Would you buy Walthers Proto 1000/2000 locos?
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just classic i needed that laugh
I don't think that this is the situation at all. Many manufacturers have excellent customer support departments, and some do not. IIRC Walthers customer service has its ups and downs, and this could be one of it's down periods.
As to the second statement, trying to get us to change to another scale, is totally false. If they start making just pure junk, trying to get us to change scales, they'll find that they have no customers and will have to go out of business. There are too many manufacturers for a company to try that and remain viable. In my case I have enough trains to never be forced into another scale. Another thing goes back to the number of manufacturers, and that in order for us to be forced into another scale they would have to conspire among themselves to do this. I don't think that any manufacturer would risk cutting their own throats financially to do this.
We all vote with our wallets, and when I have a bad experience with a manufacturer, I just don't buy anything from them again. Or if its a company that I just don't like, they will not get a penny from me. Here's an example;
I refuse to buy anything from mth. There are 2 main reasons. One, I don't like their business ethics. I believe that they are underhanded and corrupt. Two, they've never made anything that I truly need. mth also has the attitude that since their digital system is superior to DCC, that simply because its better, they will do to HO what they did in O-gauge, and take over the scale control wise. We all know that didn't work and they have ever so slowly, been adding DCC compatibility to their locos. Trouble is as long as they keep trying to force DCS down our throats, the more customers they lose. One thing really funny here is, even if you want to use DCS, you can only get the decoders in a locomotive. Doesn't matter that you have 15, 20, or even 100 more locos that you want to keep, and run, you can't buy one of their decoders, and install it into your locos. They don't make and sell their decoders separately.
These are all early P-2000 GP9s. After tuning them up and detailing them they run better than all the other newer expensive stuff.
I have had good experiences with Walther's spares department last year. They sent me three sets of hail rails for some slags cars I got second hand. And they sent them for free. I really can't complain about service like that.
I agree with your views on MTH. I wouldn't touch on of their engines with a 10' pole.
Alan,
You truly are leading a blessed life.
All of my FA's, BL2's and GP9's have had their gears replaced. Some were replaced by Life-Like. When I needed more for the rest of my engines that failed, Walthers owned the company then and would not talk without a credit card number. Never mind the fact the warranty cards had been filled out and returned.
My PA's and E units have been OK. I also do a lot of repairs/upgrades for guys in the club. Its gotten to the point that I keep a spare bag of gears onhand.
For those of you keeping score, it's not just Proto where you will find cracked axle gears.
I recently picked up an old Stewart RS3 with the Athearn type drive. THAT even had 4 cracked axle gears!
Also the Lima/MRC Alco C420's are turning up with cracked gears. Athearn gears wont fix these, but the good folks at NWSL have a complete axle/wheel combo that will!
Plus the gears are brass and wont crack again!
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Life Like was having legal problems over its product lines having so many defects. THe drive mechanism thing almost killed them. So Walthers made a deal with the bankruptcy court to buy out all the proto lines and leave the original LIFELIKE brand and product lines in place.
This is why you can buy a starter train set in a LifeLike package just the same as was available for years, but also find the proto stuff BY Walthers.
Part of the arrangement to the court was the stipulation that all the drive mechanisms would be redesigned for any further production. Apparently this was done but I have seen people saying that the new ones just dont have the pulling power they used to.
Some of the proto stuff is magnificent although color issues have abounded from the start and is due to NO QUALITY CONTROL in China. I have seen 5-6 versions of Santa fe Red and at least 3 for Southern Sylvan Green.
Aside from that, especially the older stuff is pretty decent but you wont find parts so buy with that in mind.
This is why you can buy a starter train set in a LifeLike package just the same as was available for years, but also find the proto stuff BY Walthers.
Part of the arrangement to the court was the stipulation that all the drive mechanisms would be redesigned for any further production. Apparently this was done but I have seen people saying that the new ones just dont have the pulling power they used to.
Some of the proto stuff is magnificent although color issues have abounded from the start and is due to NO QUALITY CONTROL in China. I have seen 5-6 versions of Santa fe Red and at least 3 for Southern Sylvan Green.
Aside from that, especially the older stuff is pretty decent but you wont find parts so buy with that in mind.
railfan
junk collector
Thanks everyone for all the info on life-like. I was wondering if the cracked drive gear issue affected their N scale locomotives like the HO? Here is a set I almost bought. I'm very interested in trying some of these.........they look fantastic! These were retro-fitted with MTL couplers.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
I have one of the original "Gold" box P2k's, that I have owned since they were first released. These were the locos with the Athearn mechanism clones. When I started hearing about the cracked gear problems, I went ahead and bought a set of the Athearn gears to replace when the gears did crack. Those gears are still in a package hanging on my wall. If they ever do crack, I'm ready for it, and if they never crack I'm OK as well.
The loco is a very fine runner and is part of a permanent consist with an Atlas/Kato Rs-1. They work very well together.
The loco is a very fine runner and is part of a permanent consist with an Atlas/Kato Rs-1. They work very well together.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
I don't think those are gears. They look like the power pickup tabs. A blackening agent or even black paint would hide them well, as long as none got on the contact surfaces.
As to whether or not I'd buy any of the Proto series engines, the answer is yes. But since I don't do diesels as the main source of my railroad's power, the only way I'd get another one would be if someone gives me some.
As to whether or not I'd buy any of the Proto series engines, the answer is yes. But since I don't do diesels as the main source of my railroad's power, the only way I'd get another one would be if someone gives me some.
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Greg@mnrr
Section Hand
Forum:
I have many Proto 1000 and 2000, both Walther's and Life Like locos and have been very happy with their performance. Many of the models are new in the box and never been operated. Yes, finding spare parts is a factor, but like anything else, time goes on and items become harder to find.
If you have a favorite loco or two, no manner the brand, keep a eye open at hoppy shops and train show and buy a spare as a future source of parts.
Many parts are interchangeable, like hand rails, that can be used with a little painting to fit any of that particular loco model road name. Carried farther, look at motors, wheel sets and wheel frames that are interchangeable.
Thanks.
Greg
I have many Proto 1000 and 2000, both Walther's and Life Like locos and have been very happy with their performance. Many of the models are new in the box and never been operated. Yes, finding spare parts is a factor, but like anything else, time goes on and items become harder to find.
If you have a favorite loco or two, no manner the brand, keep a eye open at hoppy shops and train show and buy a spare as a future source of parts.
Many parts are interchangeable, like hand rails, that can be used with a little painting to fit any of that particular loco model road name. Carried farther, look at motors, wheel sets and wheel frames that are interchangeable.
Thanks.
Greg
Im not sure if this have been posted but i was about to purchase a New GP30 demo from the Proto line and a couple of friends hit me up and said there new GP30 that they use as mainline power have devlop cracked gears, So i guess its not over yet and as this have me thinking of my GP20 Demos i have now im going to start looking for parts again as i honest thought the problem was over
railfan
junk collector
Indeed if it were so, first I'd need ask an eskimo. Across the tundra I did trudge. But he refused to be the judge. Then I recalled a cat who spoke, in rhymes so great it made me choke. He was a friend of Doctor Seuss, who was the man who let him loose. If you think this is absurd, you've not yet met the elephant bird. No no no! said the cat in the hat, "I would not buy a locomoto.....from a place called Walthers Proto!"
Indeed if it were so, first I'd need ask an eskimo. Across the tundra I did trudge. But he refused to be the judge. Then I recalled a cat who spoke, in rhymes so great it made me choke. He was a friend of Doctor Seuss, who was the man who let him loose. If you think this is absurd, you've not yet met the elephant bird. No no no! said the cat in the hat, "I would not buy a locomoto.....from a place called Walthers Proto!"
just classic i needed that laugh
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
I've owned a few Protos over the years, and overall I've been quite pleased with them. I did a few things proactively to make them more reliable: (1) replaced all axel gears with Athearn; and (2) got rid of the complicated constant-light pc boards and hard-wired my decoders.
kbkchooch
Verified Human
I concur Ken!
I've got a bunch, FA's PA's, BL2's, GP9's and E-units. They all get stripped before going into service. Mechanisms are cleaned (even "new" ones)re-lubed and regreased, those troublesome gears get replaced, factory light boards tossed in the garbage (cuz they are!) and decoders hard wired. They have all performed so well that most of my BB Athearn engine have disappeared from the roster.
The only issue I've had really is the exhaust tips on my E7B have been disappearing slowly, so I have to make some from itty bitty plastic tubing.
I've got a bunch, FA's PA's, BL2's, GP9's and E-units. They all get stripped before going into service. Mechanisms are cleaned (even "new" ones)re-lubed and regreased, those troublesome gears get replaced, factory light boards tossed in the garbage (cuz they are!) and decoders hard wired. They have all performed so well that most of my BB Athearn engine have disappeared from the roster.
The only issue I've had really is the exhaust tips on my E7B have been disappearing slowly, so I have to make some from itty bitty plastic tubing.
The Proto 2000 GP20's i have been looking at my axles and i was wondering if i could replace the axles with one from athearn GP9's?
I havent heard so far any troubles with them but i know the recent release of the GP30's at least in the Demo versions the crack axles issuses has come back and Walthers is not really helping with the situation i know alot of LHS stores and online are selling the ones that were returned a cheaper price but is the hobby customer support from the manufacturers really gone or is it they trying to get us into the other scales since that is cheaper or need more support?
I havent heard so far any troubles with them but i know the recent release of the GP30's at least in the Demo versions the crack axles issuses has come back and Walthers is not really helping with the situation i know alot of LHS stores and online are selling the ones that were returned a cheaper price but is the hobby customer support from the manufacturers really gone or is it they trying to get us into the other scales since that is cheaper or need more support?
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Don't see any reason why not. I believe that Athearn basically uses the same gears on the axles on all their locos.
I don't think that this is the situation at all. Many manufacturers have excellent customer support departments, and some do not. IIRC Walthers customer service has its ups and downs, and this could be one of it's down periods.
As to the second statement, trying to get us to change to another scale, is totally false. If they start making just pure junk, trying to get us to change scales, they'll find that they have no customers and will have to go out of business. There are too many manufacturers for a company to try that and remain viable. In my case I have enough trains to never be forced into another scale. Another thing goes back to the number of manufacturers, and that in order for us to be forced into another scale they would have to conspire among themselves to do this. I don't think that any manufacturer would risk cutting their own throats financially to do this.
We all vote with our wallets, and when I have a bad experience with a manufacturer, I just don't buy anything from them again. Or if its a company that I just don't like, they will not get a penny from me. Here's an example;
I refuse to buy anything from mth. There are 2 main reasons. One, I don't like their business ethics. I believe that they are underhanded and corrupt. Two, they've never made anything that I truly need. mth also has the attitude that since their digital system is superior to DCC, that simply because its better, they will do to HO what they did in O-gauge, and take over the scale control wise. We all know that didn't work and they have ever so slowly, been adding DCC compatibility to their locos. Trouble is as long as they keep trying to force DCS down our throats, the more customers they lose. One thing really funny here is, even if you want to use DCS, you can only get the decoders in a locomotive. Doesn't matter that you have 15, 20, or even 100 more locos that you want to keep, and run, you can't buy one of their decoders, and install it into your locos. They don't make and sell their decoders separately.
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Careful! That GP-20 has the newer 14:1 Walthers gears in it. It will not acccept Athearn gearing. The tooth profile is different.
I have Proto locos all the way back to the original GP-18, SD-9, E8/9, PA-1, E6; E7, SW-9/1200, RS-27. One set of cracked gears on the GP-18. Walthers replaced free. No others, ever. All run very well. All factory light boards introduced to Mr. Trashcan, all decoders hardwired.
I have Proto locos all the way back to the original GP-18, SD-9, E8/9, PA-1, E6; E7, SW-9/1200, RS-27. One set of cracked gears on the GP-18. Walthers replaced free. No others, ever. All run very well. All factory light boards introduced to Mr. Trashcan, all decoders hardwired.
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Charles Smiley
cspmovies
These are all early P-2000 GP9s. After tuning them up and detailing them they run better than all the other newer expensive stuff.
PaulB
Member
I have had good experiences with Walther's spares department last year. They sent me three sets of hail rails for some slags cars I got second hand. And they sent them for free. I really can't complain about service like that.
I agree with your views on MTH. I wouldn't touch on of their engines with a 10' pole.
kbkchooch
Verified Human
Alan,
You truly are leading a blessed life.
All of my FA's, BL2's and GP9's have had their gears replaced. Some were replaced by Life-Like. When I needed more for the rest of my engines that failed, Walthers owned the company then and would not talk without a credit card number. Never mind the fact the warranty cards had been filled out and returned.
My PA's and E units have been OK. I also do a lot of repairs/upgrades for guys in the club. Its gotten to the point that I keep a spare bag of gears onhand.
For those of you keeping score, it's not just Proto where you will find cracked axle gears.
I recently picked up an old Stewart RS3 with the Athearn type drive. THAT even had 4 cracked axle gears!
Also the Lima/MRC Alco C420's are turning up with cracked gears. Athearn gears wont fix these, but the good folks at NWSL have a complete axle/wheel combo that will!
Plus the gears are brass and wont crack again!I have heard that the Proto problem was primarily with four axle units like the BL-2's and the GP's, plus a few E units that got fitted with 42" wheels. Cracked gears have also been reported on some BLI models including steam engines.
Karl you must have gone to Walthers late in the game. I have contacts there and I got several sets for free (not related to the contacts) They finally quit giving them away after they gave away about twice as many necessary to refit every locomotive they ever made!
The big problem here is that engineering plastic shrinks with age. The problem is worse with shelf queens for some reason. One of my other hobbies, collecting vintage diecast sees something similar. I have some 1960's vintage Matchbox "King Size" models. most of these were fitted with engineering plastic hubs and rubber tires. Many surviving examples are missing their tires because the hubs shrank as they aged and the tires fell off and were lost. I have a few mint in the box examples where the tires will fall off if you handle the model. On our locomotives, the axles will cause the gears to crack as they can't shrink. On newer models, the only remedy is to adjust the press fit tolerances.
Karl you must have gone to Walthers late in the game. I have contacts there and I got several sets for free (not related to the contacts) They finally quit giving them away after they gave away about twice as many necessary to refit every locomotive they ever made!
The big problem here is that engineering plastic shrinks with age. The problem is worse with shelf queens for some reason. One of my other hobbies, collecting vintage diecast sees something similar. I have some 1960's vintage Matchbox "King Size" models. most of these were fitted with engineering plastic hubs and rubber tires. Many surviving examples are missing their tires because the hubs shrank as they aged and the tires fell off and were lost. I have a few mint in the box examples where the tires will fall off if you handle the model. On our locomotives, the axles will cause the gears to crack as they can't shrink. On newer models, the only remedy is to adjust the press fit tolerances.
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