advanced dcc signalling system?


DCC signal system- need your advice

Hi everyone,

I need your suggestion for a signal system. which do you use? are you happy with that? and, is your layout conected to your PC?
soon i hope to start build my own layout, and i will include a multiple stagin yards, crosssovers and double crosssovers, slipswitches, etc.
Just wonder which system is the most recomended for that complex rail plan,
one other thing- is it a good idea to computerizing the layout? is it working well with a signal system?
I'd like to your opinion about that

thank you!
 
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I'm really not qualified to answer you, since I have a very simple signaling system. One of our members, Rexhea, is a real expert with this, and I'm sure he'll jump in with some suggestions. My questions is how much experience you have building layouts with this kind of trackage and complicated signaling? I'm not trying to discourage you if you've got the money and skills, but this can be a very expensive and years long project to complete.
 
I did built in the past several layouts, and one of them i remember, came out with a very complex track arrangement, though the guy i build the layout for didnt want any signals (go figure..:D)I do have experience with DCC, and electronic, but dont know too much as for signaling

the time is not an issue, as it is my lifetime project :)
 
Put my eye on the NCE's signaling system or logic rail tech system but they have a limited track arrangement, no complex trackage capability
 
It's certainly possible to do what you're talking about, but I believe nobody makes a complete system for it. In principle it's not complicated--bring in the state of the railroad (location of trains, setting of turnouts) to the computer, and send out the state of signals. The computer does the calculation based on the incoming data combined with fixed tables on what connects to what, and any speed restrictions that may exist.

The questions are first, can you build hardware to obtain the incoming data and send out the signal control information, and second, can you write the software that connects the two?

If you have the money, Bruce Chubb's system does handle the hardware tasks. But that's not the whole story.

Here's something that might sharpen your appetite. The right hand signal is showing double red, and obviously with those converging tracks, only one signal can clear! The left hand signal is yellow over green, "Approach Medium", implying a diverging branch at the next signal. There is a branch, although you can't see it in the picture:

sigs_3.jpg
 
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I hope you don't mind me not typing this again, but this is part of a post I made on an earlier thread. I hope it helps and if you have more questions, fire away;).

If you already have your layout track down, you will need to study the operations of signals and how they can apply to your layout. You can go prototypical that most visitor operators don't understand or keep it simple with Red=stop, Yellow= caution/slow, Green=go. This is your choice; either way adds loads of fun and will improve traffic flow with several trains running.

I use a Super Chief for a command center and all Digitrax hardware for my block detection and signal drivers. The wiring is actually fairly simple for block detection with one wire from the block detection board per block and the common rail wire of all blocks in that power district back to your command module/track power. The detection rail will be gapped at each end of the block.

The brains for my operation is handled by Railroad and Company software. http://www.freiwald.com/
This software is very user friendly and there is nothing it can't do; no programming knowledge needed. The downside is it can be expensive ranging in price: $129-$389-$584. (I suggest the upgradable $389 Silver for a beginner) This software can even run your trains automatically and provide exact and timed stops along the way(I use this for my passenger trains and run the freights manually). All trains can be monitored by location and auto-emergency stopped if needed, i.e. no pasture meets.

I would like to suggest you visit the Digitrax site and download the manuals for the BDL168 and the SE signal driver. This is the block detection board and will give you a lot of information about how to layout your blocks and how it all works. The RR&Co site also has a lot of info and sample diagrams.
 
Hi RexHea. thnk you for the info. i visited the digitrax site and found some useful information.

I think i'll hook up the layout to PC,I like the idea and rr&co. seems just fine!
hope that will well, i attached a pic of part from my layout planas in prototype, i want to mount those 'dwarf' searchlight signals next to (almost) each slipswitch
what do you think? will RR&CO. program along digitrax's se and detectors able to handle this?
 
NOTE: the term programming in the following is used loosely. All you do is select conditions from a menu.;)

Yes, RR&co will handle it easily assuming all T.O.'s are with stationary decoders with detection blocks setup on the rungs, lead(s) track, etc., and have the signal light driver board (the sig driver board only drives the correct led from info received from the software). But why just control the yard? Why not the entire layout operation? You'll love it!

The key is the software must know where the trains are: thus the detection. The signal lights are programmed (software) to respond to the conditions you program for the block detection, turnout positions, and where a train is. If you have a route setup that runs through the crossovers, then the software will setup the turnouts in the correct position and give a signal light the color you want for that condition(s) (you have two, three, and four light capability, including flashing light). Note: It is usually advisable not to include turnouts/crossovers in the "physical" detection block, but they are still included by the software in all controls, routes, and schedules. The reason is this can become problematic in the computers control of routes and the reserving of blocks. You have to understand more about the software, but this doesn't present any problems.

You didn't say what Command system you are using. If it is Digitrax, then all communications are handled by the included LocoNet: from the detection board to the computer, to the light driver board, and to other ancillary devices. You will have to read about the Digitrax detection and sig board to see its compatibility with other manufacturers. Railroad&Company will work with most all USA companies and several European.

My layout is a large double car garage with ~1500 feet of track on three levels. All the mainlines are bi-directional. I have had as many as 10 individual trains manually running and three passengers on automatic at one time without a mishap. Each train and its route was being monitored by the software and the turnouts, crossovers, signals, and all traffic flow being controlled by the computer. Example: If someone failed to stop on a red, the computer would stop them and put them on hold until the red condition cleared. Blocks ahead are automatically reserved for a train when clear and the turnouts are set to the direction needed by the programmed route. Cool huh? It goes on and on. This software has been around a long time and was recently upgraded last year with more and easier features and now has even more capabilities to some very sophisticated operations. They even field tested it on the huge layout in Hamburg Germany http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/

As has been noted, signals and traffic control requires a lot of time for the installation, but you should always be patient and take your time to plan and understand the entire operation . Also, understand that this is a full hobby within model railroading. I have used most of this past year in getting mine setup to get a good operation going, but there are many things that I can do to make it even better. One thing for sure, be careful in your layout design and include many passing sidings and the use of blocks from the start. This is something I did not do as my layout wasn't going to have signals. I ended up having to install many more passing tracks and also reworking several areas of track. This wasn't a bad thing, as all the areas were weak spots in my operations to begin with.

Expense is high, but if you make your own signals, you can save bundles. Somewhere in this same category "wiring,electronics, DCC", you will find my thread on making your own signals. There are many options available other than what I have chosen, but if you are committed to have a fully functional and automatic signal/traffic control system, this is what I have found to be the best with the most.;):)

EDIT: The manual for Railroad&Company is about 300 pages. You can download this and study parts of it or just read it on your screen. This may answer some of your questions.
 
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Thank you RexHea for that helpful information!
First, after spending the whole day (and night) in reading manuals i made the decision to work with the Digitrax's signal decoders and sensors.
also i decide to hookup the layout to PC for best result and automation of the layout.

as for the command control, i still have to decide. i thought about one of the NCE's systems along with "pro cab" throttle. now im not sure- i might put my hand over one of the digitrax's systems. any recommendations?

Maybe i didn't say that, but all my layout will controlled by decoders and blocks. i was worry about the complex switching area and not the rest, which is the normal mainline and siding..

I found your guide of how to build custom signals and well bravo!! great looking signals. i'll try to build some searchlight signals (as in prototype)
anyway.. a lot to read :)
 
I'm glad that I could help you some. Concerning the type of Command module/system, well.......if you did a search on this forum, you would see that opinions are many and varied. Since you are going to use Digitrax sensors, etc., I would stick to Digitrax for it all. NCE is an excellent system and personal preference seems to be more the deciding factor between it and Digitrax. Both offer excellent operational flexibility and very reliable. Just make sure everything you put together is compatible. The Digitrax model you would choose would largely depend on the size of the layout and how many trains you want to run. I would choose the Super Chief (5amp or 8amp) that offers plenty of power and all features. Let me know if I can be of further help. Oh yeah.....have fun! ;):D
 
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