15' x 13' Plan Mk 2 Comments or Suggestions

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skyliner

Well-Known Member
Hey all, so I scrapped the spaghetti bowl plan I first floated here some months ago, and have come up with the following. It's not an exact plan regarding dimensions, curves, and clearances, think of it more as a general concept for the time being. For example, I didn't mean to leave only 4" between the bottom closet and the layout edge, but I don't know how to shift/shorten the whole plan to the right. If anyone has any comments or sees any problems, let me know.

Scale: HO, code 83
Curves: target of 28-30"+ radius
Continuous running (yeah, I know, but my non-RR friends won't get a P2P layout), "generic modern" era (not specifically modelling a timeframe, as I have a mix of equipment, mostly modern, but a few slightly earlier)
DCC (probably NCE, haven't decided on the system yet)
Possible industries: rock quarry, grain, small intermodal yard, warehouses, lumber
Would like a double-ended yard.

This is a modified around the walls layout, I suppose. I need to keep one corner of the room adjoining an outside wall clear for a work and other hobby area. Hence the open NW corner. Room entry is on the west wall, there's a door between the closets, and one also in the SW corner. I figure this can be operated from the outside or the open inner area. Yeah, I know that's a bit of a duckunder, but I'm still young and don't mind clambering into the middle when needed to work a siding in there. The SW loop area with the quarry would be elevated in the form of a hill over the line entering the yard from the west, which would be in a tunnel most likely. The shop area butts right up to the elevated area, but I envision making it look like a shop tucked up against a hill, with a rock or timber retaining wall and the line running up above it.

What has partially stopped me from adding more sidings and stuff is how quickly the cost is adding up. With quality turnouts and track, the price estimate has me pausing on other ideas like a reversing loop, more spurs, or staging. I've tried to leave some options for expanding those in the future. Thanks for taking a look. -Eric

View attachment Layout4b.pdf

14594543256_dc7f5db5bd_b.jpg
 
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tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I like your plan, Eric, plenty of track for continuous running without looking roundy-roundy and lots of yard work as well. Following your track around I see the crossover at the upper right and how it enhances the track use of the continuous run. I was trying to see if by adding another crossover near the grain silo, between the middle track and the inner one, say, just south of where the middle splits into 2 to form yard tracks, with the crossover also travelling south from the middle track to join into the inner track, lower down (hope you can follow this), just above where the silo tracks branch off, whether this would afford you a reversal of train direction and whether the other existing crossover would effect a return to "normal" direction. Have followed the track around a few times with my pointer and it seems to work. Would add to the variety if so.

I see that you refer to another door in the SW corner of the room, is this your concern about only having 4" between the closet and the layout? Also you have marked this area for future staging. Does this door open inwards or outward from the room and is it needed for access as I cant see how it would be possible to move the layout further away without ruining it (the layout that is). If it's only a nuisance to gain access to that staging area, can it be swung outward or removed?

The NW corner, you've obviously put that kink in the western edge of the layout to avoid that other hobby area. Is it a bench or shelves/cupboard you're trying to get around? Would raising the height of your layout, say, to 50", clear the obstruction without impeding it's use and if a bench, allow it to extend under the layout so as not to loose working area? Certainly being able to straighten that front edge out to meet the window near it's apparent centre would open up the yard and allow some additional space for a RIP or loco servicing track between the 2 "wings" of the yard.

I think you've done a great job with this plan, quite an exiting concept, whether you can employ any of my suggestions is unimportant, I think you'll have a lot of fun with this.
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I think in order to be able to continually change direction i.e. you need either a double crossover either at that location opposite the silos, or possibly preferably for simplicity, instead an extra single crossover, travelling north between the inner and middle tracks on the eastern side lower down than the upper one so as to effect a smooth transition across the 3 tracks, although it's not absolutely necessary to reach the outer track to get the reversal of direction.

OK, to see if the theory holds water, we'll start the journey entering at the SW staging. Enter trav. east proceed north on outer T, turn west over the top and then SW through the main yard. Around the SW lower loop (tunnel) and then NE past the Silos. Rotate south down the eastern side on inner T. Across the bottom and around the loop, taking the outer T, this will bring us back up the outer eastern track which will continue this route. Instead we take the inner loop T which brings us north on the middle track on the eastern side and if we travel over the top on this line and SW through the yard, we repeat the previous journey. Instead we take the new crossover opposite the silos (this crossover could also be positioned over on the eastern side between the same tracks if desired) and this then takes us onto the tunnel T travelling SW which reverses our direction and we can continue to do this also if we choose. We can also then travel back to staging engine first if we wish.

To change direction back to the original, as we travel east over the top and then south by either the middle or outer T's, down the eastern side around the bottom and around the double track loop clockwise. This will bring us travelling north on the inner track. This is where the other new crossover is needed to take us north, onto the middle T. then we can travel either by the middle T or we can crossover again to the outer T via the shown crossover and resume the original direction. These directions of travel could be continually alternated to add more interest.
 
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Beachbum

Member
Have you considered the distance(s) you'll be reaching in case of derailments, etc.? Also, if you plan on being a lone-wolf operator, consider the cost of maintenance in time and $$$. Just a couple thoughts...
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Have you considered the distance(s) you'll be reaching in case of derailments, etc.? Also, if you plan on being a lone-wolf operator, consider the cost of maintenance in time and $$$. Just a couple thoughts...

The SW corner is going to be your biggest headache in that regard (also in the construction phase). It may be necessary to not have the staging in there. Raising the layout could give you the chance to put staging on a lower level beneath the western yard, still accessed from that same layout entry point.
 

wombat457

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Track accessibility is the only issue I can see at the moment as well. From your design, it looks as though you have about a 6' area for a proposed (possible) peninsula expansion. Perhaps you could use some of that area as an access point with a crawl under. That would give you the ability to reach the staging area in the s/e corner and eastern side of the layout.

I maybe misinterpreting you diagram a little here but, it seems as though your layout may (eventually) run in and behind the southern closet. If that is right then your chances of reaching in there for anything are going to be almost nil.
 

skyliner

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments so far. This is a spare bedroom; both doors are on the west wall. The one in the bottom-left (SW) corner connects to the hallway, the one in the middle of the west wall goes thru a bathroom. If this expands into the SW corner, that will block off that door for entry (it does open inward), so the only way in will be by going through the bathroom then into the hallway. That will have to be something to decide in the future, whether I want to do that or not. If so, I imagine something like a 6-8 track staging yard angled such that there will still be some access between the closet and yard. But it will be tight.

I have looked at designs that elevate the layout high enough for a workbench under it, but I just don't think I'd like it that high. I have a spray booth and shelves that I don't think will really work underneath.

The SW corner is the area with potential reach issues, but I'm hoping that by having access on three sides (from E, N, and W of the rock quarry area) will cover most of it. But if necessary, maybe I can include an emergency access hatch near the quarry.

Thank you all for looking and the suggestions thus far.
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The position of the door in the SW corner is helpful info and it sounds like the bathroom is shared, so access through that could be problematical. Unless you can move that SW corner of the layout to the right to provide a squeeze through (15"?) between it and the closet it is going to make for a long duckunder (crawl under maybe). I think this move is possible without reducing operations too drastically.

Staging in that corner by the door is another problem.
 

Ramjet

New Member
Howdy, I'm a new member and am interested in creating a layout and have been reading a lot of posts. A comment that comes up often is the cost when you get into 'a lot' of turnouts and such. I have been playing around with XTrackCAD to 'try out' some different layouts and have noticed that under the MANAGE tab there is a PARTS LIST feature that summarizes the amount of items used in the layout. Looking at the complexity and size of your layout I would very much appreciate it if you would post your .xtc file so that I could get a feeling for the number of turnouts and track proposed in your layout. I like it very much and compliment you on your fine effort.

Cheers
 

skyliner

Well-Known Member
Hey, sorry I've been out of town for a few days for work.

I've been trying to attach the file, but for some reason the forums won't recognize an .xtc file. Hmm...lemme see if I can figure out how to do this.
 

Cjcrescent

Master Mechanic
The problem with alot of trackplans is they don't really have room for a double ended yard. We've all seen the plans with a double ended yard, is that they seem to wind up with 1 -3 tracks that are useless, due to their length.

A single ended yard offers so many more operational advantages, that I would always do my best to talk whomever I was designing for, to forget the idea of a double ended one. Many times, the capacity of the yard is increased dramatically, and the room not taken up by the end of the yard, will often allow for a turntable, and/or an engine fueling station. I'd rather have the single ended yard any day.
 

number9

Member
The problem with alot of trackplans is they don't really have room for a double ended yard. We've all seen the plans with a double ended yard, is that they seem to wind up with 1 -3 tracks that are useless, due to their length.

A single ended yard offers so many more operational advantages, that I would always do my best to talk whomever I was designing for, to forget the idea of a double ended one. Many times, the capacity of the yard is increased dramatically, and the room not taken up by the end of the yard, will often allow for a turntable, and/or an engine fueling station. I'd rather have the single ended yard any day.

I am a real newbie at this, however, I will note that I think Cjcrescent is totally correct about the double ended yard, and I have an example handy.

Here is an interation of a layout with a double ended yard.

Notice how many tracks are in the yard.

Here is the same yard with one end mostly removed and only two tracks are "double ended". Notice how much more track you can have, even if you only made the tracks go to the junction of the yard and the main, it is still far more track. Note as Cjcrescent points out how short the last few tracks are in the double ended yard. In most yards (unless it is huge) they end up being too short to be of much use.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
The only layouts that I have run on where a double ended yards has been needed are very large operations where 10-20 people are running. The double end is so that trains can be received, made, and broken up on both ends at the same time.
 




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