Going to attempt something different

[Nucular]

Every model railroad I have seen focuses centerly around freight and freight operations.

After digging more into passenger railroad operations. I will be attempting to make an HO layout focused on passenger operations. When I took more looks at passenger train service, I never realized how the yards while simplier, the service itself is vastly complex, even more so than regular freight.

During my planning phase, I plan to incorporate at least the following elements:
1. At least two main terminals with stations between.
2. Passenger rail yards located near both terminals.
3. Dinner car services located throughout the layout. Passenger trains constantly changed out dinning cars, due to the fact that they had to be cleaned, new food put in, and the water supply refreshed.
4. Depending on which era I chose to model, multiple baggage cars, as baggage cars were also used to carry cargo such as milk, and other items.
5. Surps off the main line, in which the train was divided and certain cars went off into another direction and thus to a different town.

As I begin to figure this out, I am quickly realizing the need for switcher engines located near multiple stations on spur tracks, so that they can pull a dinner car out, divide a train, etc...

 

[Gary B]

In the hey day of the passenger train Chicago, as the rail hub of the nation, had more land devoted to passenger trains than the entire downtown business district. This was to the south and west of the Loop. I would venture at least a 3 to 1 ratio.

 

[Selector]

The two commodities that trumped passenger traffic on railroads in the early 20th century were meat and silk, in that order. They were even set in place on the head end, and were designated as 'head end' cars right behind the locomotive so that they could be taken by the road engine or a switcher quickly to a drop off or to be attached to an on-going train.

Passengers came third, but a solid third.

Not only were dining cars set out and serviced in a designated servicing area, but they were often turned end-for-end and set into trains so that first class passengers didn't have to walk past the galley and office.

I never thought I would get into the hobby as heavily as many who claimed to have scores of locomotives in totes, and hundreds of cars of 'most any description. But one area where I have yet to penny pinch and that is in passenger consists. So far, only the UP and C&O are without passenger cars on my roster. The CP, N&W, PRR, ATSF, and NYC all have three or more cars. To me, they are a must. Those and loooonnng coal drags.

 

[trailrider]

Not to throw kerosene on a small fire, but if you really like passenger trains, especially ones that can intermix cars from "separate" railroads in a single train, take a look at the 1940's-1960's Burlington/Northern Pacific/Great Northern lines. In fact, these separate lines were really interlocked and used motive power pools. Between Chicago and St. Paul, the NP North Coast Limited and the GN Empire Builder (and other trains on each road) were generally pulled by Burlington E-units. Indeed, a number of the cars painted for the individual roads were owned by the other roads, as indicated by small letters at the upper right corner of the sides of the cars. Or, you could ride the Twin Cities Zephyrs from Chicago to St. Paul and back.

 

[Nucular]

In the hey day of the passenger train Chicago, as the rail hub of the nation, had more land devoted to passenger trains than the entire downtown business district. This was to the south and west of the Loop. I would venture at least a 3 to 1 ratio.

Funny that you mentioned Chicago. As the route I am more or less basing my layout on will be the classic Chicago-Milwaukee Route. Then again I have been on that train multiple times.

I have started to noice how much physical space a passenger layout actually takes up. It is going to be funny to see the train take up basically the whole layout, with little more for business.

But regardless I will have to make it fit somehow. Most likely will have some breweries on the route, as Milwaukee is known for beer.

 

[trailrider]

Funny that you mentioned Chicago. As the route I am more or less basing my layout on will be the classic Chicago-Milwaukee Route. Then again I have been on that train multiple times.

I have started to noice how much physical space a passenger layout actually takes up. It is going to be funny to see the train take up basically the whole layout, with little more for business.

But regardless I will have to make it fit somehow. Most likely will have some breweries on the route, as Milwaukee is known for beer.

There is no question that passenger trains require a fair amount of space. My layout is in a 14' x 14' dedicated room with a folded dogbone plan, including a pennisula. I basically restrict my passenger trains to six or seven cars, depending on what motive power I use. In almost all cases my passenger cars are 72-ft. older Athearn streamline and heavyweight, with some of the newer Con-Cor 72-ft also. One train, a Denver/California Zephyr, does have some older actual aluminum body cars that are in the 82 ft length. I mix these with the shorter cars, as the combinations take my 18/20 in. radius curves better. When I run steam locos, primarily with Athearn heavyweights, I am generally restricted to 4 or 5 cars, depending on the consist, as the tender takes up enough length to require the shorter train so they will fit on passing sidings, etc. The Zephyr OTOH is pulled by a Burlington E5A/E8A with multiple dome cars and the round-end observation. Some other trains are simply pulled by F3 or F7 A/B motors. Selective compression to the n-th power, I guess.

 

[Rico]

I am getting more interested in passenger operations lately, and a friend of mine does pretty much just passenger.
Make sure you have at least one or two freights to get in the way tho!

 

[Gary B]

Remember Chicago has a lot of building built on 'air rights' over these very tracks, as is Union Station. So you get some space by going up! Ironicly, one of those buidlings over the tracks is Boeing's headquarter.

 

[dave1905]

Every model railroad I have seen focuses centerly around freight and freight operations.

After digging more into passenger railroad operations. I will be attempting to make an HO layout focused on passenger operations.

Might want to dig in a little more. In Google Books search for an author named Droege, he wrote numerous books in the 1930's about passenger and freight terminal design.

3. Dinner car services located throughout the layout. Passenger trains constantly changed out dinning cars, due to the fact that they had to be cleaned, new food put in, and the water supply refreshed.

And that happened every 500-1000 miles. You can restock a diner without removing it from the train. Attach a water hose to the water tank and just hand up boxes of food. That's why there is typically a door in the side of the diner where the kitchen area is.

Normally diners were only switched out at major terminals where they had a comissary. For example if your railroad is just between those two terminals, it probably wouldn't even have diner service. Diner service is usually offered on trains that operate over 6 hours or so during daylight hours. For example the Reading railroad operated hundreds of passenger trains a day, but they were most short runs so they only owned a handful of diners.
When my family moved form New York to Philadelphia in the 1960's we went by train on the PRR. There was no dining service on the train, they did push a cart up the coach aisles much like on airlines today selling sandwhiches and snacks.

4. Depending on which era I chose to model, multiple baggage cars, as baggage cars were also used to carry cargo such as milk, and other items.

There were mail trains and express trains that had multiple baggage cars. Unloading baggage and especially milk, as a slow process, all manual, so only the slowest trains would stop at every station to load and unload baggage and milk (hence the term for a slow trip that stops everywhere as a "milk run"). Pretty much a train that has diners and pullmans is not going to have a lot of baggage cars, just enough for the passengers. The railroad won't want to delay the train to load and unload express and won't want the weight to slow down the train.

5. Surps off the main line, in which the train was divided and certain cars went off into another direction and thus to a different town.

Have no idea what a "surp" is but splitting trains normally only happened at major terminals with major junctions between routes. Probably 95-99% of all passenger trains operated without splitting or setting out anywhere (other than origin and destination).

As I begin to figure this out, I am quickly realizing the need for switcher engines located near multiple stations on spur tracks, so that they can pull a dinner car out, divide a train, etc...

Its not as frequent as you would imagine. Those locations will be 100-500 miles apart. For example on the UP between Omaha and LA, they would be at Omaha, Cheyenne, Salt Lake City and then LA.

 

[Nucular]

Meant to type the word "spur" instead of "surp". Just a typo. Thanks for the additional information. I will definitely look into Droege and see what comes up.

Chicago is kind of neat in the regard that there are buildings over the tracks in certain locations. It definitely allows for a lot of modeling possibilities.

 

[trailrider]

I have no idea of the operating details, but I vaguely remember as a little kid going with my mother to visit her folks (probably while my Dad was overseas during WWII), where we took a night train from Chicago to downstate Illinois. In the middle of the night, there was a bang and a jolt as our sleeper was switched out at either Galesburg or Burlington, IA, for the trip down the Mississippi to Quincy, IL. The train we boarded in Chicago apparently went further West, hence the switchout of the sleeper. IIRC, the car was a heavyweight, with the heavy green curtains and the upper and lower berths that the Pullman porter would make up just after we left Union Station.

 

[Motley]

Oh very nice! I love passenger type layouts. I have two big passenger stations on my layout. Although my layout is modern era, most of my passenger trains are excursion service.

My good friend Rich, who lives in Chicago. He built a HUGE passenger centric layout, with Dearborn Station. I went to see him this past summer, and we ran some passenger operations, and it was loads of fun.

His layout is 33' x 28' basement filler.

 

[Gary B]

Micheal, More pictures of your friends layout please!!! That could pass as the back end of the Dearborn St. station. (ATSF & others)

 

[Motley]

Yes he did a great job of modeling Dearborn. He also just recently built an 8 track coach yard.

Here are more pics...

 

[Gary B]

Yes he did do a great job on Dearborn station. Did he scratch build the whole thing or kit bash it? The tall roofs burned like a hundred years ago. The shed came down in 70s or 80s. The building itself is now a shopping complex. I once saw The Flying Dutchman there when it was still an active station.

 

[Motley]

Gary,

No he didn't scratch build it. He used the Walthers Hiawatha Milwaukee station kit, and the train sheds. He used two train sheds, and left the cover off one of them.

 

[Cjcrescent]

This was the article that convinced me to have a better passenger train op other than saying, "OK, time to run the passenger train!"

Make mine passenger operation - terminal trackplan & ops
by Orgibet, Jorges

It was in the November 1974 MR. He described how his plan was set up and how many "ops" servicing the terminal and trains would consist of. The really unique thing was his terminal had all this operation and wasn't very big at all, I think 10 x 15' or so. The number of moves was phenomenal. The impression I got from the article was this may have been his entire layout.

But the point was how to run a passenger terminal. Now while his was setup for several passenger trains, the ops he described can be easily modified to suit whatever size terminal the train will be in. I highly suggest that you try to get a copy of the article and read it.

 

[35tac]

Passenger Station

Now that is nice! Thanks for sharing.
Wayne

 

[montanan]

Passenger service was a very important part of railroading. I can remember as a kid riding on passenger trains, and it was great. The Milwaukee Roads Hiawatha and the Northern Pacifics North Coast Limited were the two main railorads in out area and I would have liked to have a larger space so I could do justice for more passenger service. Enjoy !

 

[Gary B]

I thought that looked like the Milwaukee station kit. He really cut it down a lot.