't really appeal to me. I'd like to be able to sometimes turn on the trains and just run them while I sit and study. So, loop to loop or folded dog-bone became my theme, even though I know that went out of style back in the 60's.

The next consideration was my wife wanted the track running through one town for visual interest... hence the one flex-track section combining north and south routes. That one is creating some interesting possibilities, and it may turn into el track!There's another flex-track section that comes out of the tunnels and will connect to a logging industry (right back corner).

So... There's my rationale for the track plan. Everyone's giving me great ideas, and I appreciate the feedback. Now, if any of you get ideas from hearing my rationale, and get me closer to the ideal of the WR&N... I would be grateful!
And then once I get my layout in shape, I can help out other newby's!

 

[OCN Guy]

oh, and there's going to be staging underneath, and eventually a second level...
I suppose that's an important thing to mention!

 

[hamltnblue]

The only thing I would suggest is start building. You'll learn from there. If those curves are 22 inch or less I'd suggest making them larger.
Good Luck

 

[steinjr]

1) What you have there bears very little resemblance to the layout you want to copy.

The layout you want to copy had two separate continuous run routes - one around the edge of the layout, running through a diamond shaped staging yard, and one running from one automated reversing loop to another automated reversing loop, with the reversing loops stacked on top of each other. What you have done totally changes the look and feel and function of the layout you want to copy.

2) At the very least, if you actually want comments or suggestions, show us a drawing of the _room_ you want to put your layout in (not the table), and be clear on what scale you are trying to model in - it is not possible (at least not to me) to tell whether your drawing shows an N scale or a H0 scale layout.

Stein

 

[OCN Guy]

Sorry, I thought everyone remembered from my first posts that this is an N scale layout. I get in my own little world sometimes!

It's going to be a proto-freelance RR (The Greater Rhode Island Maine Railway, or the G.R.I.M.), based upon a fictional merger of B&M, MC and the Old Colony & Newport. so one level (the one you see) is Maine, and the planned upper is going to be Newport Rhode Island. (I know this has little to do with the subject, but did you ever know a railroader who didn't want to babble about his railroad?)

Of course this looks vastly different from the WR&N - I couldn't find any way to work the WR&N's layout in any way, shape or form into my layout. So, I had to start with working my track desires, and a loop railroad with passing sidings. This track plan is my own attempt. I included that so everyone could understand how I got to this present spot.
Mine is 8 feet by 5, and the islands are 32" (north) and 29.5" (south). This was the only way to work it into the room, so bench-work was a first priority.

I tried to work it with 12.5" curves (that would be 24" in HO) as I was hoping to work in passenger operations. Alas, almost every curve at 12.5 could not fit the layout, so I had to reduce it to 11.5" (roughly 22" in HO), which means passenger may still be an option, but I doubt it. The south edge (Snowshoe Curve) is against a wall...

...so passenger cars may well bang into that wall as they swing the curve. The deep corner is actually curved away from the wall to prevent that, but I just kept banging my head into the space issue.

The north island is going to be a bridge I'm going to have to scratch-build, since it curves (why? Because I managed to stick a turnout into almost every straight run of track!)

I'm going to do at least one short elevated track (the mountain route), two bridges, one tunnel section (the back wall straightaway). The hidden staging is of course New York and New Haven and Boston and... well, anywhere else I need to deliver to.

I've got a lot of scenery ideas, as you can tell... I'm just trying to second guess myself to make sure I'm not going to be limited when I start doing operations.

Everyone's giving some great feedback, including a past suggestion I make the mountain top removable for when the trains derail inside the tunnel!

 

[dave1905]

It helps to write down what you goals are, traditionally called "givens" and "druthers".
Givens are the things you HAVE to have.
Druthers are the things you want to have.

Think about what your goals are for the layout.
Do you want it to operate like a "real" railroad?
Do you want to just watch your train collection orbit?
Do you want detailed scenery or no scenery?
Are you more interested in just running trains or in switching?
Are you interested passenger or freight?
Are you interested in a particular era?
Are you interested in a particular location or region?
Are you interested in a particuler railroad?

Only you can answer these questions.

Also realize that pretty soon your interests will evolve and you will want to change things. Everybody changes layouts. I am in the process of completely rebuilding my layout and backdating it from 1950 to 1905.

 

[dave1905]

You might want to check the 'surface' of the roadbed. It may just be the pictures and the lighting, but the roadbed looks "lumpy". That will may make keeping trains on the track difficult.

If you want switching then it works best to allow for it at the beginning. How have you allowed for switching? Do you have a yard (even a couple tracks to build or originate a train)? Do you have any staging to hold a train until its time to run?

One of the problems is that you ran all your tracks right along the edges, that means all the spurs have to run into the center and you have to force a lot of sharp curves in the corner.

For example if you had run the track about 6-8" in from the edge in the big arc around the cut out, you can put spurs on both sides of the tracks. You can run the trains THROUGH the scenery not just along side of it.

Although everybody likes roundhouses, unless you have a yard where you originate or terminate trains, there isn't much of use for a roundhouse other than a display case for engines. If you want one great, go for it. If you are interested in operations, the real estate may be better used for industries or a yard. Your choice.

 

[steinjr]

8x5 foot area with access from left and below, N scale continuous run with 12" radius:

Quick sketch no 1:

Quick sketch no 2:

Smile,
Stein

 

[OCN Guy]

Cool, thanks! Did you have that already done, or was that something you just whipped up?