Experience with my very first Athearn locomotive.....

[Diesel-Electric]

Hello there,


You guys remember my post on Athearn GP38-2 (and their diesels) asking if they were good? Well, I took the decision to go ahead and get one as there was positive replies.

Yesturday after a long wait I received my very first Athearn locomotive: RTR GP38-2, Norfolk Southern #5287.

I like to share my experience I had with it.

First, got it out of the box, I noticed a small piece of metal just lying there in the box.

Going thru the exploded parts diagram, I couldn't see any part resembling this piece I found. So after assuming maybe not a part of the locomotive, I decided to go ahead and break in the loco (I run all my new locos for one hour with no cars/load before putting into service).

And, the first problem comes: the "fire cracker" cab/headlight wasn't working! Now, I am going to install constant brightness/directional LED headlights soon, but come on, brand-new locomotive. So I assumed that metal piece was from the light assembly and opened the locomotive. Guess what: the metal strip in the light assembly wasn't touching the lower one. Bent it a bit and voila!

Now, put the shell back on chassis, and opened to 1/2 throttle (DC). Locomotive is really noisy, (my Bachmann GP40 without flywheel(s) is quieter!) But it ran smooth, with good low speed performance. So began the break in.

Now, second problem comes up: just 2 rounds on my track, each time it entered the straight section it made a loud noise similar to that of a bird chirping! I was like "oh no".

I let it run anyway assuming after a few rounds the noise would go away. Well, it got worse. So I stopped the locomotive, And upon inspection, found that the rear truck end axle was wider than the other axles and was rubbing against the side frame. Ran locomotive without side frames, no noise, pushed the two wheels in with fingers, re-installed side frames and no noise!

Now it runs well, and after the break in run, hauled a consist of 6 50' box cars, no problems! Motor is noisy unlike my Proto 1000 GP15-1, Bachmann GP40 and Walthers GP-9u, but hey, who said the prototype made no noise?

What I'm trying to say here is that, it's a pity, because it's really well detailed and painted for the price you pay for it. I would say it is really worth it. But when things like this happen.....and after reading the experience other modellers have had with these locomotives, no wonder Athearns get a bad rap!

I just hope their new Genesis GP38-2 won't follow the same quality control as that would be really bad for them!

Well on a lighter note, I still really like it. So much so, I'm thinking of getting another Athearn RTR GP38-2, a sister NS unit for #5287.


What do you guys think? Have to say?


Still wondering what that small metal piece is.........

 

[Doughless]

Most Athearn RTR GP's have the "coffee grinder" sound due to decades old motor technology and liberal tolerances. Some are worse than others. Frankly, it is so widely known that anyone doing any research on locomotive purchases would have known this characteristic going in. That's not meant as a criticism of your research, but the noise has been a widely-known characteristic for decades. Its part of the low purchase price of the locomotive relative to others.

The QC issues of the "cab fryer" headlight strip not touching the other and the sideframe being pushed in a bit too far seem to be simple errors that can happen with the realities of factory assembly. Actually, compared to some of the QC issues other have reported in their higher priced Genesis line, the items you mentioned seem rather mild.

Forever, the Athearn GP38-2 was always price competitive, considering it is generally a robust and dimensionally accurate locomotive with generally nice tooling detail, albeit with noisy mechanicals. But now, their MSRP is upwards of $70, making them a poor buy, IMO. Hope you got your for less.

I value slow speed performance and, like you, found mine to perform well at slow speeds. They just sound like they aren't performing well. However, 2 of the 4 I own sound just like cylinders firing combined with electrical motors whirring. Built-in factory sound without the DCC, if you're lucky.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Stock Athearns can be made to run extremely quietly, if you willing to put in the sweat equity. This is a synopsis of what I used to give as a clinic at various conventions/train shows. I called it, "Making a Silk Purse out of a Sow's Ear".

First thing to do is totally disassemble the loco down to all its parts. Put the motor aside for now. Wash all the parts and gears of the chassis in a good degreaser to remove any old lubrication. Then take each individual gear and examine it under magnification for burrs and flash lines. Take a series of jewelers files and lightly remove these burrs. When this is finished inspect each truck frame part for the same, and remove.

After this is done reassemble each truck. Take a non-abrasive cleanser, regular cleanser will not work, like Bon-Ami or Bar Keeper's Friend, and place approx. one teaspoon of the powder into the gearing. Re-attach the worm and gear cover, and chuck the whole assembly into a dremel tool or high speed drill. Run up to max speed. Make sure you hold onto the truck to prevent spinning on the drill/dremel axis. After a minute or so, let go of the truck. If you've done the job right, the truck will hang down and slightly sway without spinning.
Disassemble and carefully clean all of the cleanser out. Reassemble, lubing with tiny amounts of grease on the gears and oil in the bearings.

Now you turn to the motor. Remove the brush holders, very carefully, as those springs will shoot out and you'll never see them again. Remove the flywheels, these are a press fit. Cut two turns of the springs off. While the springs are removed, simply hold the motor and move the shaft back and forth in the motor frame. If there is any slop, carefully remove only one end of the motor. Place thrush washers on the shaft, to remove most of the slop. Reassemble with brushes and springs in place. Lube bearings on each end. Apply power to brushes, and clean the commutator with a pipe cleaner dipped in any solvent. Then while motor is still running, lightly lay a flat file on the commutator to remove any high spots where the brushes run on the shaft. When this is smooth, remove brushes and springs and re-clean the motor shaft, and areas around the commutator.

Reassemble the loco, place on track and see if it not only runs better but quieter. Sometimes they remain noisy, and that's due to slop in the drive shafts. I've been know to replace this with either Neoprene tubing or RC airplane fuel tubing.

Back when I had a majority of Athearn's in my roster, I did this to each and every one of my locos, and I never had a noise problem.

Some people just use Pearl Drops tooth polish on the gears, I don't recommend this as it doesn't get to the real root of the problem, which is flash and burrs on all surfaces in the trucks and not just the gears.

 

[diburning]

The newer RTR will require a flywheel puller if you wish to remove the flywheels.

The instructions that Carey provided will work wonders on all Athearn blue box and non-DCC ready RTR locomotives such as the GP38-2, GP40-2, and GP50. You can skip a few steps with the newer RTR engines with the DCC-ready light board.

 

[Rico]

Got a picture of the metal piece, I'm curious!
All good advise above, nothing I can add to that.
I'm slowly phasing out all my Athearn and BLI locos in favor of Atlas, Kato, and Proto units which can be found for similar prices of the RTR.
Oh... except my Athearn Genesis units!

 

[Old 97]

This is a synopsis of what I used to give as a clinic at various conventions/train shows. I called it, "Making a Silk Purse out of a Sow's Ear".

And his title says "Master Mechanic". Well written and great advice.

 

[joed2323]

wonderfull.....

I just bought a athearn genesis sd70m-2 dcc & sound..

I havent got it yet its on its way in shipment.

If i experience anything like your problems im gonna be pissed

Especially paying 205 for it. Yikes, im nervous

 

[Motley]

wonderfull.....

I just bought a athearn genesis sd70m-2 dcc & sound..

I havent got it yet its on its way in shipment.

If i experience anything like your problems im gonna be pissed

Especially paying 205 for it. Yikes, im nervous

They are talking about Athearn RTR. Now the Genesis locos are really nice and run quiet. You'll be happy with it.

 

[diburning]

wonderfull.....

I just bought a athearn genesis sd70m-2 dcc & sound..

I havent got it yet its on its way in shipment.

If i experience anything like your problems im gonna be pissed

Especially paying 205 for it. Yikes, im nervous

I have 4 of them. The only quality control issue with them is that the ditch lights lenses are press-fit and can fall out during shipping and/or while you're swapping couplers. The best way to fix this is to gather all of the lenses that fall out. Put a drop of white (Elmer's) glue on your index finger and rub with your thumb until it goes transparent. Then, roll the lens between your thumb and index finger to get a light coating of glue on it. Pop the lens back in, then wipe off the front. The white glue will dry transparent so it won't block any of the light from the ditch light bulbs.

Be careful when removing the engine from the box and check the box carefully for the lenses. If you lose a lens, you may never find it again! (If you call Athearn, they'll send you replacements)

 

[kjd]

I added up all the horsepower my locomotives would have if real and it was about 376,000. Of that, nearly a quarter million was Athearn. I learned a long time ago Athearn Blue Box is not really ready to run but can be made to run great, as Carey explained above, it just takes some finessing and sometimes a motor replacement.

I'm curious about the metal piece as well.

 

[Brakie]

I have 38 Athearn RTR locomotives,22 older BB locos,17 Atlas,1 Bachmann GE 70 Tonner and 1 P2K GP7.

Only the P2K had problems..Two grabs fell off on the short hood.I glued them so that took care of that problem.I plan on buying 3-4 more P2K locomotives.

OOPS! Both Athearn RTR CR GP60s had minor problems-one antenna was broken off on one locomotive and the other had a tiny chip in the paint that's only noticeable when view up close.Both are smooth runners.

I retiring my older BB locomotives since most are old and weary from years of club use..The only BB engines not being retired is my SW1500s.

Some day we should discuss freight cars.

 

[santafewillie]

Among my 80 or so diesels, I have over 40 BB Atheans and 12 RTR"s. I use them all with no problems. I always tune them up as Carey explained earlier, I learned how to do that years ago. What you have experienced is not unusual and not too severe. Ask some one who owns a Kato SD40-2 about their problems...I know by experience. It was at least 3x more expensive than Athearn when I bought it years ago. As far as pushing the wheels in, be sure you check all wheelsets with an NMRA gauge, eyeballing them doesn't always work. One of the best things about growing up with Athearn BB's is that you learn easily how to repair or tweak anything. I feel that this will be lost on the newer generation of modelers that only have access to RTR units.
willie

 

[diburning]

Here's my breakdown for engines:

14 Athearn RTRs
11 Athearn Genesis
18 Atlas
7 Atlas Trainman
2 Bachmann Spectrum
1 BLI
2 IHC/Mehano
4 Kato
8 Proto 2000
1 Walthers Trainline

1 Custom with a Bachmann Spectrum Drive
1 Athearn RTR 1500 shell on a BB drive.

I'd have to say, Athearn makes up quite a bit of my fleet. 26 Athearns, 25 Atlas, and the rest are different manufacturers.

 

[Cjcrescent]

... I always tune them up as Carey explained earlier, I learned how to do that years ago.... One of the best things about growing up with Athearn BB's is that you learn easily how to repair or tweak anything. I feel that this will be lost on the newer generation of modelers that only have access to RTR units.
willie

Willie, the process I used, I developed after much trial and error almost 40yrs ago, plus a little help from articles by Linn Westcott in old MR's. One of the things I used to do regarding motors was to completely take them apart and balance the commutator between two razor blades. This of course would greatly weaken the Alinco (sp) magnets in the motors at the time. The heavier side would always wind up on the bottom, and using a 1/8-3/16 drill, slowly remove some materials from the wafers. After I got the motor back together, I would place it in a motor remagnetizer, built from an old transformer, from one of those articles I mentioned. The motor would then run almost completely silent at that point and would hardly draw any amperage at all. Some how, over the years, I have lost that tool, and cannot find the article I used to build one with.

 

[Diesel-Electric]

Hello Guys!


Sorry for replying late, was away from home.

First thanks Cjcrescent, wow that sounds more like a overhaul than a tune up! I should mentioned that after running the locomotive for about 3 hours it has actually quieten down noticeably. Also low speed performance has improved too, requiring less throttle opening for it to get going. I ran it with 1/4 throttle with 3 50' freight cars and it crawled along nicely without stalling whatever. (my layout speed is restricted to 30 scale mph, I run generally at 25 scale mph, all roughly).

Also I must admit, I'm clumsy with my hands, and on more than one occasion have broken more than one of my HO scale locomotives trying to work on them. I'm nervous to open up one in general. But I'll give it a try when I'm fully equipped to perform the tune up.

The "coffee grinder" noise is something I'm willing to put up with as long as it has good low speed performance. Like Doughless says, it just sounds like its not performing well, when in fact it is.

Doughless said about the "coffee grinder" noise:

Most Athearn RTR GP's have the "coffee grinder" sound due to decades old motor technology and liberal tolerances. Some are worse than others. Frankly, it is so widely known that anyone doing any research on locomotive purchases would have known this characteristic going in. That's not meant as a criticism of your research, but the noise has been a widely-known characteristic for decades. Its part of the low purchase price of the locomotive relative to others.

No offense taken! I did watch Youtube videos of Athearn GP38-2s running, and did hear a small "growling noise" so I thought well it doesn't sound that much. Maybe the cameras weren't picking up the sounds to well. But, yes I did expect it to be quieter than it is.

Oh by the way Doughless:

However, 2 of the 4 I own sound just like cylinders firing combined with electrical motors whirring. Built-in factory sound without the DCC, if you're lucky.

Good one Doughless, I find that funny!

Also from Doughless:

Hope you got your for less.

$60. Yes, I think over $70 is a bit too much, but if you go over to the website, the new announcement(s) of the RTR GP38-2's MSRP is $100! They are nuts! Hopefully, places like MTS and Trainworld will offer them for less.


Doughless said:

Actually, compared to some of the QC issues other have reported in their higher priced Genesis line, the items you mentioned seem rather mild.

santafewillie said:

What you have experienced is not unusual and not too severe.

I agree, after reading some forums/reviews and articles and watching some videos on Youtube etc etc.......what I've experienced is mild.


Look what happen to this guy with an Athearn Genesis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ0DAj5Ll3I


I feel better after watching that and some other videos too.

Speaking of problems with "higher priced" lines having problems, one of the bigger disappointments I've had was with my "higher priced" Proto 1000 GP15-1. Now it runs very quiet and performs well, but the detail on it is not that great, in fact the RTR Athearn GP38-2 has better detailing than it IMO. Also, it had a very noticeable mistake when it comes to detailing: the front number board above the two windscreens was out of alignment with the cab roof line! It was very noticeable when view from front. Also the hand-rails on it was rather "untidy" and when my finger accidentally graced the left, front end railing it broke. And its MSRP is $100.

Ironically, when I purchased the P1K GP15-1 8 months ago, during my research to buy a locomotive, it came down to two locomotives: either the P1K GP15-1 or the Athearn GP38-2. I chose the P1K over the Athearn because after seen a close up picture of the Athearn's "old technology" drive train I was turned off! Other reasons been the P1K was going half price and I always wanted a GP15. Oh hum!


I'm glad to have shared my experience with it on this forum, got some good advice and reassurance!

Here is my take on the Athearn RTR GP38-2: if you can get one for around $60 or less, if you are willing to put up with some mild issues like what happened to me, replace the "cab fryer" headlamp with LEDs and put up with the "coffee grinder" noise it makes.....it's really good.


Oh BTW, Rico and kjd, you wanted to see a picture of that metal piece right? See below! Not the best quality, used a cell phone camera. I'm still wondering what it is?


Thanks guys!


Diesel-Electric

 

[kjd]

The little piece of metal looks like one of the tabs on the bottom of the motor that contact the frame. I assume this loco was not one with the DCC ready light board.

Those little tabs are the first thing to go when installing DCC, you need to remove them to electrically isolate the motor. I wouldn't worry about it.