Would you buy Walthers Proto 1000/2000 locos?

[steveL&N]

The scale issue is this: SINCE HO IS BY FAR THE MOST POPULAR all stocks of products from the former well loved and now defunct brands: Rivarossi/ConCor/IHC, LifeLike Proto, & ATHEARN original: and all the newer replacement stuff is below expectations on all levels.......

BUT ON THE OTHER SCALES, large stocks of products remain and so YES I personally feel they are trying to save face as well as PUSH OFF THE deadline of the model RR D day as far a HO is concerned.

As far as the axles, I have seen this done and heard many guys talk about it, so yes its a thing you should be able to do.

How I would manage it (as far as my layout engines were managed), would be to swap out on both engines. IN OTHER WORDS: take say a not used or dummy Athearn and put the axles into the Proto, but also take the weaker Proto ones and put them onto the Athearn.

That way as a backup, dummy, or scenery engine the bad axles wont matter and actually would be perfect in a shop scene with that engine marked up as BAD ORDER; AXLES. Very prototypical all the way round with this approach and in real life was like replacing Alco 244 power plants with the weak crankshafts with EMD 567s.

Its gettin like MODEL RAILROADING IS MORE AND MORE PROTOTYPE EVER SINGLE DAY.

 

[kbkchooch]

The scale issue is this: SINCE HO IS BY FAR THE MOST POPULAR all stocks of products from the former well loved and now defunct brands: Rivarossi/ConCor/IHC, LifeLike Proto, & ATHEARN original: and all the newer replacement stuff is below expectations on all levels.......

BUT ON THE OTHER SCALES, large stocks of products remain and so YES I personally feel they are trying to save face as well as PUSH OFF THE deadline of the model RR D day as far a HO is concerned.

As far as the axles, I have seen this done and heard many guys talk about it, so yes its a thing you should be able to do.

How I would manage it (as far as my layout engines were managed), would be to swap out on both engines. IN OTHER WORDS: take say a not used or dummy Athearn and put the axles into the Proto, but also take the weaker Proto ones and put them onto the Athearn.

That way as a backup, dummy, or scenery engine the bad axles wont matter and actually would be perfect in a shop scene with that engine marked up as BAD ORDER; AXLES. Very prototypical all the way round with this approach and in real life was like replacing Alco 244 power plants with the weak crankshafts with EMD 567s.

Its gettin like MODEL RAILROADING IS MORE AND MORE PROTOTYPE EVER SINGLE DAY.

Steve
All the replacement stuff is below expectations?? Do you want to bring back open frame motors? Rivarossi "pizza cutter" flanges? Con cor had some nice engines,,,,they were just reworked early Atlas with inferior motors. Not to mention the beloved old Athearn with the old Jet motors that would draw darn near an amp of power and sound like an electric chain saw with a dull blade? Oh, and the joy of replacing the rubber band drives!! And let us not forget they all were fully detailed, if you count molded on grabs, handrails and other details now available as standard on a lot RTR stuff. Nope, the "good old days" were not any better. The original Protos did have a gear issue, but instead of going through all you suggest, I'd rather just install new gears and be done with it.
The real railroads don't have dummy units, (except for cab control cars)why should I?

 

[Sirfoldalot]

Steve
All the replacement stuff is below expectations?? Do you want to bring back open frame motors? Rivarossi "pizza cutter" flanges? Con cor had some nice engines,,,,they were just reworked early Atlas with inferior motors. Not to mention the beloved old Athearn with the old Jet motors that would draw darn near an amp of power and sound like an electric chain saw with a dull blade? Oh, and the joy of replacing the rubber band drives!! And let us not forget they all were fully detailed, if you count molded on grabs, handrails and other details now available as standard on a lot RTR stuff. Nope, the "good old days" were not any better. The original Protos did have a gear issue, but instead of going through all you suggest, I'd rather just install new gears and be done with it.
The real railroads don't have dummy units, (except for cab control cars)why should I?

Karl ... You hit the nail on the head for sure.
With the external detail today .. I can live with a few broken axels and gears.

 

[steveL&N]

Thats not what I'm saying. The post I was referring to and we've been batting this around for awhile is that suddenly with the market basically cornered by a very few manufacturers that THEIR quality is down and BELOW WHAT THOSE LINES WERE as far as expectations.

Originally the Proto stuff was good except for the drive train issues and everyone just swapped out for the athearn ones and all was fine. NOW IT SEEMS Walthers has finagled some crappy deal and thats not doable anymore, and yes that is BELOW MOST PEOPLES EXPECTATIONS.

BY THE WAY, dont tell me real roads didnt have bad gearing issues. SEVERAL MAJOR LOCOMOTIVES in the early years were plagued with that type of issue and even now with the newer power management systems matching that up with the right balance of wheel size and gearing is all a matter of advanced science. Its why the GE 6000 hp units were all down graded. Wake up dude and smell the creosote will ya?

 

[kbkchooch]

Thats not what I'm saying. The post I was referring to and we've been batting this around for awhile is that suddenly with the market basically cornered by a very few manufacturers that THEIR quality is down and BELOW WHAT THOSE LINES WERE as far as expectations.

I might be inclined to agree with you there, just because my best runners are from Kato, Intermountain, and Atlas. The Protos and my Walthers FA's are OK, but still not in the same league as the others.

Originally the Proto stuff was good except for the drive train issues and everyone just swapped out for the athearn ones and all was fine. NOW IT SEEMS Walthers has finagled some crappy deal and thats not doable anymore, and yes that is BELOW MOST PEOPLES EXPECTATIONS.

Crappy deal? They've paid for twice as many axle gears than Life-Like ever produced. Whats the crappy deal, enlighten me please.

BY THE WAY, dont tell me real roads didnt have bad gearing issues. SEVERAL MAJOR LOCOMOTIVES in the early years were plagued with that type of issue and even now with the newer power management systems matching that up with the right balance of wheel size and gearing is all a matter of advanced science. Its why the GE 6000 hp units were all down graded. Wake up dude and smell the creosote will ya?

I didn't say anything about that. I was referring to you proposition that I need dummy engines to swap gears with. I simply said the real railroads don't have dummy locos (except for cab control cars) Why then should I?
My nose also is just fine, but considering your overuse of capitol letters, I would surmise yours is a little out of joint?

 

[Charles Smiley]

All I know is that everything I bought from 1970 to around 2000 ran like trash. Plastic and brass both. It all needed extreme reworking. Only half the wheels were used for power pickup on even all my 70s era brass steam diesel and traction models. All the old bluebox Athearn locos had gears for a top speed of 200-mph and crappy bent pieces of rusty metal to make electrical contact when you pivoted the trucks...

It was all TRASH until Lifelike P-2000 and other similar new stuff came along. I threw all that junk power away (even though it was all detailed) and started over 5 years ago -- except for my SN traction collection I reworked with new power mechanisims. At least all my freight/passenger cars were good because I made them mostly from scratch back then. The hobby is way better now.

 

[steveL&N]

Dude I have a mother in the hospital now for 2 weeks and I'm tired, Then I see a nonsense post from you that was way out of bounds from 1) what I was saying and 2) what the entire thread was about.

Got thaT? ROLLEYES..................

ENJOY LIFE OK? No one is angry over this, its just a misread of the thread.

 

[steveL&N]

ok guys this has been a great thread but I have issues dealing with my elderly mom and will have to bow out from this for the time being. Its been alot of interesting exchanges, THANKS! Should be back soon once she is home from hospital and settled. Dont be surprised then if I am not responding to comments made to me under the circumstances. See you guys soon. -steve

 

[Iron Horseman]

The scale issue is this: SINCE HO IS BY FAR THE MOST POPULAR all stocks of products from the former well loved and now defunct brands: Rivarossi/ConCor/IHC, LifeLike Proto, & ATHEARN original: and all the newer replacement stuff is below expectations on all levels.......

Well Loved?!? Hmmmm the Rivarossi passenger cars that required at least 2 hours of work out of the box to get to run 1/2 way decent. IHC were even worse. They wouldn't even run down straight track without listing to one side or the other. ConCor only became an option when they purchased Atlas's old tooling. The first LifeLike Protos were nothing more than a knock off of the Athearn Blue Box, but definitely the best of the ones listed. The original Athearn meat grinders or super sonic HiFi I keep only in my collection for "collectors" value. I can't say any of the items in the list were well loved either now or at the time they were new.

 

[Iron Horseman]

ok guys this has been a great thread but I have issues dealing with my elderly mom

Bummer, I hope it is nothing serious. I started that about 18 months ago with my father with multiple issues. The hardest was getting him used to the fact that he could not drive anymore. We went through home care, assisted living, hospital, rehab, assisted living, nursing home, Alzheimer care unit, and finally hospice. It did consume lots of time.

 

[RCShadow]

Bummer, I hope it is nothing serious. I started that about 18 months ago with my father with multiple issues. The hardest was getting him used to the fact that he could not drive anymore. We went through home care, assisted living, hospital, rehab, assisted living, nursing home, Alzheimer care unit, and finally hospice. It did consume lots of time.

I feel for you both. I went through all that in 2008 with my late father. It is a difficult process that I guess we all have to face with our folks. We will be there one day as well but the void of a parent being gone is never completely the same. It sucks and we all deal with it in differant ways and as best we can. Lashing out at loved ones, people in passing at work, and yes, online I suppose are some of the ways we cope with it.

 

[kbkchooch]

Bummer, I hope it is nothing serious. I started that about 18 months ago with my father with multiple issues. The hardest was getting him used to the fact that he could not drive anymore. We went through home care, assisted living, hospital, rehab, assisted living, nursing home, Alzheimer care unit, and finally hospice. It did consume lots of time.

I went through the same process in 2010 with my Dad. I can relate. I hope that its not serious also Steve, but if it is forget the trains and the banter, take care of Mom 1st. The rest can wait.