Double ended vs. stub end yard

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jacon12

Member
How would a double ended yard be better than a stub ended one assuming my trains run in one direction only? If I go with the double end then I have to rethink my present track configuration in other areas and I would probably lose the sidings I presently have for a couple of industries. I could do the double ended and keep things pretty much as they are IF I shorten the yard tracks by about 12 to 18 inches, say from 5 feet down to 3 1/2 to 4 feet in length. Which leads to another question, what should length of yard track be based on, other than the amount of space you have to do it?
Jarrell
 

CBCNSfan

Registered Member
Staff member
Hi Jarrell, if you are happy with it, why change it? If you aren't happy then by all means change it.
IMHO, If you have to take out your sidings then you are certainly going to change the whole concept of operation from "Out and Back" to a "Yard to Yard" operation. This sounds like major surgery to me. Before doing anything think it all out and decide what's best for you at this time (it will change again in the future) and if necessary do a complete tear down and rebuild.
Depending on the number of tracks you have in the yard, shortening may not be the best answer if you end up with some that hold only one or two cars.
A drawing of your track plan would be a big help in answering your question if you could post one. Single line display of the track work would be fine.

Cheers Willis
 

Russian

Saskatoon railfan
For a simialar reason I rebuilt my layout many times before settling on what I have. Basically a "small" yard, 3 parallel tracks, shortest could hold 4 40' cars, longest about 6, middle one 4. The yard is paralleled by a mainline and branchline which join. I posted the track plan before in "Russian's Layout" thread if you're interested.
 

jacon12

Member
Sorry guys, I fergit I'm not over on the 'other' forum where most knew what I'd done so far, so I failed to explain it. This is the plan so far...

each large square is 2 feet, and the benchwork is 1/2 inch plywood covered by 2 inch extruded foam, like this back when I was mulling over putting a mountain in a certain spot (I didn't do it though)

anyway, the question has to do with my one and only yard and if I do the double ended type, like shown in the graphic, the track on the right most side needs to be as shown with only a couple inches between it and the backdrop, not room along there for a siding. If I keep it like I'm experimenting with now that area of track is about a foot away from the backdrop. Mind you NONE of the track is permanently fixed now, nothing glued down, not even roadbed. Even the track on the middle peninsular is now following the contour of the bench, not inclined and crossing itself like in the graphic.
I don't know if this is a help or not but maybe it will be.
Jarrell
 

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
Jarrell,

That looks like an interesting design IMHO. Is there any chance you could also post a graphic of what the track in the lower right area would look like if your yard was NOT double-ended?
 

CBCNSfan

Registered Member
Staff member
How would a double ended yard be better than a stub ended one assuming my trains run in one direction only?
Wow!! and I thought we were discussing something like a 4 by 8.
There are some much better track planners than I am, and hopefully they'll jump in with some ideas pro and con.
Why do you plan to have trains in one direction only?
Other than that,
If you are going to have more than one train in the yard at the same time then at least two tracks should be double ended.
A double ended yard takes up much more room than a stub ended, will hold less rolling stock for the same given area and generally would be used for making up consists from local areas, in/out and passing. If your plans include a yard switcher perhaps a combination of stub ended and double ended might suit your needs better.
The local CB&CNS yard is similar to this, as it's the last yard before interchange with CN. Traffic from the local area is gathered here and added to the mainline trains for the interchange.
In any case I'd leave at least the two lower tracks double ended and lengthen the inside ones and stub end them, just an idea.

Cheers Willis
 

jacon12

Member
CSX_road_slug said:
Jarrell,

That looks like an interesting design IMHO. Is there any chance you could also post a graphic of what the track in the lower right area would look like if your yard was NOT double-ended?
Ken, I wish I could post that photo but unfortunately my cad drawing skills are between nil and zero. A friend drew this one up for me. If I were to make it stub end only the yard tracks would be longer and extend into the 'loop' a bit further. I'm a little concerned that I won't have enough space for a passenger station if the yard gets any wider i.e. more tracks. The original idea was to have engine service facilities and maybe a turntable inside the 'loop' of track also.
Anyway, I would make the yard tracks longer than shown here.
Jarrell
 

jacon12

Member
CBCNSfan said:
Wow!! and I thought we were discussing something like a 4 by 8.
There are some much better track planners than I am, and hopefully they'll jump in with some ideas pro and con.
Why do you plan to have trains in one direction only?
Other than that,
If you are going to have more than one train in the yard at the same time then at least two tracks should be double ended.
A double ended yard takes up much more room than a stub ended, will hold less rolling stock for the same given area and generally would be used for making up consists from local areas, in/out and passing. If your plans include a yard switcher perhaps a combination of stub ended and double ended might suit your needs better.
The local CB&CNS yard is similar to this, as it's the last yard before interchange with CN. Traffic from the local area is gathered here and added to the mainline trains for the interchange.
In any case I'd leave at least the two lower tracks double ended and lengthen the inside ones and stub end them, just an idea.

Cheers Willis
Willis, the trains running in one direction is my idea because of lack of experience in doing layouts and having most all the sidings trailing point instead of facing.
Yes, a yard switcher is a must for me.
I'll try the two track doubled idea. I'm doing this 1 to 1 using Atlas sectional track pieces and I run trains on a configuration for a while to see how I like it.
Thanks for the ideas!
Jarrell
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Jarrell, I agree with Willis that a double ended yard will eat up a lot of valuable space by merging back to the mainline that could be used for longer stubs instead.

I use a stub yard, but have a combo inbound/outbound track that is connected to the yard at one end and to the main at both ends. The inbounds drop the train on this track and then the switcher goes to work placing the individual cars in the yard. For outbound, the switcher will build the consist on a spare stub and then locate it on the same I/O track to wait for the motive power to pick it up.

Also important for switcher work is a lead track to the yard ladder that is seperate from the main. About five cars and a switcher length is very helpful. It doesn't have to be that long to be effective, but the longer...the better all the way to train length. I use the main if I need a longer lead to the yard as many prototypes do.

Where is the drawing? I don't see it. All I see is Jarrell with that all too familiar look:confused: that I have had many times:D

EDIT: Ah, now I see it. Jarrell, if you wanted the ability to turn your trains around, the drawing looks like it would be easy to have a reversing loop at the lower right quadrant. Just cut across from the main at the end of the yard over to the opposite side of the curve heading back towards the yard.
 
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jacon12

Member
RexHea said:
Jarrell, I agree with Willis that a double ended yard will eat up a lot of valuable space by merging back to the mainline that could be used for longer stubs instead.

I use a stub yard, but have a combo inbound/outbound track that is connected to the yard at one end and to the main at both ends. The inbounds drop the train on this track and then the switcher goes to work placing the individual cars in the yard. For outbound, the switcher will build the consist on a spare stub and then locate it on the same I/O track to wait for the motive power to pick it up.

Also important for switcher work is a lead track to the yard ladder that is seperate from the main. About five cars and a switcher length is very helpful. It doesn't have to be that long to be effective, but the longer...the better all the way to train length. I use the main if I need a longer lead to the yard as many prototypes do.

Where is the drawing? I don't see it. All I see is Jarrell with that all too familiar look:confused: that I have had many times:D

EDIT: Ah, now I see it. Jarrell, if you wanted the ability to turn your trains around, the drawing looks like it would be easy to have a reversing loop at the lower right quadrant. Just cut across from the main at the end of the yard over to the opposite side of the curve heading back towards the yard.
Rex, would you happen to have a graphic of your yard? It sounds like a plan!
Jarrell
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Ask and you shall receive. My yard is on a peninsula circled by the mainlines that have an exit to the passenger/town area in the lower right (see wye). This was a second go at the yard after the first just wasn't able to handle a good operation. If I was to do it all over again, I would have a longer yard lead even though this one works for up to 5, 40footers+switcher. It looks like you already have a nice yard lead.

Your yard can come off the main just like you have it drawn. Another way to put more in an area is to use a compound ladder as I have done. (i.e. One turnout has a turnout on each opposite end). This is used instead of the standard ladder and will give you more and longer stubs in the same area.

Make sure you click twice to magnify for good resolution.
 

grande man

Bonafied Grande Nut
HI Jerrell. I like your track plan! You should have plenty of scenic oportunities with it. As for the yard, I'd go stub and save space. You also have the option of using 3 way turnouts to get more track in a given area. With our small space, they were a real plus. The Walthers 3 way is power routing. Keep that in mind if you use them to do a double ended yard. They'll need some rail gaps...
 

jacon12

Member
RexHea said:
Ask and you shall receive. My yard is on a peninsula circled by the mainlines that have an exit to the passenger/town area in the lower right (see wye). This was a second go at the yard after the first just wasn't able to handle a good operation. If I was to do it all over again, I would have a longer yard lead even though this one works for up to 5, 40footers+switcher. It looks like you already have a nice yard lead.

Your yard can come off the main just like you have it drawn. Another way to put more in an area is to use a compound ladder as I have done. (i.e. One turnout has a turnout on each opposite end). This is used instead of the standard ladder and will give you more and longer stubs in the same area.

Make sure you click twice to magnify for good resolution.
Thanks Rex. If I'm seeing correctly you have 4 tracks in your yard plus a track to make up trains on, right?
Jarrell
 

jacon12

Member
emt49 said:
Jarrell

dubble ended yards do take up space .

but they are nice to use you can take cars from ether end with out haveing to move strings of cars . and i can make up a train to run eather way this is my yard

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2830&page=5
there about 4 down the page
I'm finding out that double ended yards and engine service facilties take up a LOT of space.
Thanks for the tips and the movie was great!
Jarrell
 

jacon12

Member
grande man said:
HI Jerrell. I like your track plan! You should have plenty of scenic oportunities with it. As for the yard, I'd go stub and save space. You also have the option of using 3 way turnouts to get more track in a given area. With our small space, they were a real plus. The Walthers 3 way is power routing. Keep that in mind if you use them to do a double ended yard. They'll need some rail gaps...
Grande Man, I've saved up and bought some Peco turnouts, the insulfrog type, for the yard area and I hope they'll do fine. I've had a real time trying to balance the need for industry sidings and wanting good scenery too, but that's what it's all about. I think if it was easy we wouldn't do it.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Jarrell
 

RexHea

RAIL BENDER
Jarrell, looking from the pit going down:
1. Loco run-around track
2. Short caboose track
3. locomotive first in Track (or what ever they call it:confused: )
4. 6 classification tracks
5. Inbound/ Outbound track

The Grid is 1 foot/large square
Note: On the outer ring you can see several crossovers that are needed to allow for two mainlines to access the inbound/outbound track. The lower horizontal track is part of the wye to the town/passenger tracks that can double as a passing track.

:)
 
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NWR #200

Irish Expatriate
IMO, I like the flexibility of a double ended yard. With a double ended yard, you can have a train arrive in one while the switcher can drill the other tracks. However, they do take up alot of space, especially if you go with #6 switches like me (help rid my life of derailments.) However there is a way around that. For me, I'll be having a small four track yard for my shortline. It will have two stub tracks and two double ended. The double ended tracks will be where most of my inbound cars from BNSF will be sorted into the two locals. My stub tracks will serve as storage and overflow.
 

SpaceMouse

Fun Lover
Jarrell,

I must have been living in a tent in Eye Rock or something because two things have happened since I last saw your plan. First it grew two blobs and second you jumped into planning software. Both are improvements.

I would not assume that you are going to only run one direction. I made that assumption and now I have un-made it. As long as you have a couple double-ended A/D tracks you'll be okay.

Also, (you knew it was coming), somewhere in the back of you mind have a plan of how you are going to put in staging when you decide you wish you would have put it in.

IT looks so much better than what I remember. Good work.
 

jacon12

Member
RexHea said:
Jarrell, looking from the pit going down:
1. Loco run-around track
2. Short caboose track
3. locomotive first in Track (or what ever they call it:confused: )
4. 6 classification tracks
5. Inbound/ Outbound track

The Grid is 1 foot/large square
Note: On the outer ring you can see several crossovers that are needed to allow for two mainlines to access the inbound/outbound track. The lower horizontal track is part of the wye to the town/passenger tracks that can double as a passing track.

:)
thanks Rex, this'll be a big help.
Jarrell
 




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