Am I the only one who just wants to watch trains run and not worry about "operation"?


M

mondo1948

New Member
Hi Guys,
I've been into HO scale model railroading since 1993. My last layout was designed by myself and friends to have lots and lots of complex "operating" capability, with staging areas for through freights and passenger trains, along with a classification yard, with turntable, engine house and all the "fixins" for a typical yard. There were over 26 industries, needing the railroad to support their businesses. I even had a car ferry and wharf. Needless to say, building for "operation" makes for some very expensive and time consuming trackwork (lots and lots of switches). We made sure there were trailing point and facing point spurs, in order to provide challenging operation and trackage that got very, very complicated.....all in support of operation.

Here's the "rub".....after almost 10 years of building that layout, I couldn't get guys to come over and really operate the railroad. I had 6 walk-around radio throttles that were wired for block control, using rotary switches and never had more than 3 guys in the train room. I posted on this forum, inviting people to come over and operate. One guy drove up from New Jersey to Connecticut, where I live, but we didn't spend much time operating...he just marveled at my scenery. Another time a couple of guys came over and they each ran a local train, picking up and dropping off cars, but most time was spent just gabbing.

I know, some would say I should have just operated the layout myself. Look at what I built....all in the name of "operation". I could have taken a deck of those car forwarding cards and run a few locals myself, but I just didn't do it. I must admit that I really don't care about "operating" a railroad. I just like watching trains run through scenery, like I did with my American flyer train set back in the 1950's.

I tore up that layout in order to move to a new home by the Connecticut shore. My new basement has an area about 26' x 26'.....more space than I had ever dreamed of having for a new layout. My latest thinking for the new layout is where I'm looking for input from you folks. I'm thinking of just creating a giant horseshoe shaped layout, with a double-track mainline running around the horseshoe. While I will have crossovers, a yard and plenty of spurs to feed those industrial buildings I've saved from my previous layout, I plan to wire the outer and inner mainline tracks so that each is run by a single radio throttle. The wiring will be simple....a heavy gauge bus running from each power pack under both of the mainline tracks, with feeder wires soldered from rails above to the bus wires. Of course, with this wiring scheme, I'll only be able to run trains on the outer and inner mains with no capability to cross over from one to the other. Trains will just run and run and run, with no operating capabilities. I won't be able to go into the yard, break off an engine and run into the engine house. Of course, for "reality", I will have an engine or two parked in the engine house and one sitting on a non-operating turntable. Cars will be placed on sidings, but they will never get picked up or replaced with loaded cars. The yard will have some blocks of cars parked in there, but they will only get moved if I pick them up and replace them once in a while. Come to think of it, what I just described was exactly what I was doing for several years....watching trains run and NO OPERATION.

Oh, by the way, I realize I could get a DCC unit, replacing my power packs and radio throttles, but then I would have to install decoders in my 40 New Haven engines. So, I think I'll just forget about DCC, especially if I'm just going to watch trains run.

Tell my if I'm the only one that just likes to watch trains run? And, please tell me if I'm crazy for not building a layout again that supports operation.

Thanks,
Mondo
 
To be honest that is me. I just enjoy letting people see the scenery and I enjoy seeing my collection going around the double mains. I'll play around in the yard ever once in a while but that is it. Build what makes YOU happy [emoji4]


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I think you're the only one who only wants to watch the trains run. The rest of us on the forum here do operations, with intensity.
Reading your story about your previous layout, I get the impression it was DC, right? Rotary switches, blocks and complex turnouts will intimidate most modelers on a foreign layout. Lots of learning curve for the short time they'll be at your house.
Expanding the operating area so it isn't clustered will encourage operations because it doesn't look so confusing.
My empire is in a 2000 square foot basement but I only have 14 industries spread across it to provide that openness. As visitors come over to operate, I'll start them out with just running trains for about an hour, then transition into operations for about an hour and a half. That gives em enough time to complete a few assignments and then we go back to just running.
Of course, with DCC it makes it much easier to just focus on running the train instead of figuring which block they are in. The turnouts are all local single push button right on the scenery surface next to the turnout so they aren't trying to figure out where they are on a local panel.
 
I love scenery and want lots of it BUT continuous running kind of trumps operations on my "layout". Right now it's a "quad main" and a big yard though changes are in the works for the summer. It will be three mains outside and an inner loop or two, I'm not sure how much track I'll need. I have just a tad more room, 30x30 with a stairway in the middle. I wound up with this.
WIN_20150903_084930.JPGI just built the biggest table I could fit in the space and started putting track on it, the only thing for sure was the wide ends to turn the track back into the main area and after that anything goes.
WIN_20151107_171537.JPGI'm a total newb and all this is fresh snow to me, I'm just mucking about seeing what looks good that I can fit in. I'm on my third or fourth big redo and almost ready to put down some scenery.
DSCF4440.jpgI've gotten pretty good at laying "bullet proof" lines and on each set up I've been able to get em set and let em run, run, run! I don't mind who is pulling what, I just like em!
 
Folded loop double main with the entire arrangement around the walls and me having to either crawl in on my hands 'n knees or lift a swing-up hinged gate. I like to watch my trains. I like to switch occasionally, or run a switcher up a logging run or a switchback to a coal mine and spot some loads and empties. I like switching in the yard briefly to make up a train. I enjoy hand-lining a route by manipulating my turnouts manually. Real operations? Not so much. I'm a lone wolf and I like just doing my thing, not taking a turn at a desk dispatching.

Thing is, I don't really enjoy the process of building my layouts. I have to build them in order to enjoy running trains in the setting I create, but that's it. Running my trains over bridges, by reflecting ponds or lakes, through yards and by parks...that's what I enjoy.
 
mondo1948 said:
Hi Guys,
Tell my if I'm the only one that just likes to watch trains run? And, please tell me if I'm crazy for not building a layout again that supports operation.

Thanks,
Mondo
Click to expand...

No, you're certainly not. For me having at least one continuous loop is a necessity and preferably more. All of the layouts I've been considering lately have them as well as some method of getting to the potential next panel of the layout.

Crazy would be doing like I'm about to do and taking apart the passenger cars to install people that you won't likely even see while the train is in motion. Crazy would probably also be sawing an n-scale dood in half in order to have an engineer for the train because the locomotive only allows space for a person from the waist up.
 
I'd do the same thing, I like railfanning the layout too. I usually have just one train running on it's own while I work on projects.
But I would also have a couple places to switch things now and then as the mood hits and to keep things interesting.
If I were to start over again I wouldn't go with DCC, I'd go with the Ring Engineering Railpro system, its radio control and can be done gradually.
 
I LOVE watching my trains runs, but as I have built my layout I have really gotten into the scenery aspect of modeling and now I am dipping my toes into scratch building stuff.
My layout is a glorified circuit. My next expansion (good wife willing) will include a nice yard and/or an industry so I could play with a little bit of operation, but for the most part, the most operation I get into right now is when I want to put a loco on the programming track. I have that built in as a parking siding and store a couple of random coaches there. I'll do a little switching action to get them in and out.

Like the others have said: Build what you like so that you will enjoy it. As time goes on, your moods may change and your layout may change with them. That helps keep it interesting. :)
 
"Ops" is cool and all and the trains have to have something to do but I was scared straight on another forum when researching watching guys pound their heads into walls because they could not pound the proto into their layouts! Getting "verclempt" because a siding could not be made EXACTLY like the "real" one made NO sense to me. It does not have to be a cut and dried, either/or, proto/non, us vs them situation! SURE in one or two spots I'd like to "model" an industry and "operate" there accordingly but throwing loops out from there to "nowhere" does not bother me. It does not ALL have to have anymore purpose than keeping it between the rails. Somebody please SLAP me if I should take model trains or MYSELF too seriously!
 
I personally think having zero potential for operations will get old. On the other hand I would go for 'less' operations. I actually did when I switched from nscale to HO. My current layout is pretty simple with most of the complexities taking place in the staging yard. In many places there are miles between industries on the mainlines especially out West. A few industries, a two crossovers and a properly located staging track would be fairly simple and if you get bored you can adjust the track plan with little effort.

Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway
 
RBMNfan said:
I personally think having zero potential for operations will get old. On the other hand, I would go for 'less' operations.
Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway
Click to expand...

I have just enough operating as I want. No schedules or cards but there are days I want to park engines in the roundhouse, send others to yards, etc. I run a business and run operations all day long. Model railroading is relaxation and therapy for me. I also run anything I want on my layout, I don't really care about being "Era" correct. I like a lot of different lines, engines, etc.

I also have been to clubs and seen arguments. Really? I don't want that. To the people that do mainly operations I admire your knowledge and detail but sorry just not for me.

So "run them if you got them Boys !" :p

My Link to my new layout:http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/...g-inspired-from-my-old-Central-Midland-Layout
 
That's my biggest question that I'm trying to answer myself. I like roundy rounds if they're big enough to not look like the layout around the tree at Christmas. But some operations give it more interest, right? So some sort of compromise needs to be made.

The important thing is to do what makes you happy.
 
I do enjoy seeing trains run. That's what trains are all about.

My layout is a point to point layout with a yard and engine facility at each end, BUT with the use of some hidden staging tracks, I can run trains continuously. My preference is switching and that is what the layout was built for. I have 20 some rail customers on the layout, many of them supplying other industries on the layout. An operating session for a local freight train starting out of a yard with a dozen or so cars can sometimes take as long as four hours. Like Rico, when I am doing work on the layout, I will sometimes pull a train out of one of the yards and let it run while I'm working. I enjoy watching a train go through scenery. I have even, on occasion, left the train room and forgot that I left a train running and come back a day, or days later to see it still making its rounds.

Years ago I used to help out the Great Falls Model Railroad Club during state fair when they would have their layout open to the public and operating. There we would have long trains running around the layout all day for public display. Didn't mind that at all. I also have some model railroad friends in Missouri who we visit regularly and they have very large home layouts as well as a large club layout. These are amazing layouts. Huge, Operating sessions on these layouts can be a real blast. Operating signals, as many as 20 or more trains running at one time all being controlled by dispatchers.

So long as trains are running in some form, I enjoy them.
 
I like going around the track a little with the trains but found out my main fun is creating the layout and buildings and making realistic scenes.

Some times I will do operations but usually prefer to change something up with the scene or rolling stock available on the layout. I like to leave several buildings unattached but build roads into the layout than do some redistribution or replacement of the buildings.
 
I like both. Sometimes I just want to run a train, others I like to operate. Build what pleases you.
 
mondo1948 said:
Tell my if I'm the only one that just likes to watch trains run? And, please tell me if I'm crazy for not building a layout again that supports operation.
Click to expand...
We are all crazy for building layouts to begin with! :) But, seriously, if you think about it, just running a train down the track is operating. It is just a different form of "operations". I spent all new years day running a train around a double track main line loop (with 8 other guys). Did we do any switching? - no. Did we run the trains on a schedule? - no. Did we make and break trains in the yard? - no. The closest thing to operating as you are referring to was that the fellows running with steam power stopped at the watering stands. But in my opinion it was still an "operating session" because trains were moving (operating) on the tracks.

One of my layout design goals is to make it such that it can be operated all the way from a way freight switchers delight to a high rail dispatchers challenge. Just running trains around the loop would fall somewhere in that range.
 
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My 2 cents!!

Having a train run in circles non stop day after day will at one point become boring for me. That is why I have a double main line, one line could be for continuous run, while the other could be use for operations.
I was told that to operate my layout (when completed), I would need about 6 people. Well, I live in the boon docks, not many railroaders around, so operations will mostly be me, myself and I.

When I do operations, it will be for one industry, while running a train on the other line, that way I have the best of both worlds
 
SUNDRIVE.JPGHi Lloyd,
You say that your layout will require 6 guys to operate, which is how many I needed to run my previous layout. I never could get 3 guys over the house and most of the time, we ended up just watching trains run and gabbing. I really love building scenery.....here are a couple of photos of my favorite scenes.

River2.jpg
 
Iron Horseman said:
But, seriously, if you think about it, just running a train down the track is operating. It is just a different form of "operations". . .
Click to expand...
I like that definition! I've never had much interest in operations. I would more interested in operations if coupling/de-coupling were somehow automated, not requiring operator intervention using bamboo skewers. However, everyone always says that a roundy-round layouts get boring after a while. At the rate I'm going, having trains running at all would be a Godsend. Perhaps once I finish my layout (at least until the point where I can run trains again), I may in fact find that boring, but I at least want to get to the point where I can run trains continuously while I'm building the rest of my scenery.

mondo1948 said:
Tell my if I'm the only one that just likes to watch trains run? And, please tell me if I'm crazy for not building a layout again that supports operation.
Click to expand...
I don't think you're crazy at all. As a predominately "rail-fanning" operator myself, I often feel like a second-class citizen among other, more operations-oriented hobbyists. Unlike a lot of others, my layout is specifically designed for continuous running, with two (planned) double-track loops, plus a fifth, elevated electric-train loop.

That's five independent loops, all-analog, each with its own MRC 3000GS DC-controller (I like the feel of Tech II-series' 300°-range, dampened throttle-knobs). An MRC 2800 dual-cab controls my two Kato Portram trams on my double-track Unitrack loop. I also have a Kato controller for turnout control which also powers my analog Kato Soundbox. I bought a special DC-controller a Tomix 5517-PU which has a "constant lighting" feature to keep the trains' lights on when not moving This controller powers my electric commuter train line (a Tomix Odakyu, similar to an American-style modern subway), and is the most likely candidate for automated DC-control.

TOMIXlightcontrol-1.png


However, I am expanding my horizons and thinking of installing one or more point-to-point Kato Portram tramlines using either a simple diode-based, automatic-reversing circuit, or something fancier like RR-Concepts'' StationMaster/YardMaster automated controllers for analog layouts. Maybe even a Tomix' 5563 TCS automatic operation unit (a DC-controller with multiple programmable stops which uses Tomix sensors you place in Tomix FineTrack).
 
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