HO trolley bus motor problems


tombbbb

Member
Hello again,
A few weeks ago, I posted pictures and questions about headlights and interior lights for my Silvine ho Trolley bus, which is similar to an aristo craft, Eheim, or Brawa ho trolley bus .I got a lot of help and ideas from that posting, however, in the meantime, another problem popped up.
When I reassembled the bus, the motor started binding. In other words, I could feel it "humming", but it would not turn when energized. Interestingly, I thought the gears from the motor to the rear drive wheels were binding, and indeed when I disconnected them, the motor ran like a champ. However, as I continued working on it, I found that it woud not run at all, but "hum" when energized. When I turn the motor with my fingers, it spins freely without any drag or binding. This binding only occurs when energized through the brushes.
My knowledge of these motors is limited, but did try a few things, without success.

1. When I energize each brush from the transformer, it hums, as if the motor is binding.
2. With my multi meter I tested for continuity between the two brushes, (which I've marked in a picture, one which I believe to be positive, and one which I believe to be negative) touching one lead to each brush, and my multi meter beeps, indicating current flowing from brush to brush, through the motor.
3. I've sprayed it with electronic cleaner, which made no difference.
4. Interestingly, when I hook up negative power lead, from the transformer, to what I believe to be the negative lead on the motor, and touch the the positive power lead from the transformer to the motor "axle?" it runs great. I circled in yellow what I'm calling the motor axle in an attached picture for clarity.
5. I removed one brush, the one which I beleive goes to the positive on the transformer, cleaned it, reinstalled -which made no difference.

Please, ask me any questions-I need help!!


I hope this clearly explains what I've attempted, failed and what is going on with this thing. Hopefully, someone will have some ideas on what I can try to fix it.
Thanks,
Tom
 

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I know nothing about these motors, so I'm no help, but someone will be along who I'm sure can help solve your problem.
 
Hi. As I mentioned in the previous post the motor is AC not DC and therefore has a coil in place of a permanent magnet as in a DC motor.
The coil needs to be energised for the motor to work. If the coil and armature are in series as Marklin AC motors are then supplying voltage to the brushes will not work.
If the motor is wired in parallel then the field coil still needs to be connected to power. Check the wiring to see if the motor is wired in series or parallel.
The motor will work on AC or DC and as I explained the bus uses an AC motor to prevent it reversing - either DC polarity will only cause forward motion because the coil and the armature are reversed only allowing one way rotation .
Hope this helps. Colin.
 
Hunslet-
Thank You for your answer. That's something I hadn't considered. Now I need to figure out if that motor is wired in parallel, or series, and how to fix it. That's ok, we'll see how it goes. I have time.

Thanks again,
Toom
 
Good morning-
I finally got this trolley working very nicely. I had disconnected wires, which I worked on from advice on this forum, as well as some in person advice.
Unfortunaely, when I run the motor, it only runs backwards-so, I know I hooked up some wires or wire incorrectly. My knowledge of these motors is very limited, as I'm sure you can tell. Hopefully someone can advise me how to fix these wires so the motor runs in the correct direction.
Thanks,
Tom
 
I can't help with the actual Silvine bus because I don't have one ! But as they are supposed to be a copy of the Eheim busses I wil open one of mine up later and try to figure out the wiring. The Silvine bus from your photos seems to use an AC motor as do the Eheim busses so may be the same wiring.
One suugestion is that you may have the Field coil wired the wrong way round. Marklin AC motors have two windings in opposite directions so that they can reverse - maybe reversing the connections on the field coil will reverse the motor-just a guess .
Colin.
 
Thank you Colin-that's what I was thinking. I'm also thinking maybe I have it grounded incorrectly-like I said, it's running great, only backwards!!
 
I found this website, in German-translated by google. Although I have not found my issue, it's pretty interesting
You could join a German forum and ask there, even if you put the query in English someone would be able to help.
 
The motor in the Eheim bus is as I suspected wired in series with the field coil.
The diagram below shows the basic circuit without the rear lamp and trailer connections.
Viewing from the motor towards the front the left hand trolley arm is connected to a yellow wire while the right hand arm connects through the steering plate in the base of the bus.
The yellow wire first goes to the outside of the front lampholder ( screw thread) and then to the motor field coil winding.
The other end of the field winding goes to the front motor brush and the rear motor brush is connected to the motor frame and then to the base of the front lamp and to the steering plate at the front of the bus.

The bus insides.
Bus.JPG


Wiring Diagram.
Wiring.JPG


Hope this helps, Colin.
 

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Just an observation but when my bus wheels rotate in the forward direction the motor runs in reverse due to the gearing !
A silly question but is the motor running in the correct direction for the wheels or is it really running the wrong way ?
Colin.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm working right now-I maiy not get back to this thing for a day or two. But your question is not silly. I put it all back together, body, tires, everything, and it is driven backwards by the motor. I need to take it apart again and see what's going on.
Thanks for all your help and advice
Tom
 
Just an observation but when my bus wheels rotate in the forward direction the motor runs in reverse due to the gearing !
A silly question but is the motor running in the correct direction for the wheels or is it really running the wrong way ?
Colin.
Colin,
Thanks for your photos, I tried your recommendation, moving that top wire off the motor coil onto the other lead, but now I'm back where I started, getting the humming, and no spin in the motor.
Oh well, I have time
Thanks
Tom
 
Hi Tom.
Very strange ! I checked three of my busses and they are all wired in the way I described !
I can only think that Silvine busses are wired in a different way.
Let's hope an owner of a Silvine bus finds this post or you find more info online.
Regards, Colin.

Addition - I have emailed a contact in New Mexico who had one of these busses in the hope he can send photos of his bus insides if he still has it.
 
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Colin,
I went to the train show in Allentown pa two Saturdays ago, and I took the motor with me. I showed one guy, and he identified it right away! He said they're very difficult to work on. Another guy recommended grounding it, to that frame? which screws to the motor and has the lights connected to it. That's when I got it running, but backwards. No biggy. I have plenty of other thigs to work on, and I'm starting to get my garden ready, too. There's always something.
Next Saturday I'm going to another show and I'll take it down there, hopefully I'll get lucky. Someone will set me straight.
And I have plenty of time..
Thanks again for your interest and help
Tom
 
Hi Tom.
Very strange ! I checked three of my busses and they are all wired in the way I described !
I can only think that Silvine busses are wired in a different way.
Let's hope an owner of a Silvine bus finds this post or you find more info online.
Regards, Colin.

Addition - I have emailed a contact in New Mexico who had one of these busses in the hope he can send photos of his bus insides if he still has it.
I'm sure I'm doing something incorrectly.
 



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