Finally!

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chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
Yippe!
I finally got my trackplan today! Iwas designed by someone on another forum, who is a designer! As you can see there are huge elevation changes in those switchbacks! It is 12' by 9' and will be put on my patio, with a special cover! I will explain everything else on it later, like what those structures are. For know, here it is, http://www.railimages.com/gallery/album314/aaa
Enjoy,
Chris
 

NWR #200

Irish Expatriate
Looks good. If I could make a suggestion, you should probably put a run around siding in there so you can get to the other end of your cars.
 

CBCNSfan

Registered Member
Staff member
Chris, do you have anyone to help you with this project? With all those switchbacks It certainly looks like an ambitious one for a first layout. I like it, it has lot's of operating scenarios. At first glance I'd say the design is for rugged country scenery and operations

Willis
 

cuyama

Member
A run-around looks like a passing siding and allows you to swap your engine from one end of the train to the other. Most logging lines had these so that the engine could be on the downhill end of the train when descending (for safety) and it would make your layout much more realistic to include at least one.

Other challenges in the plan as drawn are that the tail tracks of the switchbacks are shorter than they could be in the space that you have. That artificially limits train length. Also the many parallel tracks will lead to a wedding-cake like "stepped" appearance. If that's what you are looking for, fine. But it's not really typical of the real logging railroads, which had to follow the terrain a bit more.

regards,

Byron
http://www.modelrail.us
 
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chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
cuyama said:
A run-around looks like a passing siding and allows you to swap your engine from one end of the train to the other. Most logging lines had these so that the engine could be on the downhill end of the train when descending (for safety) and it would make your layout much more realistic to include at least one.

Other challenges in the plan as drawn are that the tail tracks of the switchbacks are shorter than they could be in the space that you have. That artificially limits train length. Also the many parallel tracks will lead to a wedding-cake like "stepped" appearance. If that's what you are looking for, fine. But it's not really typical of the real logging railroads, which had to follow the terrain a bit more.

regards,

Byron
http://www.modelrail.us
ohh, I should've known that! Thank you! I will ask the designer! I have limited the trains to only 4 cars, so they don't have trouble whatsoever.
 

modelbob

Administrator
chrismoore93 said:
...As you can see there are huge elevation changes in those switchbacks!...
Which brings up the question of what you'll do where three tracks are essentially side by side. How will you accomplish the elevation difference there? Logging railroads weren't known for having huge retaining walls or other extensive earthwork if they can avoid it.

Personally, I'd consider re-aligning the tracks a bit, and spreading those apart some... You can tighten up the curves, logging locos don't minde that.
 

modelbob

Administrator
OK, I just saw the second version...

I hate to be a nitpicker, but I have some real concerns. 4 tunnels? Try and find a logging railroad that had 1 tunnel. (Yes, some did, but they were rare) They would do anything they could to avoid them. That's why a Shay or Climax can turn so sharply and climb so well. You build switchbacks to get over obstacles you can't afford to tunnel through. Or you go around them.

6 bridges? Man, this line must have some real bucks...

I'll tell you one thing, any civil engineer worth his paycheck would immediately reduce that to 5 bridges. Got any idea what it costs to build a bridge? There is absolutely no reason to have that turnout (switch) on the far side of the river and build a second track. Even if you are gaining elevation, you don't gain enough in that short of a distance to justify that bridge.

Move it to the other side of the river, delete one bridge, and save the logging company a huge chunk of cash... Now, about those tunnels...

(PS - It's your railroad, build it any way you like. I'm just making observations based on my research of prototype logging railroads.)
 

chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
Thank you kindly Bob. I'm thinking about the railroad myself. THIS IS NOT A FINAL DRAFT! I have been working on ways to improve the railroad as much as I can. I will update you with any changes.
Chris
 

chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
This is disisme, the designer of Chris's railroad.

One thing that Chris didnt mention was the fact that this was drawn up
in under 10 minutes, and the grades were established based upon the
maximum possible over that space (32 inches in elevation), which is
obviously WAY too much for a first layout, and probably too much for an
experienced person too!

The points you have all made are all good and very true, but lets take
a couple of things into consideration. 1) Chris is 13 years old. 2)
the layout is, very much, a 10 minute effort, and is in draft 1, 3) we
arent going for full prototypical operation here, so we wont be counting
rivets. 4) I will be giving Chris tutorials on how to do a LOT of
things to get him started (like scratch building a trestle).

Having said that, everything you've said is absolutely correct, and I
realise they are all there to help Chris develop his first layout. He's
so keen to get started its a wonderous experience to interact with him.
The layout will definitely be 'flattened out' quite a bit, plus a lot
more operations will be added, just to keep him interested (there very
little actual operation at this stage), because, dread the thought, I
wouldnt want to be responsible for someone so enthusiastic becoming
bored!
Hi guys, this is from the designer of my layout. You know him Willis!LOL The problem is being taken care of!
 

CBCNSfan

Registered Member
Staff member
You know him Willis! LOL The problem is being taken care of!
Hi Chris, I'm glad you have backing of your family and help from your uncle to build your layout and that disisme will do a followup in case you get into difficulties, which I'm sure are bound to happen. As I said it is an ambitious project for a first layout but certainly doable. I note a benchwork plan has been submitted for you by hotshot also and I hope you will take advantage of it. Now that you've decided on a plan I wish you good luck with it and I trust you will keep us posted with some photos :D

Willis
 

chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
CBCNSfan said:
Hi Chris, I'm glad you have backing of your family and help from your uncle to build your layout and that disisme will do a followup in case you get into difficulties, which I'm sure are bound to happen. As I said it is an ambitious project for a first layout but certainly doable. I note a benchwork plan has been submitted for you by hotshot also and I hope you will take advantage of it. Now that you've decided on a plan I wish you good luck with it and I trust you will keep us posted with some photos :D

Willis
Thanks Willis, we are gonna change the plan a little. I'm very excited to start on thise project, and glad I have other people who are model railroaders to help me ;)
 

modelbob

Administrator
OK, here's my version. A half hour or so of noodling around with 3rd Planit and Image Composer.

I've only included the main tracks and sidings. The mill area would be quite a bit more complicated, but I've left that out for now.

Here's the highlights...

By changing the benchwork, I've allowed room for a turnback loop to add more interest. It's 18 inch radius, plenty wide for loggers. The only downside is that you may need an access hatch for that area.

The main line has 3 tunnels. (Grey track) They're cool, so why not? By saying it's a main track, rather than a logging line, it makes it more likely that they'd spend the money to build tunnels. Also, the 3rd tunnel is also staging. You can bring in boxcars to load out finished lumber from the mill, plus other freight and maybe even passenger trains.

I've added a log dump to provide someplace to deliver the logs.

The switchback is still there but hopefully doesn't overwhelm the layout.

Plenty of trestles (red track) but arranged in a way that doesn't end up with 3 or 4 of them side by side.

The logging camp is away from the mill, providing visual seperation.

I added two load out tracks for more switching, as well as a run-around track at the upper level.
 

disisme

New Member
Bob, this is dis, and I finally decided to register here so I can talk to you guys (gday Willis!!).

I like it...an interesting modification that goes about as close as you can get to continuous run without actually having it :) With the layout elevation changes being significantly reduced, it allows that 'return loop' to be viable. Operations are significantly enhanced too, which is the important part. I think this layout is a very good (in fact, excellent) starting point for someone like Chris. Good work buddy.

About the only thing I'd change is to have another bridge...at least 1....to provide that 'spectacular photo point', but if the scenery is right, the one you've included may do the job.
 
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chrismoore93

Central Phoenix Railroad
Thank you Bob. I think it may be a layout I would like to use! I think it there can be alot of stuff that can be added in the layout. I can't wait to see the second half!
-Chris
 

CBCNSfan

Registered Member
Staff member
G'day Roger nice ta see yuh postin here. Hope yu'll come back often :D
I don't know I still like the idea of a geared loco sasheying back and forth on the switchbacks to get over the hill, I'd bet the layout would be one of a kind and with well thought out scenery would be a masterpiece, anyway that's the way I'm seeing it in my visions. Bob your plan is very nice but it's so "model railroad" too much track without a genuine purpose. Just my opinion :D
Willis
 

disisme

New Member
Willis, the switchback is still there, though once it 'crests' it rolls back down to 'normal' ground level. While the elevation wont be nearly as high, that was one of the difficult points for Chris to cope with on his first layout..... Bobs version is more of a roller coaster ride.

Experienced guys, or people with good wood working skills, could use the 32" elevation change layout quite easily, and it certainly would look impressive, but it was rather too ambitious to start with. From a long term perspective, Bobs layout has more 'interest' for someone new to the hobby.

Thats my 2c worth :)
 

modelbob

Administrator
disisme said:
Willis, the switchback is still there, though once it 'crests' it rolls back down to 'normal' ground level...
No, that track is intended to be a lot higher than the mainline. The logging camp is on a high bluff, above the main track, with a steep hillside dropping off to the mainline. That's what the dark brown is supposed to show, steep hills / cliff.
 




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