"Best" N-scale EMD/GE DCC diesels: Run DC-only w/Kato Soundbox?

[Chevron_GATX]

So, I've made the decision . . . I'm going with the "big" 'N'.

I'm thinking of running both Southern Pacific and Union Pacific since I see both roadnames used quite a lot in the Los Angeles area. My preferred roadname is Southern Pacific, but going with N-scale leaves me fewer selections. Here's what I see available in SP roadnames on MTS' site so far:

1. Atlas Master Line GE B30-7: DCC-ready [Southern Pacific, Roman-typeface logo; three available road numbers]
2. Atlas EMD GP30: DCC-equipped [Cotton Belt; three available road numbers]
3. Atlas EMD GP30 Phase 2 DCC-ready [Cotton Belt; three available road numbers]
4. Bachmann EMD DDA40X DCC-equipped [Union Pacific; three available road numbers]

[Edit: See post in page 3 of this thread to see which locos I ended up with.]

Now, since I'm unsure of how feasible the required modifications are for in-loco sound production (or, wiring to a "buffer" car to house speakers), I'm thinking of running all engines as DC-only. I watched the Kato Soundbox demo, and it sounds pretty amazing. I also really like the option of using different Soundtraxx cards, and I've already picked out the two I would like to get (should I go this route):

A. Third-generation GE diesel.
B. Third-generation EMD diesel.

So then, since all of my engines are either DCC-ready, or actually have decoders built-in, does this seem like an unnecessary expense? I don't really need DCC capability other than the fact that I would like sound. But since N-scale is so small, I'm sure I would be disappointed by any in-engine sound transducers, even if I were able to fit them in somewhere. Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions!

 

[santafewillie]

Good Morning Chervon_GATX - You state

I'm trying to model a present-day railroad, so, GP-series locos were at the top of my list.

I'm not trying to nit-pick here, but in another thread you mentioned that you were a "newbie", and you may not know all the history.
All of the diesels that you mention are rather old for present day. The GP30 is over 50 years old (made 1961-1963) and is actually the first of the "second generation" diesels made. The DDA40X would be 45+ years old (made 1968-1971) and as far as I know, only one is still in service. The B30-7 is the baby at 33 years old (made 1978-1983).
All of these diesels would be appropriate for late 70's - early 80's. I'm sure that there are still a few GP30's left, but probably as re-builts known as GP30u's or GP39's.
This is all intended for guidance. It is of course, your railroad and you are allowed to do anything as long as you are having fun. I know a gentleman who pulls autoracks and container trains with a UP Big Boy!
I'm also thinking that at least in Texas, the SP road number on the cab only, has been patched out with UP numbering and lettering.

Willie

 

[Beady]

So, I've made the decision . . . I'm going with the "big" 'N'.

I'm thinking of...

Whatever floats your boat. Your railroad, your rules.

I am also a relative newbie, and I've gone N scale. I'm just in the planning/hoarding stages, and I'm going to be abusing the Freelance definition to the point of outright absurdity. Quite simply, if it strikes my fancy, I'll run it. Mechanically, I've opted to go Kato Unitrack, exclusively. Their plug-n-play system is ideal for newcomers and the creatively challenged. Since I'm both, it's the only viable option. Scenery-wise, the flora and landforms are going to be representative rather than photographic. Streets and roads are going to be made of the stuff that is basically colored tape. Ready-made trees are cheap. I'll be choosing easy over authentic as a default.

But that's just me.

Oh crap!

 

[malibu43]

Good Morning Chervon_GATX - You state
I'm not trying to nit-pick here, but in another thread you mentioned that you were a "newbie", and you may not know all the history.
All of the diesels that you mention are rather old for present day. The GP30 is over 50 years old (made 1961-1963) and is actually the first of the "second generation" diesels made. The DDA40X would be 45+ years old (made 1968-1971) and as far as I know, only one is still in service. The B30-7 is the baby at 33 years old (made 1978-1983).
All of these diesels would be appropriate for late 70's - early 80's. I'm sure that there are still a few GP30's left, but probably as re-builts known as GP30u's or GP39's.
This is all intended for guidance. It is of course, your railroad and you are allowed to do anything as long as you are having fun. I know a gentleman who pulls autoracks and container trains with a UP Big Boy!
I'm also thinking that at least in Texas, the SP road number on the cab only, has been patched out with UP numbering and lettering.

Willie

Agree with "your railroad; your rules", but I can also confirm that in California I rarely see GPs still painted in SP colors and lettering, and when I do, they have definitely been patched with UP numbers.

 

[Iron Horseman]

1. Now, since I'm unsure of how feasible the required modifications are for in-loco sound production (or, wiring to a "buffer" car to house speakers), I'm thinking of running all engines as DC-only. I watched the Kato Soundbox demo, and it sounds pretty amazing. I also really like the option of using different Soundtraxx cards, and I've already picked out the two I would like to get (should I go this route):

A. Third-generation GE diesel.
B. Third-generation EMD diesel.

So then, since all of my engines are either DCC-ready, or actually have decoders built-in, does this seem like an unnecessary expense? I don't really need DCC capability other than the fact that I would like sound. But since N-scale is so small, I'm sure I would be disappointed by any in-engine sound transducers, even if I were able to fit them in somewhere. Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions!

First let me say I am out of my element here, as I only have one sound equipped N-scale locomotive (an Athearn 4-6-6-4), and I have never installed sound in an N-scale locomotive. Having said that, I am inclined to agree with your observation that the options are limited, the installs will probably be difficult, and I seriously doubt the sound quality would be much better than a cell phone. If one has a half way decent ear, they aren't going to sound too good. I have a hard time accepting the quality of sound from HO units, I can only imagine what the N-scales sound like. You might want to consider an off- board static sound system (is that what the Kato Soundbox is?), or if you have the bucks a SurroundTrax system.

Then even if you do go with sound, as the others have already pointed out, none of the locomotives mentioned are 3rd generation units, so the sound options picked would not match the locos.

 

[Chevron_GATX]

I'm not trying to nit-pick here, but in another thread you mentioned that you were a "newbie", and you may not know all the history.
All of the diesels that you mention are rather old for present day . . .

Morning! Not nit-picky at all. Thanks for your detailed post! Yeah, I'm aware that all three locos I selected are pretty old, and if included in a present-day layout, it would be out-of-period. The B30-7 reportedly is mostly out-of-service and the DDA40X' Wiki entry does say there's only one left running. Since most observers won't be able to pick out a GP30 from its more recent brethren, I'm not too concerned about substituting a GP30 for newer GP-series locos. I just wish I had more modern options in the SP roadname.

Since I don't have a lot of options, I've been half-thinking (as you suggest) of modeling the 1970-1980s period instead, though I did really have my heart set on modeling present-day. Or, perhaps I'll switch my primary roadname to Union Pacific and see if there are more modern options under that road name (as I recall, the UP options were rather limited as well). The third option is to just freelance it: Use the Dash-7s anyway. I'll probably just buy the DDA40X for spite. It's too fun of a loco not run, regardless of its non-protoness.

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Agree with "your railroad; your rules", but I can also confirm that in California I rarely see GPs still painted in SP colors and lettering, and when I do, they have definitely been patched with UP numbers.

Well, perhaps I'm relying on train observation memories that are actually older than I imagined? I grew up in the South Bay and thought I saw gray-and-red SP GP-series locos around, but as a kid I probably didn't know what I was looking at. I viewed a more recent YouTube video of the line going to the El Segundo refinery, and it appeared to be running a Dash-7 with a Union Pacific roadname. I wish I could pin down exactly what's running around here (since I don't actually know), but I suppose that would mean a significant amount of track-sitting.

I'm also thinking that at least in Texas, the SP road number on the cab only, has been patched out with UP numbering and lettering.

Willie

I thought this may have been the case--from the Union Pacific website: "The Southern Pacific merged with Union Pacific on Sept. 11, 1996. On August 21, 2006, our tribute to the Southern Pacific was introduced during a special employee event in Roseville, Calif. The new locomotive incorporates Southern Pacific’s historic colors and graphic elements to honor the men and women of the SP." So have all the SP locos been slowly re-painted to UP schemes since the merger? Or, as both you and malibu43 mention, only the SP numbers covered-up with UP numbers?

 

[Chevron_GATX]

I am also a relative newbie, and I've gone N scale . . . Mechanically, I've opted to go Kato Unitrack, exclusively. Their plug-n-play system is ideal for newcomers and the creatively challenged. Since I'm both, it's the only viable option. Scenery-wise, the flora and landforms are going to be representative rather than photographic. Streets and roads are going to be made of the stuff that is basically colored tape. Ready-made trees are cheap. I'll be choosing easy over authentic as a default.

I'm with you--I'm going all Kato Unitrack as well, plus Kato Unitram. Have you seen the Unitram roadway stuff? It's pretty cool. I also just bought a pile of Tomix and Kato N-scale pre-built scenery, and from the photos, they look pretty cool. Not too terribly expensive, though I did pay $40 for one building (Kato Diatown office building). Some buildings were only about $16. I'm excited to get my Tomix 7-11 store, for which I paid only $26, including shipping. The scenic models provide a lot of detail that I would never be able to achieve myself from scratch.

 

[Chevron_GATX]

. . . I am inclined to agree with your observation that the options are limited, the installs will probably be difficult, and I seriously doubt the sound quality would be much better than a cell phone. If one has a half way decent ear, they aren't going to sound too good. I have a hard time accepting the quality of sound from HO units, I can only imagine what the N-scales sound like. You might want to consider an off- board static sound system (is that what the Kato Soundbox is?), or if you have the bucks a SurroundTrax system.

Not out of your element at all! Really appreciate your thoughts on the topic! As I suspected, you've confirmed my suspicions regarding in-loco sound-generation. Check out the Kato Soundbox video demo below--it's pretty impressive. It's designed to physically, electrically (and, logically!) mate with the Kato controller, but you can also connect, say, an MRC controller as well (though, some compatibility issues have been reported with non-Kato locos [apparently, Atlas engines work fine]).

The neat thing about the DC-only Soundbox (well, there's a couple of neat things about it), is that it adds "momentum" to the otherwise "momentum-less" Kato controller. It also takes a number of Soundtraxx plug-in (non-standard) memory cards. It's kinda pricey, but it's pretty neat product for non-DCC railmen. I would eventually like to get two Soundboxes, and will end up with a total of four controllers.


Katy Soundbox, Kato USA

 

[Chevron_GATX]

This is all intended for guidance. It is of course, your railroad and you are allowed to do anything as long as you are having fun. I know a gentleman who pulls autoracks and container trains with a UP Big Boy!

Willie

Again, "guidance" is what I'm here for! Well, I just clicked "buy now" on the UP "Big Boy" DDA40X for $79, my very first N-scale loco! I don't feel quite right about freelancing its proper period of operation, but how could I resist? It's got 12-wheel drive, it's DCC-equipped with a built-in dual-mode decoder ("designed for after-market sound installation"), its f'ing huge (which is okay since I'm N-scale), all for 79 bucks.

 

[santafewillie]

Well, perhaps I'm relying on train observation memories that are actually older than I imagined? I grew up in the South Bay and thought I saw gray-and-red SPs GP-series locos around, but as a kid I probably didn't know what I was looking at. I viewed a more recent YouTube video of the line going to the El Segundo refinery, and it appeared to be running a Dash-7 with a Union Pacific roadname. I wish I could pin down exactly what's running around here (since I don't actually know), but I suppose that would mean a significant amount of track-sitting.



I thought this may have been the case--from the Union Pacific website: "The Southern Pacific merged with Union Pacific on Sept. 11, 1996. On August 21, 2006, our tribute to the Southern Pacific was introduced during a special employee event in Roseville, Calif. The new locomotive incorporates Southern Pacific’s historic colors and graphic elements to honor the men and women of the SP." So have all the SP locos been slowly re-painted to UP schemes since the merger? Or, as both you and malibu43 mention, only the SP numbers covered-up with UP numbers?

Take pictures and post them here and someone will be able to ID them.
I haven't really seen an SP/SSW/DRGW scheme in a couple of years, but I only observe on a major main line between Ft Worth and Sherman TX. There may still be some on lesser branches or yard duty. Even so, they were all patched by 2000.
Again, it's your railroad, your rules. I slide a bit with running late-90's Ethanol tankers with a 1978-1990 (pretty wide range) era layout.

Willie

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Take pictures and post them here and someone will be able to ID them.
I haven't really seen an SP/SSW/DRGW scheme in a couple of years, but I only observe on a major main line between Ft Worth and Sherman TX. There may still be some on lesser branches or yard duty. Even so, they were all patched by 2000 . . .

Willie

Interesting to know--thanks! I don't think the refinery service is daily--I'll have to make friends with the Chevron people and ask around. In light of what you said, I probably am remembering locos from my childhood, rather than recent memory. As I said, I saw a YouTube video of a train running that line in what appeared to be a UP-logo'd Dash-7. I'll definitely be on the look-out from now on, with a camera in-hand.

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Here are some catalog shots of the SP-logo'd diesels available in N-scale:

 

[Chevron_GATX]

In the first row of catalog shots posted above, in the "Atlas" GP30s, you can see that they have both the highest list price and highest selling price. They're also the only Atlas models which explicitly say they're "DCC-equipped." Presuming that the Atlas "Master Line" (third-row Dash-7s) are the "premium" locos in Atlas' line-up must be incorrect, since they're priced like a DC-only engine.

Note that the "Master Line" moniker, I thought, was supposed to imply DCC-ready, or DCC-equipped. Perhaps they're "Master" in detail only? The GP30s in the top row don't say anything in the description, so there's no indication whether they're "Classic," "Trainman," Red Box," "Master," or "Master Silver," "Master Gold." Again, what I really looking for were more up-to-date versions: GP40s, or GP60s, but that's about it for SP roadnames in N-scale locos.

Okay, I did some research on Atlas' site:

Atlas N GP30: "Classic" monikered as "digital" on Atlas site ($154.95 MSRP version).
Atlas N GP30 Phase 2: [No listing, but I assume the following]: "Classic" monikered as "analog" ($119.95 MSRP version).
Atlas N GP35: "Master" monikered only as "standard" on Atlas site, but listed under Atlas' "Classic" section ($119.95 MSRP version).
Atlas Master Line N B30-7: "Master" monikered as "analog" on Atlas site ($124.95 MSRP version).
Atlas Master Line N B30-7: "Master" monikered as "digital" on Atlas site ($159.95 MSRP version).

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Here's a frame-grab of that YouTube video I mentioned of a UP El Segundo, California line (not my video):

If the displayed UP road number, 2702, is correct, then, according to RRPictureArchives' database, it's a former rebuilt SP loco, an EMD SD40M-2 (though the cab's hood looks more like a Dash-7's). Anyone care to confirm? It's running two engines in tandem (back-to-back), pulling ten 31K tank cars (no buffer car), and eight covered hoppers (I have no idea what they'd use the hoppers for around here).

 

[bnsf971]

Here's one that would be "more better" for you, and currently on sale, too:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Walthers-N-EMD-GP38-2-UP-791-p/929-50312.htm

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Yes, thanks! Here's two additional UP locos I was considering:

Walthers GP-38-2: DCC-ready ($64.99)
Kato SD-45: DCC-ready ($69.99)
Kato SD-90: DCC-ready ($74.99)

At only $64.99, I'd be tempted to buy a pile of GP38s if they weren't all in the same road number (as well as being out-of-stock at the moment). The DCC-ready Kato SD45s and Kato SD90s (apparently with two available road numbers) look pretty sweet as well, both at an affordable price. Plus, they're Kato. I'll be running Kato track and controllers, plus the Kato Soundbox, so if I had a choice, I would love to run Kato locos, exclusively. Unfortunately, all of the Kato SD-series engines are currently out-of-stock as well. I wonder how the Walthers (non-proto) and Kato compare for color and detailing? I would be tempted to switch from my aesthetic preference for the SP roadname to the UP roadname as my principle line, and load up on as many Walthers' GP38s as I could carry.

Though, if I do go UP, I'd have to stay within a single manufacturer since I suspect "UP yellow" varies considerably in exact hue from manufacturer to manufacturer. One other fly in the ointment is that I just made that impulse-buy for that Bachmann DDA40X Big Boy, which one customer already reported was too "orange-ey."

Originally, I was going to just go with the Southern Pacific-branded Atlas Master Line B30-7 analog locos (even though they'll be slightly out-of-period) since they look very similar to what's actually running on my local line. That way, my railroad would be dominated by bloody-nosed, gray SP locos, with the one, stand-alone "orange-ey" UP DDA40X super-loco. Plus, I plan on running a ton of Railbox cars, and that's going to be a lot of yellow on the track.

 

[tootnkumin]

Here's one that would be "more better" for you, and currently on sale, too:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Walthers-N-EMD-GP38-2-UP-791-p/929-50312.htm

Somebody else thinks so too Terry, between your post and mine, they're now OOS.

 

[bnsf971]

Armor Yellow varies greatly per locomotive in the real world. The only time I would worry about it is if I had a matching set of E or F units.
Some of the early Kato SD45s had inconsistent paint on each engine. Kato painted the side sills separately from the main shell and cab, and sometimes all were slightly different shades.

BTW, Klein moves stuff pretty fast, if you see something you want, and it's in stock, grab it then. The GP60 was in stock when I posted the link, after being out of stock, and now is out of stock again.

 

[bnsf971]

Here's a frame-grab of that YouTube video I mentioned of a UP El Segundo, California line (not my video):

If the displayed UP road number, 2702, is correct, then, according to RRPictureArchives' database, it's a former rebuilt SP loco, an EMD SD40M-2 (though the cab's hood looks more like a Dash-7's). Anyone care to confirm? It's running two engines in tandem (back-to-back), pulling ten 31K tank cars (no buffer car), and eight covered hoppers (I have no idea what they'd use the hoppers for around here).

That is a genset, built on the frame of a retired road diesel.