How difficult is it to remove the shell on a Stewart DS-4-4-1000?

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Blues909

Active Member
I got one new in the box still wrapped neve open. It arrived on the 26th of may. I can see the bracket for the cab light is not in position. Today I finally decided to power up the loco touching the power pack clips to one set of wheels. I hear and feel the cab end truck rattle unless I tilt it up or turn it to either side. The wheels all work on both trucks and the cab noisy one the gears seem to be fine. It seems like something is maybe touching the cab end drive shaft or maybe the worm clip is not fully seated .

I see the 4 tabs through the frame above the trucks , do I just push them in from the side? The instructions say to. I have never had one apart before and don't know if you push one tab then the other on the same end or same side.

Normally I would just go for it yet this seems a bit more tricky than most I've done and I don't want to break anything.

Any help would be great.
 

Espeefan

Well-Known Member
Follow the instructions. It'll come off just like they say. I start at the front and get it loose then work the rear. Work the front a little then the rear a little until it's all the way loose. Just go slow. You'll be OK
 

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
Like Espeefan says, just take it easy and the shell will separate from the chassis.

Once The shell is off, you can check the locomotive from end to end and see if anything is rubbing. Usually it takes some time for a locomotive to get a "Break-in" and the gear noises disappear. I like to run a new loco without a shell to be able to spot (hear) any problems.

There maybe always some minor noise from the gears that is normal.

Greg
 

Blues909

Active Member
I haven't removed the shell yet it's so hot here today. To describe what I see and hear. The front truck is quiet , the rear or cab truck if I leave it run up side down rattles and vibrates quite a bit. It doesn't sound like it needs breaking in, it sounds like something is either hitting the driveshaft or the drive shaft is not seated proper. If I rotate the truck to either side the noise quiets down quit a lot yet it's still louder than the front truck . It also quiets down to the same level if I leave the truck straight and tip either the front or rear down. It doesn't feel loose like the worm cap is not clipped down meaning the truck does not move away from the frame anymore than the front truck. I didn't pull on it , I'm just going by the weight of the truck.

. The box does not have any smashed in corners yet there is a reason the cab light holding clip is not in place. I'm not sure how the cabs interior is held it place, it seems to be secure yet it is over the drive shaft . If I place my fingers on either pair of the trucks wheels while it's running I don't feel any gear teeth issues and none of the wheels slip on the axles like a broken axle gear.

I'm thinking since it's the cab end truck there must be something above the truck hitting the drive shaft , if the shaft was broken or out of place the wheels would not turn at all.

I guess the only way to know is to remove the shell and take a look. I'll let you know what I find . I can't see a thing without removing the shell .

I finally get a loco I've wanted for years and this . It's the first time I've had issues like this on a new model , sure on old Athearn BB or PK2 I've run across cracked axle gears and this sort of noise , this does not act like those and is not the same. When you run the above with the wheels with no weight on them they jump a bit because the axle gears are not in full contact with the case gears, this has the fixed outside bearing so the axles cannot loose contact.
 

Blues909

Active Member
I removed the shell today, The 2 front shell tabs were cracked and I didn't do it only used very light pressure. I cleaned the paint off the cracks and used testors liquid cement to fix them. They were not broken off yet both had a crack on an angle at the front and near the shell bottom.

I don't see anything hitting the cab end drive shaft , what I do see is the shaft does not move back and forth on the flywheel octagon plastic insert where the front one does very easy. This must be why the cab end truck vibrates. Another thing I noticed are the axles do not move side to side at all where the front truck they do , the one near the tank moves more than the one near the pilot. If I set the frame on the wheels and move the unit back and forth the front truck the worm moves back and forth because the drive shaft is free to move in the flywheel , the cab end barely moves which is what seems to be the issue. I'm going to try a bit of LaBelle oil to see if I can free that flywheel hex up so the drive shaft moves for and aft if that doesn't do it then I need to remove that truck. I cannot even move it with tweezers. Maybe if I just remove the worm cover I can free the hex , maybe. Also I noticed the flywheel universal #232 on the problem truck is flush with the flywheel end , the front truck is set in a little maybe .010". Point is the front truck the drive shaft hex never goes flush in the flywheel universal it's out a bit and moves out further as I move the worm , the problem one is flush and never moves in or out. It's either a real tight fit or there is something behind it so it can't move. Even with the shell off I can't get at it and if all fails I might need to remove the motor to see what the problem is. I popped the circuit board off to see if I could gat at it better , not much room in there.


Then I need to fit the cabs LED cover back on , how do I get the cab off the walkway? I see one clip at the rear.
 
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Blues909

Active Member
The oil on the hex end of the universal didn't free it up. It seems to run fine if I run it with the wheels on a flat surface IE I don't hear the noise yet that hex end of the universal shaft should move in the flywheel universal. Seems in order to fix this I need to remove the motor. I emailed Bowser tech support to see what they have to say. I did get the cab off and put the LED cover back on. Also drilled the holes for the stack and horn. Looks like a few holes on the front /radiator of the shell need the paint cleared out. I still don't like the way the rear universal shaft hex does not move in the flywheel universal.
 
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Blues909

Active Member
Bowser emailed me back and said the hex has to move and said it sounds like flash of dirt might be the cause. here is their email to me.

Bowser Manufacturing <bowser@bowser-trains.com>
6:21 AM (2 hours ago)

to me









what is the stock number on the end of the box so I know the age of the unit.

Sounds like flash on the universal hex head or dirt. you have to have movement - universal into the flywheel

Thank you
Lee English
Bowser Mfg, 1302 Jordan Ave
Montoursville PA 17754
 

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
Sounds like you're close to repairing your problem locomotive.

Lee English has alsway been very responsive to email and helpful.

Greg
 

Blues909

Active Member
Greg I hope so. If I need parts which I hope I don't , Bowser still carries most of them and the seller on ebay did say they would do all they can to rectify any issues when I bought it . Looking at the frame it looks like I can disconnect the leads to the circuit board from that truck and the motor and lay the board over the front truck , remove the rear truck and be able to remove the motor so I can hold that flywheel and the rear stuck universal and hopefully pull it out of the flywheel . I can't get at it any other way and don't was to damage anything like the motor bearings by just pulling on the universal shaft . When it was built by Stewart if they could get the hex in there I should be able to pull it out. I don't want to use tools on the plastic shaft I need to grasp it with my fingers while holding the flywheel so I can feel it.
 

Blues909

Active Member
I removed the rear truck leads and the leads from the motor to the board. lifted the board over the front truck. Removed the worm cover and the shaft and worm assembly came out of the flywheel . There was some molding flash on three of the hex flats, I scraped them off and also there was some sort of gummy stuff on one flat, no idea what that was.

Now both shafts are free moving and move the same amount. I couldn't get in there with the board in the way, not only the two copper prongs for the LED's were in the way to reach the worm cover arms so was part of the board. Some fiddly little clips on the wires to the board.
 
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Blues909

Active Member
I got the shells hand rails and grabs on, one went flying good thing they provide extras. By the time I was done with repairing the drive and did the hood with those tiny grabs my eyes could do no more. Just need top do the walkway and cab another day. did the horn and stack yesterday. I was going to paint the rails where they should be yellow , I don't even know what type of paint to use. All I have in yellow is scale coat and Floquil wish I had Badger water based. Whatever I decide I can be real careful or place paper so the paint does not get of the black body. It's the late Erie black/yellow scheme.

This sort of detail used to be easy , not now when I'm an old man. Hope it fits in the box when I'm finally done, if not I'll trim the Styrofoam so it fits.
 
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Blues909

Active Member
My last question on this Stewart DS-4-4-1000. On the hand rails front and rear plus the front side. I got them on yet I had to enlarge the holes where they fit by the steps and where the lower front and rear lower cross bar fits into the top edge of the pilot one pin each side. I can get at them from the inside. I thought a smidge of CA would keep them in place. If I don't they will come out. I had to drill the holes the size as close to the railings as I could because if I forced them in the provided holes this would have damaged the press fit pins of the railings. Didn't want to risk it. The others went in fine other than the two grabs L & R of each pilot I had to play with the holes or they would never go in. Same deal with the lift bars.

Thought's?
 

santafewillie

Well-Known Member
Quite often some of the grab holes get a bit of paint in them and need to be reamed out a bit. Rather than using CA, I generally use Woodland Scenics "Scenic Accents" glue on handrails in case I have to remove them in the future. Grabs are no big deal, use CA on them.
Disclaimer: I don't own any Stewart models but I have seen this on many other engines such as Athearn, Kato or P2K.
 

Sirfoldalot

Product Tester ACME INC.
Staff member
Blues909 - I have enjoyed the reading of your foray into this repair. As Arte Johnson, peering through the bushes, would say. "Verrily Interesting".
I may have one in a box up in the closet - I will have to see if I have any of the same problems ... THANKS for the clinic!
 

Blues909

Active Member
Quite often some of the grab holes get a bit of paint in them and need to be reamed out a bit. Rather than using CA, I generally use Woodland Scenics "Scenic Accents" glue on handrails in case I have to remove them in the future. Grabs are no big deal, use CA on them.
Disclaimer: I don't own any Stewart models but I have seen this on many other engines such as Athearn, Kato or P2K.
On Athearn I've only had the metal railings yet have added detail parts like details associates grabs and always CA them I place and the handrails. I have one with plastic railings yet haven't applied those and a Spectrum Train master haven't applied them either. All the P2K I've had were melted in place none were undec. Only had a Kato NW2 and they were installed on a new SF , don't recall how they were applied. Atlas seemed to fit well with no glue at least on the S-2 and S-4, GP7 and RS-1 and RS-3. The ones on the Stewart are much thinner , most fit fine other than the ones I mentioned . I have older Stewart with the Athearn drive they fit well no glue and the later Stewart Kato drive RS-11, C-424 no issues there. On this Stewart it's the first time installing the railings and grabs even though i did have a few VO-1000's yet never took the railings out of the package.

Stewart does not mention gluing and since some railings fit fine others the ends the fit the holes are not round and the paint needs to be cleared , even the closest bit just to clear the paint was just enough to make them a bit loose. Even though thin they are tough yet the ones I cleared the paint I doubt if CA in place will present any issue since they don't affect things like removing the cab or hood . They might stay in place yet are easy to pull out so I need to glue them. I'll check out Woodland Scenics. Wonder if the yellow wood glue would be enough to secure them, it's great for gap filling and can be removed. Many use it to secure side frames on Athearn yet we are talking a much thicker pin.
 

Blues909

Active Member
Blues909 - I have enjoyed the reading of your foray into this repair. As Arte Johnson, peering through the bushes, would say. "Verrily Interesting".
I may have one in a box up in the closet - I will have to see if I have any of the same problems ... THANKS for the clinic!
Yes it's been quite an experience. Thanks for reading it. If you do have one my only advice on the railings is they are tough yet thin yet you can ruin the press in pins if they won't go in easy and they tend to fly away even using good twezzers . If they don't go in I would not force them . They look nice yet I prefer thin metal , however the plastic ones look more realistic. I had a few battles with mine even though it was new in a sealed box , seems jarring around can break the shell to frame tabs and the drive had to be when it was built. I was able to fix all of this, now I just have the tiny metal wipers and the air hoses and finding a good way to secure the few railings I had to clear paint out of the holes. I really need one of those lighted desk top magnifiers for tiny things like this , one with at least a 4" lense .

I'm happy you enjoyed my adventure.
 
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Blues909

Active Member
Well here are photo's of it done. Not the best yet here they are. I got the handrails straight and the ones that wouldn't stay I just used yellow wood glue and they are not moving now . I even installed the tiny wipers and used the couplers that came with it. I didn't have any Kadee #5 's have # 33's yet the shanks are just a tad to short by 1/32" yet enough that they were touching the buffer above the knuckel.
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