8x4 to 10x7 - Now what!.....


F

fast_ian

Member
Hi,

"Long time lurker, newbie poster."

Cutting a long story short(er), this whole "adventure" actually began with HO scale slot cars - I eventually got a nice track flowing on the 8x4 and was going to "cast it in stone" (OK, hydrocal) and landscape it based loosely on the area around Virginia City, NV - I participate in a hillclimb event there every year. Life was good.

Then I "noticed" the grade crossing over the RR line that's used by the Virginia & Truckee RR shortline and thought "it'd be cool to add a little loop of RR into the slot track!" Then I discovered DCC & JMRI and things went "downhill"....... Suffice to say here I eventually had concentric loops, sidings, DCC controlled turnouts, a wireless throttle and an automatic grade crossing for the slot track.....

Then I decided to start again! Rather than an 8x4 resting on the foosball table at the end of the living room, I'll build it around the walls (and sell the foosball table!) I learnt early on that both the cars and the trains can't be more than about 2' (max 3') from easy reach and while I could get all around the 8x4 other ideas started to bubble around. I went as far as buying and even reading most of Mr Armstrongs book...

Although the space could be configured for a loop, my "givens and druthers" have changed:

- Point to point is the way to go - I no longer think the cars and trains will "interact" very often and would like to have "realistic operations" for at the most 3 operators - The prototype runs a little (3 short cars) passenger train back and forth and the area used to be heavy on mining - Maybe a mine, a wood yard and the like.

- One of the centerpieces of the layout will still be the automatic grade crossing - I have the LEDS flashing and the arms doing their thing automatically on the 8x4. However, there must be a way for a train to do it's thing independently of the slot cars.

- It's a *lot* easier to lay car track (6"radius turns!) after the rails have gone in.

- 3% ruling grade - I was amazed at the sensitivity of loco's on inclines and the car track is even more flexible by comparison.

So, to eventually get to the floor plan - I'll try the png first and post again in a moment.

Cheers,
Ian
 
OK, that worked as expected!

Hopefully the drawing is pretty self explanatory - The dotted red line is the maximum extent of the layout (roughly) - I'm thinking something like the attached as a starting point.

Notes:

- I can "steal" a little at the bottom left (as shown) and still leave the walkway (to the patio door) clear. However, that's sticking out about as much as I think is reasonable - Less would be good!

- I'm completely open to other ideas!

Cheers,
Ian
 
Hi, there! Your space certainly imposes many constraints on you. If I were in your position, I would not encroach on the lower left stairs, but I would give up the location of the desk and use it for more layout. You can run a desk on sliders from the central nook with a slid-out shelf or something. Same for your rail controls.

Crandell
 
Hi Crandell et al,

Thanks for the comments - My idea tank is pretty empty right now.....

A couple more notes:

- I agree, my suggested "desk" location didn't do much apart from eat valuable real-estate.

- There's a dog door at the "upper" end of the sliding door that *must* remain accessible, and while I could encroach in front of that (glass) door, I don't want it poking over that too much.

- Its not stairs to the left - It's a wide, small, step down into the living room - The natural traffic flow (to the sliding door or to the right into the room) wouldn't be impacted by a small-ish overhang.

Attached is another draft - I'll probably do curves rather than corners as shown, but my attempts at doing arcs failed miserably.....

Another gotcha is while RR track can be hidden, the slot cars need good line of sight at (almost) all times - But we can get back to that.

Thanks for any further comments,
Cheers,
Ian
 
Hey,

So, I got into Google Sketchup while "researching" this layout... A couple of screen grabs attached:

- The red area is "tight", but I think reachable - Maybe a mountain or even a "lake" back there - The RR line would be open, and the cars won't fall off a "bridge".
- There's two "areas" starting to appear - The "centerpiece" of one is the crossing, and the other a mine? Virginia City? [The opera house? School?]

So many ideas - I just dunno how to start "laying track" - Even virtually! Help!

:)

Cheers,
Ian
 
May as well plow on here I guess.... It's getting views, if not comments...

The attached is a quick "sketch" of the basics:

- Virginia City will have a passenger depot + a few sidings. "Freight" goes in & out. It's also the highest part of the (RR) layout. It drops down to;
- The Gold Hill Depot + the crossing - There's a siding or two here as well (?)
- Then onto Carson City and more "operating" possibilities.

I've also dropped my requirement that the RR can run independently of the slot track - I'll add a relay to cut power to the cars whenever the gates move....

I'm also pondering either going to a loop (!) or bringing it back on itself - Sort of a U shape twisted in there.

Incidentally, min radius = 24".

The car track can go both higher & lower than the railroad - I'm therefore leaning towards "open cell" construction (?)
 
fast_ian said:
....Incidentally, min radius = 24"...
Click to expand...

Bull-friggin-****!.....

I switched to Xtrkcad and added the maximum "size" possible. I then "cut out" the red section for access. See attached - I could grab a little & there, but that's about it I think...
 
Seems that the 25" up top right is what's hanging things up.
What if you curved the layout from the wall then out away from the glass, looks like the sliding section is at the bottom?

Another option is to not go all the way to the sliding door, just a simple folded dogbone as they say.
Try starting with two 24" circles and move them around while still allowing aisleways and access to the doors. Hope I worded that right?
 
Okay it's rough and undersized but it sort of shows what I'm talking about...:rolleyes:
 
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Rico said:
Seems that the 25" up top right is what's hanging things up.
What if you curved the layout from the wall then out away from the glass, looks like the sliding section is at the bottom?

Another option is to not go all the way to the sliding door, just a simple folded dogbone as they say.
Try starting with two 24" circles and move them around while still allowing aisleways and access to the doors. Hope I worded that right?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the inspiration! I was starting to think I was being ignored!.... I *thought* going from 8x4 to this would be a lot easier than it seems!

I actually did draw (and then drag around) a couple of 24" circles, and your proposal is certainly doable - *Just* - However, to get it to fit the rails are gonna run pretty much "around the edge" - I've pretty much decided (again) that continuos running is out. However, a wye could be laid at the top of the "T" I think - I'll post some more ideas later.

Thanks again for the comments - The lesson here is even an 18" radius needs a lot more space than "envisaged"......

Cheers,
Ian
 
How about something roughly along these lines - curves are 22" radius:

fast_ian.jpg


Height profile:
fast_ian_profile2.jpg


I haven't tried American passenger cars myself (German Märklin passenger cars with truck mounted couplers work just fine on 14" radius curves), but from what I hear from others, 22" radius should work just fine with shortish passenger cars (like Roundhouse 60-foot Harriman cars or Athearn 70-foot cars) or passenger cars with the coupler mounted in such a way that it swivels - like some AHM/Rivarossi passenger cars

Smile,
Stein
 
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steinjr said:
How about something roughly along these lines - curves are 22" radius:
Click to expand...

*Thankyou* so much! That's *way* more than I had any right to expect. Awesome!

What I've now got to do is move the rails (+ industries etc) into the slot car layout program - The crossing can go somewhere in the rectangle in the attached pic. I *can* turn the cars in 12" total when needed, so it seems *easy* after this!

Smile,
Stein
Click to expand...

I certainly am now! Thanks again,
Cheers,
Ian
PS - Did you use xtc? If yes, you know my next question! ;)
 
Mmmm - let's see if I can figure out how to upload an attachment. Seems like xtc is not on the approved file formats list, but zip is.

Did this work?

Smile,
Stein
 
steinjr said:
Mmmm - let's see if I can figure out how to upload an attachment. Seems like xtc is not on the approved file formats list, but zip is.

Did this work?
Click to expand...

It most certainly did. Thanks again! [TBH, the computer that's running xtc is doing other stuff right now, but the zip certainly downloaded as expected. I'm pretty confident it'll be fine.]

However, if there's any mods reading this (?), maybe "xtc" could be added as a known file type? [I guess it could always be PM'd as well?]

Cheers,
Ian
 
Mmm - on second thoughts - I would just have pushed that mine all the way into the corner, so you free up space for a runaround at the mine:

fast_ian_mine2.jpg


Well, time to head for bed.

Grin,
Stein
 
steinjr said:
Mmm - on second thoughts - I would just have pushed that mine all the way into the corner, so you free up space for a runaround at the mine:
Click to expand...

Even better! Absolutely fantastic - Thanks again!

The xtc file did indeed unzip just fine btw.

I *thought* I had a basic understanding of Xtrakcad - I've followed the tutorials after all! ;) At least enough to move the mine like you did at least......

It took me a while to even get the colors showing up the way you did! [The parameter file(s) obviously aren't included in the xtc file itself - Which is OK as long as everyone is using the same one I guess.]

Then I worked back from yours so as to not load a bunch of libs that I don't need.

Then I deleted the old mine track. (*That* was easy ;)). Then I tried to add a turnout - I *think* that eventually snapped in to place, but everything else I tried resolutely refused to "join"..... [Apart from a ~60" radius circle that went thru a wall!]

What an exercise in frustration! [Please note - this is purely my ranting and not a queue for the xtc haters to climb from the woodwork! :)] It's obviously "operator inexperience" - I *will* figure it out, damnit!

Cheers,
Ian
 
Further frustration! [Damnit! I'm generally pretty good with this stuff - Honest!]

I figured that the rolling stock Mr (!) Stein had very kindly put on the rails could be "operated" from within xtc - Not what I *should* be doing, but what the hell! :)

I can indeed move both trains around the layout - Right up until they reach a switch that's thrown the wrong way - I can see the red line in the switch, but can't for the life of me get it to change! :( Help!

TIA, cheers,
Ian
 
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