Broadway Limited Locos (and I'm now poor)


MikeOwnby

Active Member
I was already planning on snatching up an N-scale Baldwin Centipede (or two) when they *finally* came out. I'm glad I waited and didn't break down and get an HO model just to HAVE one. I love those baby-faced monster locos. Anyway...happened to run across an A-A set of UP on eBay for just $220. No sound, but I prefer that anyway after hearing how anemic the sound was on my N-scale Zephyr. It really annoys me to be paying extra for sound I don't want, and Broadway Limited has a habit of thinking everybody wants to do just that. Anyway...I got that instead of paying $190 for just one A unit with sound, and I'm VERY happy to have found this odd soundless duck and gotten two locos for nearly the price of one.

THEN I look at my email and TrainWorld has the Broadway Limited E7 in "as delivered" NYC livery. On sale. It's the REVERSE lightning stripe, and with my love of oddities and oddballs I just HAD to have it. $170 for an A-B set, and yes it has sound but for that price I don't feel quite so ripped off :D

Anyway, I'll post some pics (maybe even some video) once I get these guys in. Providing I can still afford to pay my internet bill, that is. Heh. Wasn't really planning on spending that extra money on the E7, but trains'll do that to ya. And hey, I did NOT order them from Klein, so I'll likely get them in a timely fashion. Yay!

(I did FINALLY get the Kato E5 Silver Streak set I ordered from Klein. Very pretty and runs GREAT, but I was beginning to wonder if the Kato warranty would be expired by the time I received it. THREE WEEEKS, folks. THREE. Sheesh.)
 
Did you have a room reservation at the poor house ?? laugh.gif

Sounds like you did get some good deals without a doubt. One just has to be on their toes. I do know what you mean about no sound. I am still in the stone ages running DC only, but do have a few DCC locomotives with sound and would really prefer no sound also. Without having a DCC controller I can't turn off the sound, but I guess I could always pull a lead off of the speaker.

Klein has been a bit off their feed lately. Last month put an order in and it took over two weeks to get here. Put one in last week and it took only 6 days from when the order was put in. Figgure that out.
 
Broadway Limited has a habit of thinking everybody wants to do just that.
I have to defend BLI here. That isn't a habit, that was the reason the company was founded. It is the corporate direction and philosophy, "never operate in silence again". Without the sound there would be no BLI company. When they tried to detour from that business model with the stealth series everyone made fun of them and the product line was a miserable failure that just confused people. If one doesn't want sound they don't want BLI.
 
Guess I have just been running silent for too many years. I picked up this BLI heavy mike from Terry for more than a reasonable price.

IMAG0528.jpg

I was interested in the detail. On my railroad, a mike would be the largest steam locomotive that we run. I have a couple of light mikes, but really like the chunky looks of this heavy mike. Short of buying a brass locomotive, BLI's detail is excellent. This one just has to be repainted and lettered for my railroad. The performance is also excellent.

[video=youtube;VOmh90pg4aE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmh90pg4aE[/video]

When this video was taken, I was just getting used to the throttle response on DC and was a bit heavy "thumbed" with the throttle while taking the video. Of course, I have no control of the sound running it on DC, but after running it for a while, it sort of got a bit annoying. Possible because the volume was too high. I can always disconnect the speaker I guess, but when the grand kids come over, they do like this one to run.

I have said many times that I have EENUFF locomotives, just like I said before I got this one, but if BLI comes up with another locomotive that I can use, painted for the right railroad that I'm collecting, I guess I'll need one more to have EENUFF.
 
You do realize, that N scale sound not as good as HO sound models right? HUGE difference, because of the size of the speakers. So don't judge all sound locomotives by only having heard the sound of one N scale loco.
 
I have to defend BLI here. That isn't a habit, that was the reason the company was founded. It is the corporate direction and philosophy, "never operate in silence again". Without the sound there would be no BLI company. When they tried to detour from that business model with the stealth series everyone made fun of them and the product line was a miserable failure that just confused people. If one doesn't want sound they don't want BLI.

I guess that's understandable. Sorta. They do still release a few of the models without sound, though, is the thing. The problem is they release just a few examples of one or two paint schemes that way. I can even understand it in HO, possibly, but honestly I've not heard anything in N-scale so far that makes sound worth the money. Or even the hassle of programming the extra sound CV's, for that matter. I've been told that the Athearn Big Boy and Challenger, with that huge tender to put a big speaker in, actually sound pretty good and they likely do. I'd bet that a person could get halfway decent sound out of a cab unit, too. However, most of my roster is made up of hood units, and best case there is maybe a speaker stuck in the fuel tank or something? In any case, making room for a speaker in an N-scale hood unit makes it lose a pretty significant percentage of its weight and pulling power if nothing else. If somebody ever comes up with a dime-sized speaker that sounds at least like a really good thumb-sized one I'll re-think things. Not holding my breath on that one, though.

I'm not sure that deviating from their philosophy at least in N-scale would have the same effect as offering an overall soundless line, but obviously even without the sound decoder there would still be that space cut out of the chassis. Thing is, if BLI is actually a really nice model (and I'll find that out shortly), I'm not opposed to paying the occasional sound price to get that nice loco when it's something that nobody else offers. The downside, of course, is that I'm not going to pay their prices on most of their stuff because it's just not that unique. If I hadn't found that E7 combo at basically clearance prices I never would have bought it at all. Yes, I like the paint job and want it because it's unique, but not enough to pay $100 or more over Kato's prices. Y'know?

And BTW, I really wasn't trying to run BLI down so much as just wishing they did offer more sound-free units. For someone like me whose entire loco roster is basically sound-free, it's just nonsensical to pay extra for sound that I'll listen to once or twice out of curiosity and then turn off. Of course, as I say, when they actually offer a unit that's desirable enough to overcome that price gap (or I find something on clearance), they'll occasionally get my cash :)
 
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You do realize, that N scale sound not as good as HO sound models right? HUGE difference, because of the size of the speakers. So don't judge all sound locomotives by only having heard the sound of one N scale loco.

Yes, but since I'm talking about and modeling in N-scale, what HO sounds like is really a pretty darn moot point.
 
I have heard a few N scale sound and I will have to agree that is is not impressive. The small speakers are probably the biggest problem without a doubt.

We have been visiting some very good model railroading friends in Missouri for years. Two of them have huge home layouts and they also belong to a club with a layout that has many scale miles of track. I have attended numerous operating sessions at their club which is DCC, with operating signals and usually has two dispatchers controlling the action. We have had over 20 trains operating at the same time on the layout, and it didn't take very long for all of the sound locomotives to just about drive me crazy. Again, I think the sound volume was probably way too high.

For me again, I can really do without it. I have done without it for so long and have gotten used to my train room being my nice quiet place to chill out. I will run them when the grand kids come over or visitors want to see the trains run, but for me they're more of a novelty than a necessity.
 
I have to defend BLI here. That isn't a habit, that was the reason the company was founded. It is the corporate direction and philosophy, "never operate in silence again". Without the sound there would be no BLI company. When they tried to detour from that business model with the stealth series everyone made fun of them and the product line was a miserable failure that just confused people. If one doesn't want sound they don't want BLI.

Nicely stated. Yes, they advertised when they launched that they were the first to offer DCC/sound decoders in HO scale, and that has been their bread and butter ever since. They had some not very successful forays into DC with, first, their Stealth model line, and then with the BlueLine variety that came with a sound decoder that operated on DC, but the drive was DC. They must have been hurting from all the incursions the friendly litigious folks at Mike's Train House made on their market, including suing, and ultimately losing to, BLI over the chuff and smoke synchronization. They ought to have stuck to marketing their DCC/Sound engines.
 
I just got the e-mail from TrainWorld with those units in it. That looks like a really good price. I wish they had road names I was interested in or had them in HO.

I've kinda figured out that I'm as much a collector as a runner. I like to get (or make) pretty or interesting locos. Period. That's one reason I'm SO glad that I decided to include a "railroad museum" with an excursion line on my layout. I can quite legitimately run anything I want to on that line, or have anything I want parked on display, and it's all perfectly legit. I already have several NYC "lightning stripe" units (including the big C-Liner project I embarked on), but that one with the light & dark reversed is just too cool. If nothing else, there's not a decal set out there for that barely-used reverse scheme that was quickly covered up, meaning I'd have to design and print my own lightning stripes to create one myself. Worth a few bucks to avoid that much work.

Honestly, I'd almost given up on BLI ever actually getting the N Centipede to market. It's been delayed for a VERY long time. I'd seriously considered buying an HO model just to display and gawk at, at least until I finally decide to get my little HO loop put around the wall of my office. BUT, having one in N-scale that I can actually run and get real use out of is so much better. Looking forward to petting both of these new guys and then watching them play ;)
 
I feel the need to weigh in here. I own three BLI locomotives and enjoy them all.

When they announced a Commodore Vanderbilt, I salivated until I saw the $500.00 price tag. I scoured the internet for months before I found a relatively "decent" pre-order price. I contacted them a few weeks before the pre-order date because I was interested, but they had (and still haven't) posted anything more than the artwork of the locomotive. If I am asked to spend that kind of money, I want to be sold on significantly more than artwork.
In the response I received, I was told that the pre-order date was tied to when they would expect a prototype. I was also told that things weren't looking good in that there haven't been enough pre-orders and therefore interest in the project. I voiced my concerns on the pricing, the artwork (photos please) and suggested that perhaps they needed to cut back on some features in order to generate more interest. I received no answer to that e-mail.
Eventually, I e-mailed them again to see if there was any update. Nothing regarding the Vanderbilt has changed on their website and I was trying to figure out if the project was cancelled or still on. I was told that the project was on hold indefinately, but not cancelled, pending more orders.
Granted, I'm not in their shoes. I'm not running their business. But don't you think they'd explore some options? Or at least do some marketing for it?
 
I feel the need to weigh in here. I own three BLI locomotives and enjoy them all.

When they announced a Commodore Vanderbilt, I salivated until I saw the $500.00 price tag. I scoured the internet for months before I found a relatively "decent" pre-order price. I contacted them a few weeks before the pre-order date because I was interested, but they had (and still haven't) posted anything more than the artwork of the locomotive. If I am asked to spend that kind of money, I want to be sold on significantly more than artwork.
In the response I received, I was told that the pre-order date was tied to when they would expect a prototype. I was also told that things weren't looking good in that there haven't been enough pre-orders and therefore interest in the project. I voiced my concerns on the pricing, the artwork (photos please) and suggested that perhaps they needed to cut back on some features in order to generate more interest. I received no answer to that e-mail.
Eventually, I e-mailed them again to see if there was any update. Nothing regarding the Vanderbilt has changed on their website and I was trying to figure out if the project was cancelled or still on. I was told that the project was on hold indefinately, but not cancelled, pending more orders.
Granted, I'm not in their shoes. I'm not running their business. But don't you think they'd explore some options? Or at least do some marketing for it?

BLI does seem to need someone who understands marketing. Or even just realizes that marketing and details are important. Their website still has a release date for the N-scale Centipede that has long since come and gone, with absolutely no information on it even being delayed, much less why or when it might make an appearance. I had just checked their website last week and thought "well, maybe it will finally come out one of these years" and then bam! there it is for sale suddenly. And yet, again, their website still has absolutely nothing about any of that at all. I mean, someone who's regularly checking the manufacturer's website shouldn't be shocked and surprised that something has finally hit the market. You'd think they'd be celebrating that it's finally here.

Oh, and this is the REALLY cool thing. Apparently my N-scale Centipede can run on HO-scale code 100 or code 83 track! Isn't that amazing? And that information has been stuck on their website for YEARS without ever being corrected. So yeah, they need somebody who will pay a little more attention to accurately marketing their products and acting like they WANT you to buy their stuff. Unfortunately, whether intentionally or not, some of the model railroad companies do come across with the attitude that you're just going to have to put up with it because where ya gonna go? It's not like you can get the same thing elsewhere, so either buy it or don't. We don't care. If that's not ACTUALLY their attitude, then it's unfortunate that being so lax in certain areas is nonetheless giving that impression.

Edit: Just looked at their site again, and they did finally sorta update it sometime today. Though it's still got video of the pre-production bits and pieces, and still says it's being released in the spring of 2015. Like I say, they just seem to need somebody dedicated to actually communicating with their customers and keeping their site updated and in good shape. You have to admit it's a bit silly to have gone to the trouble of adding all the production models to the page and then not even bothering to change a few words about its release date. Very sloppy.
 
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I've kinda figured out that I'm as much a collector as a runner.
I'm with you there. I am certain I have equipment that will never turn a wheel on an actual layout. I figured that even if I had the time to prepare a different train to run on the museum layout each week it would take years to get through the roster.

I'm currently lusting after the BLI Texas and Pacific 2-10-4 coming soon. Hopefully I can resist the temptation to purchase one.
 
5 BLI products 'sully' my layout, 2 Steamers, the Shark, the Trackmobile and the track inspection vehicle "1929" version, all have been ok save one of the Steamers, it ran in rev when the controller said forward and vice-versa, other than that it was perfect, then it died and I'm not sure why and too busy right now to find out. A decoder has been purported to be the bugaboo in an informal off site diagnosis.

Go ahead and git that Texas Steamer! You bet!

I would love a "Big Russian Steam Loco" but those tender connectors are holding me back from pulling the trigger on one.
 
Which one is this?

I don't know exactly which model but it looks like something out of Dr Zhivago! Impressive as can be!

The BLI steamers and the Bachman I have, have those wire connectors to the tender and it's a deal breaker for me, I've had nothing but trouble with the wire connection, the sound is very nice but a silent loco that actually ran the rails would be better.
 
Well, the Baldwin Centipedes are up and running, and here's the crazy part: They're fully equipped with sound and the whole shebang. This two-loco set should have sold for at least $350 and I got it for $220. Somebody completely screwed up on that eBay listing. If Klein is selling them for $350, no way somebody else could actually do $220. Talk about lucking into something wacky. Wow.

Anyway...after a few hair-pulling moments and some googling, I figured out that those Paragon sound decoders don't like to be programmed on the programming track. Thought I had at least one severely fried decoder at first. For some reason, one of the units went ahead and changed its 4-digit address after a few tries, but I just kept getting nothing but errors on the other. Finally tracked down what the issue was, and once I programmed it on the main everything was fine.

The sound on these is a lot better than that Burlington Zephyr, but I still got tired of it fairly quickly. While it does sound a lot better, to me it just becomes loud and obnoxious after a while. To each their own. I'm sure I'll turn it on once in a while, but for the most part it'll stay off. I can say that these BLI Centipedes do run super quiet with very very little mechanism noise. I'm having an issue with them jerking to a start and jerking to a stop, though, and there doesn't seem to be any fix. CV2 is already set at 1, and it will actually creep VERY slowly at a throttle setting of 1, but for some reason if you crank up the throttle it just jerks to a start at what would be a throttle setting of 10 or so. Same thing when it stops. If you just set the throttle to zero it slows down to about 8 or 10 and then just jerks to a stop, yet if you slowly wind the throttle down one notch at a time it will again crawl down to nothing and a smooth stop. While I'm impressed with the sound quality for N scale, I can't say that I'm too impressed with how the decoder actually operates the locomotive so far. Besides the jerky starts and stops, the motor appears to be speed limited but not in a way that's fully usable by the decoder. Setting CV5 to anything from about 150 on up is all the same max speed. No difference between 150 and 250, the loco just moves along at its top speed. It also needed wildly different acceleration and deceleration values for CV's 3 and 4, which is just...go figure.

The detail on the bodies is good. Not anything super special, but in the upper ranges of nice. It does have some separate grab irons and the both the paint job and the molded details looks to be very sharp and clear. I'm not crazy about the pilot face being attached to the front truck, because boy does it look horrible going around curves. However, I'm not sure how they could have done it any different and still have usable couplers.

One thing I really like is that they included both a prototypical drawbar to permanently connect the two locos AND regular 1015 couplers that could be optionally mounted. While I would love to be able to use the drawbar and have it be that tiny bit more realistic, these locos are LONG, and they have those leading and trailing trucks flopping all around. I really can't imagine trying to handle both of them while hooked together like that. I decided to go ahead and install the couplers and store the drawbar. Probably would have eventually broken it trying to handle both those locos at once anyway.

I still need to get the E7 pair unboxed and play around with it, so I didn't stop to take pics or video. If anybody's interested, though, I'll shoot something tomorrow.
 



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