This year I want to make a small 4ft by 4ft christmas tree layout to put under the tree. I will just use a 4x4 plywood base from an old layout for the benchwork. My question is I want this to be a permanent scene and want to be able to store it for 11 months when it is not in use. What kind of things will I have to do to accomplish this? A folding technique doesnt seem like it would work since all the scenery would end up on the outside. I was thinking of maybe using my other 4x4 base and making a box out of the two pieces. I am afraid this will be rather heavy and cumbersome to move and store. Do any of you have any tips on storage and layout design for a christmas tree layout?
christmas tree layout storage
- Thread starter doug1976
- Start date
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Sounds like you would have a backdrop at least as high as the highest scenery on one side of the layout, and a cut down the middle of it all, then you flip one side of the scenery to the other and flip that one so that it sits on the other making it a 2x4 box when ready to store? what did you do for the 2 exposed sides in that scenario?
If I understand you right, in my scenario of a 4x4 base, i would make 2 cuts for a middle section as wide as my highest part of the layout, attach a piece of plywood to the top when the layout is folded, and pieces in the sides to finish the box. What if I created some hinges on the sides that start under the layout that swings nearly 360 degrees that would create the top piece? Whould such a thing be possible instead of a loose piece for the top?.
Overall, what you describe is kind of what I was wishing to accomplish, I guess I just didn't see how to get it done it properly. I might have to replace the side pieces which are 2x4 to something smaller for weight purposes, but it sounds pretty good. Let me know if I got it down.
Yea I am not looking for too elaborate scenery, will have a tunnel probably in the back corner, a pond as you describe, and some houses or buildings which may or may not be permanently down, probably not. Mostly I dont want to damage the tunnel and any trees and bushes that are permanently down. Thanks for the quick reply!
Yes, you have the idea right.
The hinged flap idea for closing in the top of the "U" portion is really good. Not sure you can get hinges that rotate almost 360 degrees, but IIRC there is a hinge that, oddly enough, is "U" shaped which would allow it to swing into position to close the top. Side pieces can be as simple as cardboard, foamcore board or even lightweight luaun plywood. Depends on how much protection the sides will need in storage.
One thought to keep in mind. When you fold up the wings into the U shape, you will have to keep sufficient space clear at the hinged area to avoid hitting the scenery. One simple trick is to have no elevated scenery on the center section, such as a river valley or farm field. That way, scenery on the wings just folds over the center section with no interference.
Yes, I would definitely use smaller lumber! 3/8" plywood with 1"x2" frames should be strong enough. Screw them together using glue and it should hold up well.
Thinking a little further along, if you make each section (center section and both wings) as independent box frames of 1x2's with 3/8" plywood top, the hinges could attach on the frame instead of the plywood. Much stronger there and can be disguised better by recessing the hinges into the frames.
This sounds like a really interesting project. I have some On30 equipment that I bought to use under the Christmas tree. I was originally planning on using 2" foam for the base. The tree would sit either on top of the foam or in a hole cut out of the middle of the foam. Now you have me thinking that a folding box arrangement would be better since I, too, will be storing the layout for most of the year. I hadn't planned on any real scenery; I just wanted a train at the base of the tree to compliment the N scale train that's IN the tree. I chose On30 because I can use 15" curves to keep the layout small enough to fit under the tree. A folding U layout like you're contemplating would allow me to add some scenery. I'm liking this idea better and better!
If you get started on this, make sure you post pictures of your progress. If I get started on one for myself, I'll be sure to post my progress pictures, too.
Darrell, quiet...for now
sorry to post an ascii map of this, but i want to be sure about it before i tear apart stuff
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This is the left wing, and the middle piece with seperate frames. I would place the hinges on the actual 1x2 framing pieces and recess them into the frame so they attach flush to each other then there is a plywood piece on top to attach scenery to? I assume without seperate frames for the wings I would put the hinges in the same place, however it would be on the plywood.
Thanks again for the help, this is more ambitious benchwork than I have ever done, and I like to practice measure twice cut once
Actually as I look at the photo you might have achieved another effect. Lots of folks light up the exterior of their homes with flood lights. That's the first thought came to my mind as I looked at the photos. It's been a long hard day maybe I'm just tired.
Cheers
Willis
Yea that actually a good thought. Maybe I will leave the church the way it is, and maybe a house or 2. At least a Christmas layout it makes more sense for people to have their houses lit up, so in this context it is ok
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I would think that a lot depends on where you will store the layout between holidays.
Making a box would provide the best protection but it would be heavy and cumbersome to move. You could store the box almost anywhere that it would fit and not have to worry about damage. Thinner plywood for the top and sides might reduce the weight but you'd lose the protection of the heavier plywood.
Folding is a good option, but you would have to design the base to fold inward. For that, you'd need a short "fixed" section across the middle of the layout with "wings" that fold up, making a "U" shape when folded. How high your scenery and structures are would determine the size of the "fixed" section. A piece of plywood screwed to the top of the "U" when folded would hold the wings in place and cardboard stapled to the sides would keep out dust and dirt. The whole setup wouldn't weigh much more than the layout itself.
Additionally, the folded U layout would occupy less space when stored. A 48"x48" layout with a box top is going to be 48"x48"x(?") depending on how deep you make it. The "U" layout would fold into a roughly 48"x18"x12" package. Standing on end, it would fit in a closet. You might even be able to wrestle it onto a closet shelf!
Hope these comments help. I'd do the folding U layout if I were to build it. More engineering, but a smaller, lighter package to store.
Darrell, quiet...for now
Making a box would provide the best protection but it would be heavy and cumbersome to move. You could store the box almost anywhere that it would fit and not have to worry about damage. Thinner plywood for the top and sides might reduce the weight but you'd lose the protection of the heavier plywood.
Folding is a good option, but you would have to design the base to fold inward. For that, you'd need a short "fixed" section across the middle of the layout with "wings" that fold up, making a "U" shape when folded. How high your scenery and structures are would determine the size of the "fixed" section. A piece of plywood screwed to the top of the "U" when folded would hold the wings in place and cardboard stapled to the sides would keep out dust and dirt. The whole setup wouldn't weigh much more than the layout itself.
Additionally, the folded U layout would occupy less space when stored. A 48"x48" layout with a box top is going to be 48"x48"x(?") depending on how deep you make it. The "U" layout would fold into a roughly 48"x18"x12" package. Standing on end, it would fit in a closet. You might even be able to wrestle it onto a closet shelf!
Hope these comments help. I'd do the folding U layout if I were to build it. More engineering, but a smaller, lighter package to store.
Darrell, quiet...for now
Rico
BN Modeller
I made one years ago that was actually two 2x4 sections with a backdrop on one end of each.
When it was time to put it away I simply disconnected the joints, turned one peice around so the backdrop was at the opposite end, turned on their sides and screwed the backdrops back into the bases.
Kind of like two L shapes fit to make a box, if that makes any sense?
When it was time to put it away I simply disconnected the joints, turned one peice around so the backdrop was at the opposite end, turned on their sides and screwed the backdrops back into the bases.
Kind of like two L shapes fit to make a box, if that makes any sense?
Sounds like you would have a backdrop at least as high as the highest scenery on one side of the layout, and a cut down the middle of it all, then you flip one side of the scenery to the other and flip that one so that it sits on the other making it a 2x4 box when ready to store? what did you do for the 2 exposed sides in that scenario?
Rico
BN Modeller
That's pretty much how it worked, wasn't much for scenery other than a small hill and frozen pond with tress around it. The buildings were removable. I didn't do anything for the sides but you could staple cardboard to it or something like that.
It lasted for a few years before I moved.
It lasted for a few years before I moved.
If I understand you right, in my scenario of a 4x4 base, i would make 2 cuts for a middle section as wide as my highest part of the layout, attach a piece of plywood to the top when the layout is folded, and pieces in the sides to finish the box. What if I created some hinges on the sides that start under the layout that swings nearly 360 degrees that would create the top piece? Whould such a thing be possible instead of a loose piece for the top?.
Overall, what you describe is kind of what I was wishing to accomplish, I guess I just didn't see how to get it done it properly. I might have to replace the side pieces which are 2x4 to something smaller for weight purposes, but it sounds pretty good. Let me know if I got it down.
Yea I am not looking for too elaborate scenery, will have a tunnel probably in the back corner, a pond as you describe, and some houses or buildings which may or may not be permanently down, probably not. Mostly I dont want to damage the tunnel and any trees and bushes that are permanently down. Thanks for the quick reply!
Yes, you have the idea right.
The hinged flap idea for closing in the top of the "U" portion is really good. Not sure you can get hinges that rotate almost 360 degrees, but IIRC there is a hinge that, oddly enough, is "U" shaped which would allow it to swing into position to close the top. Side pieces can be as simple as cardboard, foamcore board or even lightweight luaun plywood. Depends on how much protection the sides will need in storage.
One thought to keep in mind. When you fold up the wings into the U shape, you will have to keep sufficient space clear at the hinged area to avoid hitting the scenery. One simple trick is to have no elevated scenery on the center section, such as a river valley or farm field. That way, scenery on the wings just folds over the center section with no interference.
Yes, I would definitely use smaller lumber! 3/8" plywood with 1"x2" frames should be strong enough. Screw them together using glue and it should hold up well.
Thinking a little further along, if you make each section (center section and both wings) as independent box frames of 1x2's with 3/8" plywood top, the hinges could attach on the frame instead of the plywood. Much stronger there and can be disguised better by recessing the hinges into the frames.
This sounds like a really interesting project. I have some On30 equipment that I bought to use under the Christmas tree. I was originally planning on using 2" foam for the base. The tree would sit either on top of the foam or in a hole cut out of the middle of the foam. Now you have me thinking that a folding box arrangement would be better since I, too, will be storing the layout for most of the year. I hadn't planned on any real scenery; I just wanted a train at the base of the tree to compliment the N scale train that's IN the tree. I chose On30 because I can use 15" curves to keep the layout small enough to fit under the tree. A folding U layout like you're contemplating would allow me to add some scenery. I'm liking this idea better and better!
If you get started on this, make sure you post pictures of your progress. If I get started on one for myself, I'll be sure to post my progress pictures, too.
Darrell, quiet...for now
sorry to post an ascii map of this, but i want to be sure about it before i tear apart stuff
======= =======
|..........|..|..........|
|..........|H|..........|
|..........|..|..........|
|..........|..|..........|
|..........|..|..........|
|..........|H|..........|
|..........|..|..........|
======= =======
This is the left wing, and the middle piece with seperate frames. I would place the hinges on the actual 1x2 framing pieces and recess them into the frame so they attach flush to each other then there is a plywood piece on top to attach scenery to? I assume without seperate frames for the wings I would put the hinges in the same place, however it would be on the plywood.
Thanks again for the help, this is more ambitious benchwork than I have ever done, and I like to practice measure twice cut once
Not sure I understood your drawing, so I went to Paint and did a quick drawing to illustrate my construction comments:
The drawing shows two views: three sections laid out flat and another view showing the relationship of the three sections folded into a U shape.
Each section is built as a separate frame of 1x2" lumber with a 3/8" plywood top. Then the sections are joined together with hinges where indicated.
I didn't get fancy with the drawing. For instance, I didn't add the closing piece of plywood that finishes the "box" when folded up. It easily could be hinged off of one wing and swing into place for storage. I didn't try to draw any hinges, either, just showed the proposed location. I also didn't draw it to scale; it's just an illustration of the idea showing the general construction of the sections.
I think 1x2" lumber and 3/8" plywood would be adequate for the purpose. The 1x2" pieces would need to be pre-drilled for screwing together to prevent splitting the wood and glue used in the joints. After the plywood is screwed and glued to the frame, the unit should be very strong. There is no reason why bigger lumber and thicker plywood can't be used. The layout would just weigh more.
I'm getting excited about this concept! If I wasn't so busy on another project, I'd start working on something myself. I like this idea so much because, for my purposes, a unit like this, when folded, provides a perfect storage place for the trains that belong with the layout (On30). Everything would be stored in one place!
Hope my drawing helps. Feel free to change and adapt as your needs dictate. Maybe some other forum members can offer suggestions, too.
Darrell, quiet...for now
The drawing shows two views: three sections laid out flat and another view showing the relationship of the three sections folded into a U shape.
Each section is built as a separate frame of 1x2" lumber with a 3/8" plywood top. Then the sections are joined together with hinges where indicated.
I didn't get fancy with the drawing. For instance, I didn't add the closing piece of plywood that finishes the "box" when folded up. It easily could be hinged off of one wing and swing into place for storage. I didn't try to draw any hinges, either, just showed the proposed location. I also didn't draw it to scale; it's just an illustration of the idea showing the general construction of the sections.
I think 1x2" lumber and 3/8" plywood would be adequate for the purpose. The 1x2" pieces would need to be pre-drilled for screwing together to prevent splitting the wood and glue used in the joints. After the plywood is screwed and glued to the frame, the unit should be very strong. There is no reason why bigger lumber and thicker plywood can't be used. The layout would just weigh more.
I'm getting excited about this concept! If I wasn't so busy on another project, I'd start working on something myself. I like this idea so much because, for my purposes, a unit like this, when folded, provides a perfect storage place for the trains that belong with the layout (On30). Everything would be stored in one place!
Hope my drawing helps. Feel free to change and adapt as your needs dictate. Maybe some other forum members can offer suggestions, too.
Darrell, quiet...for now
Yes that is what my silly ASCII drawing was showing. I understand what I must do now. I will see how heavy my 4x4 section is now and see if that is going to be too much to use for this project, or if I have to pick up some spare 1x2s to frame it up lighter. Thanks again for all your help, hopefully I can get started on this project in the next week or 2 and I will post images as I go.
Got it done!
Ok I did a X-mas layout this year, however, I did not have enough time to do the above steps, there is an advantage to my temporary layout though. I am able to see what works best with the tree right above it. What I did was put down a 4x4 section of plywood with a 2x4 frame. I cut out a 2 inch circle in the middle for the tree to stick out. I put down cotton batting which my mom had leftover for her quilting. I drilled holes for the 5 lighted buildings and 1 hole for the track wire, then drilled through the side for the wires to connect to the box. For the trees I put down small pieces of styrofoam and stuck the trees to it as they would not stay put with just the cotton. This also serves to get some small hills which would not have extisted if I did not have to do it this way. Under the layout I soldered the buildings wires to a small 6 inch section of wire, then attached all of those to a main wire which is connected to the box. I used those wire screw plastic things (sorry I have no idea what they are called) to keep the wires from shorting and to attach the different wire sections. Hope you enjoy the pics, this is my first go at a under-the-tree layout, was a lot of fun and only took about 6 hours, and I am bad with solder guns, and other tools in general.
Ok I did a X-mas layout this year, however, I did not have enough time to do the above steps, there is an advantage to my temporary layout though. I am able to see what works best with the tree right above it. What I did was put down a 4x4 section of plywood with a 2x4 frame. I cut out a 2 inch circle in the middle for the tree to stick out. I put down cotton batting which my mom had leftover for her quilting. I drilled holes for the 5 lighted buildings and 1 hole for the track wire, then drilled through the side for the wires to connect to the box. For the trees I put down small pieces of styrofoam and stuck the trees to it as they would not stay put with just the cotton. This also serves to get some small hills which would not have extisted if I did not have to do it this way. Under the layout I soldered the buildings wires to a small 6 inch section of wire, then attached all of those to a main wire which is connected to the box. I used those wire screw plastic things (sorry I have no idea what they are called) to keep the wires from shorting and to attach the different wire sections. Hope you enjoy the pics, this is my first go at a under-the-tree layout, was a lot of fun and only took about 6 hours, and I am bad with solder guns, and other tools in general.
Next year I plan on doing the above posts with the winged table that will fold up into an 18 inch by 4 foot case that can be easily stored. The layout will have plaster, maybe a tunnel, hopefully a lake, and everything will be permanent. Doing it the way I did this year also gives me an idea how high I can take scenery without the x-mas tree getting in the way. (also gives me an idea how much damage my 19 month old son will do ) Please any tips on anything is always accepted. Hope you all enjoy.
) Please any tips on anything is always accepted. Hope you all enjoy.Wow, Doug! Nice work!
I haven't had time to work on a Christmas layout so far. If I find some time before Christmas, I'll probably just use 2" foam to get started this year. I wasn't planning on doing any scenery, just the train running in a circle.
I like how your layout turned out. Great night shots, too!
Just be careful! These things have a way of growing beyond the Christmas tree layout stage! LOL
Darrell, quiet...for now
I haven't had time to work on a Christmas layout so far. If I find some time before Christmas, I'll probably just use 2" foam to get started this year. I wasn't planning on doing any scenery, just the train running in a circle.
I like how your layout turned out. Great night shots, too!
Just be careful! These things have a way of growing beyond the Christmas tree layout stage! LOL
Darrell, quiet...for now
I noticed that I had forgotten to paint the inside of those buildings in brown or black so that the light doesnt shine through the entire exterior, I will have to take care of that before next year. These buildings were never part of a layout before so that part was never done.
Actually as I look at the photo you might have achieved another effect. Lots of folks light up the exterior of their homes with flood lights. That's the first thought came to my mind as I looked at the photos. It's been a long hard day maybe I'm just tired.
Cheers
Willis
Yea that actually a good thought. Maybe I will leave the church the way it is, and maybe a house or 2. At least a Christmas layout it makes more sense for people to have their houses lit up, so in this context it is ok
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