Good news all around but give me your thoughts.

[irocinblue89]

Hello,
I want to explain my enthusiasm first. My son who moved away with his mother is moving back home! We started a layout and was really getting into it when we got the bad news. I tore it down because it was just to big for me. That's the other good news. We get to make something better than what we had.
Before I go any further I would like to thank fellow member MYOWNGOD for allowing me access to his hard work. I am grateful. He redesigned a layout by John Armstrong and drew it with XTrackCAD. He graciously allowed me to use that and I modified it to fit my space. He did the hard work though.
I am really excited about the new design. It uses the available space and has multiple layers along with switching and just orbiting if wanted. I would like you guys to give me any input on things I may be missing or things that would be better "this way". Any and all constructive criticism is welcome. I tried to get all of the mainline 28" or larger radius. I am having a hard time getting the grade to 2% or less. I need to work on that. The blue track is the mainline, the pink and orange are staging, the purple is siding/yard, and the green is the branch line. How does the yard look? Industry, switching, and general track plan?
Again, I cannot convey how excited I am for my son to come home. His excitement to build another layout has got me tweaked.

 

[blackz28]

hey seann thats great news !!! funny my son how hasnt really talked to me since i moved down here , well outta the blu e he texted me about the 2 4-8-4 & wanting to remotor them, its a nice to have your son back in your life isnt it & no you cant get your big boy back

 

[Rico]

Took me a while to figure out the elvations but it looks like something that would keep several operators busy!
The yard looks like it has leads on both ends, nice.
The broad curves will be sweet!
I think you guys will have a lot of fun building it!

 

[steinjr]

Despite this being based on a track plan by John Armstrong, this is a design which has narrow aisles and long reaches. John did that sometime (he was a thin man) - and it is possible that "myowngod" has made aisles even narrower and reaches longer, but by modern design standards this looks too cramped.

Is there walls on all sides?

Stein

 

[irocinblue89]

Despite this being based on a track plan by John Armstrong, this is a design which has narrow aisles and long reaches. John did that sometime (he was a thin man) - and it is possible that "myowngod" has made aisles even narrower and reaches longer, but by modern design standards this looks too cramped.

Is there walls on all sides?

Stein

Thanks for the cheers guys! Stein: you know in all my haste I never even considered isle width or reach. I assumed it wasn't an issue since MYOWNGOD never mentioned them or complained. I will send him a message and ask how big of an issue they are. As far as your question the layout is against a wall on the north and east side. The south side has a wall at the given dimensions but the west side has nothing. Do you think these are deal breakers or do you think it can be tweaked to eliminate a lot of the isle and reach issues and keep the same general theme? Thanks for the input!

 

[blackz28]

the reach seems to be 7' wow can that be right ?? unless you can duck under to get to the otherside

 

[LoudMusic]

There is a rectangular operator opening in the upper left and an irregular shaped operator opening in the lower right. Even so, the reaches seem to be quite long.

I think what Stein is getting at is, would you be interested in abandoning this plan in order to design (with assistance) a layout that uses all the walls and creates fewer locations where the reach is too much and eliminate popup areas.

 

[irocinblue89]

I think what Stein is getting at is, would you be interested in abandoning this plan in order to design (with assistance) a layout that uses all the walls and creates fewer locations where the reach is too much and eliminate popup areas.

Yes, I would definitely be willing to abandon it IF the general consensus is that another design would have most of the elements that this one has. I guess what I am getting at is: Is the space big enough for my wishes or are the isle sizes and reaches a direct result of trying to put to much in a limited space?

Loud, did you have something in mind?

Black: How is the bigboy? Do you like it?

 

[steinjr]

As far as your question the layout is against a wall on the north and east side. The south side has a wall at the given dimensions but the west side has nothing. Do you think these are deal breakers or do you think it can be tweaked to eliminate a lot of the isle and reach issues and keep the same general theme?

You certainly could do something along the same general theme and shape - but maybe merge the two lobes at lower right into one lobe, move it it all the way down to the lower wall (creating a much wider central aisle), and put in much larges access holes in both lobes (upper left and lower right).

As it is, you have some pretty small access holes pretty far from the edge - I suspect it is going to be a pain to crawl in and out of them.

Smile,
Stein

 

[choops]

I used my scissors. But you get the idea. eliminate some grades. keeps most of the same features.
Steve

 

[irocinblue89]

You certainly could do something along the same general theme and shape - but maybe merge the two lobes at lower right into one lobe, move it it all the way down to the lower wall (creating a much wider central aisle), and put in much larges access holes in both lobes (upper left and lower right).

As it is, you have some pretty small access holes pretty far from the edge - I suspect it is going to be a pain to crawl in and out of them.

Smile,
Stein

Stein, I will see if I can come up with something like that. I agree that the access holes are an issue. I will try to improve those also.

I used my scissors. But you get the idea. eliminate some grades. keeps most of the same features.

Steve, I like that a lot but two things that stick out is the duck under (which I hated on our last layout), and in the lower left corner it intrudes into the existing shower area. It is not a full shower but a shower curtain. I know if I intrude into there the wife will not be happy. That is a battle I am willing to concede in hopes that later engagements with her one might go my way.

 

[irocinblue89]

Here is a quick merged blobs drawing and an overall basement drawing. The red lines in the basement drawing was the border lines of the original layout. I can't put my finger on it but the merged drawing is not appealing to me for some reason. I have to get on XTrackCAD and put some track in though before I write that off.

 

[steinjr]

Steve, I like that a lot but two things that stick out is the duck under (which I hated on our last layout)

Err - if you are hating duck-unders, why replace a simple duck under (which could be a lift-up section or swing gate) with a duck under that forces you to crawl under many feet of layout and then get up into a small hole?

Smile,
Stein

 

[steinjr]

Here is a quick merged blobs drawing and an overall basement drawing. The red lines in the basement drawing was the border lines of the original layout. I can't put my finger on it but the merged drawing is not appealing to me for some reason. I have to get on XTrackCAD and put some track in though before I write that off.

Hmm - so the layout area is the lower right hand corner of your basement?

Stein

 

[irocinblue89]

Err - if you are hating duck-unders, why replace a simple duck under (which could be a lift-up section or swing gate) with a duck under that forces you to crawl under many feet of layout and then get up into a small hole? Hmm - so the layout area is the lower right hand corner of your basement?

Stein

Yes, I do hate duck unders, but I justified it by thinking to myself that with a duck under I needed to use it every single time I wanted to enter the layout. With the access holes, I based my assumption on the # of times I use them at the club. (Knock on wood) I have very, very few problems with my equipment at club. Others around me are all over the place. I routinely run 100+ car trains with helpers and/or pushers. I just assumed I would be able to maintain the same standards at home. Besides, if I do have an issue, that's what kids are for!
As far as the layout area goes, yes, it is the lower right hand of the basement. I would like to keep it confined from the laundry chute over to the right.

 

[LoudMusic]

I don't have my software tools with me to draw my idea, but maybe I can talk through it.

Start with a reversing loop lobe in the top left corner (next to the laundry chute).
Follow the wall rightward to the corner, with a shelf 24 to 30 inches deep.
Turn the corner and go down following the wall to the lower right corner.
Turn the corner and go left following the wall to the bathroom wall corner.
Go up the bathroom wall to the corner.
Turn 45 degrees toward the middle of the room and put the second reversing lobe as a large peninsula in the center, including the turntable/roundhouse, etc.

You would need a pop-up in the upper left lobe, potentially. Everything else could be designed with reach access from the aisle and the aisle could be 30" wide"

 

[irocinblue89]

I don't have my software tools with me to draw my idea, but maybe I can talk through it.

Start with a reversing loop lobe in the top left corner (next to the laundry chute).
Follow the wall rightward to the corner, with a shelf 24 to 30 inches deep.
Turn the corner and go down following the wall to the lower right corner.
Turn the corner and go left following the wall to the bathroom wall corner.
Go up the bathroom wall to the corner.
Turn 45 degrees toward the middle of the room and put the second reversing lobe as a large peninsula in the center, including the turntable/roundhouse, etc.

You would need a pop-up in the upper left lobe, potentially. Everything else could be designed with reach access from the aisle and the aisle could be 30" wide"

I didn't put the pop ups in but Is this what you were describing?

 

[steinjr]

I didn't put the pop ups in but Is this what you were describing?

I would think perhaps more like this:

Linear - comes from under table staging (going down e.g. 6" in 20 feet of run at either end is about 2.5% slope), runs once through each scene, walk-along possible.

Tries to keep track within 2 feet of the aisle (although scenery in corners and on blobs can be deeper, tries to keep aisles at at least 3 feet (although a few choke points are acceptable).

Use backdrops/viewblocks to separate the two sides of the peninsula from each other, and to hide a sizable access pit in upper left hand corner blob

Use 35" radius curves on visible track, 30" radius on turnback blob in lower left (but visually hidden behind an outer backdrop - a "belinadrop").

The view for a visitor is a long view down along the scenery and yard at the left, down along a shorter peninsula at right, with room in scene 7 for a train to run on a short section higher up than the main track below.

If you feel adventuresome, you could run a short staging track into the bathroom, or have the railroad loop through a corner of the bathroom (inside a glass box), so someone using the bathroom can see the train pass through. Would have been a heck of an effect - but perhaps hard to get permission for

Smile,
Stein

 

[DougC]

Irocinblue89:

I had a thought I'd share with you while you and steinjr et al are hashing out bigger decisions.

I put a pop-up in my layout 19 years ago and wound up never using it. When working on that area I lean over and stretch when needed, which isn't often.

So, why haven't I ever used the pop-up? Well, ahem, just about every square inch under the layout is taken up with storage items (including a lot of model railroad items) and I just didn't want to take the time to remove enough items to make an under-table isle, crawl in and out, then replace all the items. And as I get older (I'm 64) crawling around is less and less attractive.

Maybe storing items under you layout isn't/won't be an issue, but because our house is rather small I use the space under the layout for storage and have put a light beige-colored floor-length "skirting" all around the two visible sides of the layout so it looks nice (and no one can see the organized clutter underneath.)

DougC

 

[irocinblue89]

Let me start off by saying thank you to everyone who has helped so far. Sorry my replies have died off here recently. I got hammered at work.
Back to the subject.
Stein: I really like that design. Would you mind if I used it to try out a full track plan? The only thing I wish it had was more levels of visible/scenic area. I might try to make it a multi deck so I don't have to put double mains in. Maybe. There might not be enough room to get good separation for the levels. The access hole can be a little smaller because there is no wall on the west side.
DougC: Storage is not an issue because of all the shelves on the extreme north wall of the basement. Plus the wine cellar. I do get what you are saying though. The underside of the club layout is jamb packed and it is a pain.