DCC Learning Father

[chadndominic]

We are just getting into the hobby and my son is 6 years old - so I am doing most of the work. On that note, I am fairly mechanical but deathly afraid of breaking one of my sons new/used loco's. We have purchased an IHC Consolidation 2-8-0 and decoder. I have included a pic I found that looks almost the same except his is a Pennsylvania. I think I can follow the directions to install the decoder and find info on the net. However, I can't figure out how to get this thing open in the first place. I feel rather stupid, but instead of breaking it, I figured I would try asking for help first. Any and all help will be appreciated as well as any links I can use. Thank you all in advance.

 

[SpaceMouse]

I've not worked on an IHC 2-8-0 but I did a little searching on the net. The link is a complete wiring detail and instructions. The second is a brief summary of the steps for removing the engine body.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/horivconsolidation.htm

"Remove a screw from underneath holding the weight in the boiler, pop the smokebox front, and slide out the weight. Save the weight and screw for later Remove the cab/boiler (If I recall, lift the front and slide to the rear). There is a "skirt" that makes up the lower portion of the boiler (and clips at the rear of the chassis."

 

[chadndominic]

messed up

Your description of how to get it apart worked great - I had found the wiring diagram on the web in my own research. After all of that, I still screwed it up and smoked the decoder (I watched as it puffed!). I am going to need to find someone around here to show me what I did wrong because I thought I followed the wiring diagram to a tee. If anyone knows anybody in NE OHIO who installs these or could help please let me know. Thanks!

 

[Selector]

It let out the magic smoke because you had not isolated the motor from the power pickups, or from the frame, itself. When an engine is DCC "ready", truly ready, the motor brushes are completely isolated from all electrical power except what they can get from the decoder's outputs.

At least, assuming the decoder didn't have a fault internally, and that your wires are okay and not crossed (no insulation problems, small strands contacting an adjacent post, or solder connecting two posts/terminals), that is about all that can yield the smoke.

-Crandell

 

[lmackattack]

The 4-6-4 IHC engine I wired up was fairly simple as the motor was already isolated.

from the decoder... 2 wires to the motor,2 wires to the engine/tender power pickup, 2 wires to the headlight

if you could take a picture of the wires we may be able to see the issue?

 

[stationmaster]

Aaaahhh, the smell of fried decoder....been there before. Usually, if not a faulty decoder, it's a ground problem. Or so I've been told by the people at Lenz.

bob

 

[chadndominic]

I believe I figured it out - throughout the installation I followed the directions and tested the locomotive at each step. However, at about midnight at the last step, I looked at the wiring diagram and wired up the tender power pickups - failing to remember that underneath, the power was across the entire truck - ergo, the sides were not seperate.

This led to the ground that I failed to realize I had created. Such a beautiful wisp of smoke. Up til then everything worked great and I thank you all for your assistance.

I'm sure you'll hear more from us as my son and I have a lot to learn. He is 6 years old and has informed me that he bought that engine with his allowance and since I broke it, I am required to buy another decoder. For my lack of attention, I have to agree with him.

Again, if anyone knows anybody in Northeastern Ohio (Ashtabula), who knows more about DCC please contact me and we can get together for a beer and some trains.

 

[hamltnblue]

Just curious, What DCC system are you using and what is the radius of your turns?

 

[chadndominic]

For now, since we're just getting started and the main engineer is the 6 year old, I got a Bachmann EZCommand. Mainly ease of use and price were the drivers. We will be upgrading at some point as we start to build a more permanent layout, so any suggestions or tips are greatly appreciated from all. Our minimum radius is 18" at this point, will probably go to 22" or 24" on the permanent layout. Why?

 

[chadndominic]

By the way, looking at buying a Blue Line EMD F7 A/B with sound. Any suggestions on the best decoder to get? Again, price is the driver - Blue Line + good decoder is still cheaper than alot of DCC installed units out there. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would like to hear them.

 

[chadndominic]

I'm having alot of thoughts and ideas all at once, bear with me. Can anyone help with what I need to buy and/or download in order to program our DCC units. I want to get everything and set up. I read about some sort of interface but can't seem to narrow down exactly what I need. Also, there was something about a tester? What about a program track (what do I need and what do I need to do to make all of this happen). There really isn't anyone around me yet (that I've found) to help with these issues, so I truly appreciate everyone's help.

 

[UP2CSX]

Chad, always lots of things to think about. The Bachmann E-Z Command is a fine starter system. You cannot, however, program and of the CV's in your decoders with it. There is no software that interfaces with it to allow you to program decoders from your computer. Ulrich does make a DCC decoder tester and programmer that's inexpensive and nice to have. You can see it at http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-273/Decoder-Testor/Detail?sfs=519e0e54. The Ulrich unit allows you to test and set most options on just about any decoder. The E-Z Command system does not use a programming track for the limited amount of changes you can make to decoder functions. Everything is done on the main. Mosre sophisticated systems made by companies like NCE, Digitrax, and MRC allow you to set up and test decoders on a programming track. This is useful if you are installing your own decoders since the current is limited and you are less likely to smoke a decoder if you've made an error in the installation.

As far as motor decoders for Blueline sound engines, you only need one that controls light functions. I'd use the Digitrax DH123P/s or DZ123PS but NCE and Lenz make similar decoders. All are around $20-$25 and do a good job as motor controllers. There are some issues getting the motor decoder and sound decoder to function in sync with one another. There's a good article about some of these issues at http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/bline_prog_reports.htm.

 

[ThoroughBreed]

If your any good with a soldering iron, try this out:

Use the instructions from the following pages from RMC mag, and you can construct a great little decoder testor that will only cost a fraction of the price of the ones for sale.
I keep mine connected to the program track, so that even when I dont have a decoder attached to the testor, and am writing to one in a loco, I can watch the lights and see when it finishes writing to the decoder.
It can handle 8 pin, using a spare 8 pin plug as a riser, 9 pin jst's, and even hardwired decoders just fine. The cost of all the components should only be about $20.

I hope these help some of you who want to build something for your dcc.
These pages were scanned from RMC September 2001. They shouldn't mind them being reproduced like this.

 

[chadndominic]

That is some great information from both of you. We will be upgrading at some point, but I think we are better off easing into this. I figure at some point, with everyone's help, I'll have just enough information to really screw things up. Until then I'll keep learning and trying things. Eventually, My son and I should end up with a good knowledge base.
This forum is wonderful and I can't thank you enough for the info. so far. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon.

 

[hamltnblue]

If you have a LHS (Local Hobby Shop) that does DCC, or a local club, you can probably have them set the CV's up for you. Most will do it for free. Keep your engines set to under address 9 so you can select them with the bachmann unit. Also note that the Bachmann unit is a 1 amp system. You probably won't be able to run more than 1 loco at a time, especially with sound. It sounds like you're getting the bug and will be upgrading to a better DCC system before long. NCE and Digitrax both have excellent choices.
What are the dimensions of your layout? You said that you have 18 inch radius curves. On a 4x8 or larger you can easily move up to 22 inch and have more options for loco's.

 

[chadndominic]

No sound on other loco's and able to run 2-3 with a DC as well. True, the bug is there for me and my son would run 100 engines if he could (he loves the idea of consists). I have been looking at the MRC Prodigy Advanced 2 and the Digitrax Super Chief. Leaning toward the MRC, what does everyone think?

As far as size we have about a 6 X 8 area - this will probably change once he and I decide on what sort of permanent layout we want to build and how to incorporate it into a 20 X 30 game room with couches, pinball, video, Plasma, darts, slot machines, 22' hand built bowling alley topped bar. The room is full but things can move and be adjusted or gotten rid of.

Right now we are spending quite a bit on rolling stock and some of his favorite engines. I'm trying to lean toward buying all DCC or DCC ready units from now on ($). Plus, as you all know, track, systems, turnouts, etc. As well as a wife and two other younger children. It will take us time but we'll get there eventually. His grandfather (old switchman for New York Central and Conrail and worked on the Conrail, now CSX, coal dock locally) and myself are obviously very supportive and trying to help him in the right direction from the get-go, and he is enthralled by trains (he saves all of his allowance for trains). All of this is why I'm trying to learn as much as possible, so I can pass along and teach a 61/2 yr old (and the 66 yr old), the latter is much harder to teach.

I thank you all yet again. Any and all info. is welcomed!

 

[UP2CSX]

I was able to run a sound equipped GP-9, an SD-24, and a 70 tonner at the same time when I was using E-Z Command. Even though it's rated at one amp, it seems to be conservatively rated. By my measuements, the total draw was just over 1.1 amps and the E-Z Command never faltered, overheated, or shut down. As far as what DCC system is best, this is almost like a religious debate. Do a search here and you'll find many threads with the pros and cons of different systems. I'd really suggest you stick with the E-Z Command at this point until you have some experience under your belt and have the need for a more sophisticated system.

 

[DougM]

I have been looking at the MRC Prodigy Advanced 2 and the Digitrax Super Chief. Leaning toward the MRC, what does everyone think?

You might also want to look at NCE the PowerCab system is pretty inexpensive. Once nice thing is that the NCE systems are software download upgradeable, I'm pretty sure Digitrax is not.

I have heard NCE systems described as more user friendly and if you start with a basic Powercab system it can be expanded to handle as much as the other systems.

Take a look at this chart for some additional information:
http://www.tonystrains.com/productcompare/dcccomparison.htm

If you think you might want to run trains with a local club you might want to see what they have as well.

 

[hamltnblue]

I have been looking at the MRC Prodigy Advanced 2 and the Digitrax Super Chief. Leaning toward the MRC, what does everyone think?

Right now we are spending quite a bit on rolling stock and some of his favorite engines. I'm trying to lean toward buying all DCC or DCC ready units from now on ($).

If you have the opportunity, try out the systems you are considering before buying. I've seen some good writeups about MRC but most suggest NCE or Digitrax.

If you're in the process of buying engines I'd suggest that you buy less of them and concentrate on quality. The extra money will be well spent and will last much longer than the starter ones.