Would you buy Walthers Proto 1000/2000 locos?

[CoolRuehle]

I bought a few Proto 1000 series locomotives from Walthers, I like the smooth running, quiet operation, but now it comes time to buy spare parts, particularly a new cab that I broke by accident.

I emailed Walthers, and as always received a prompt reply. But I was told there are no spares for these locos. The solution would be to buy an extra loco of the same type and cannibalize it over time. Not a good answer in my book. I checked eBay, and you cannot even get a SHELL for any of the Proto 1000 stuff.

I also have an older FM H10-44 from Walthers, also in the same boat, no spares.

I have an Atlas H600/H660 was in a box that was blown off of my vehicle and smashed on the ground. I was able to get parts from Atlas.

Same with Athearn, parts are available. It looks as if Bachmann has parts available, although I never have needed to order any.

Will I ever buy another Walthers locomotive? Probably not. Anyone else in the same situation?

Anything that any of you can offer to counter this resolution of mine to NOT buy Walthers locos?

I had a similar situation with a Trumpeter brand plastic model. The only N. American importer (Stevens International) had no spares available, as these kits are mfg's in China. After 7 months of badgering, they finally sent a replacement part, but this was only after several phone calls and numerous email messages, including an email to Trumpeter themselves complaining about the lack of customer service at Stevens Int'l.

 

[trailrider]

I hate to badmouth a product based on my own limited personal experience. However, I've had quite a bit of trouble with the four Proto2000 E6's and E8/9mostly with the wheel/axle/gear assemblies, resulting in derailments that would cause shorts that killed the decoders and sound modules. As a result, I had to have them repaired by an expert in Northern Colorado. He had a deuce of a time finding parts, even from Walthers, and the resultant cost came to about the same as buying new ones! As my ruling curves are 20-inch radius, I will probably stick with F's and FP7A's. I do have one of Walther's Proto2000 E6's (can't get parts for them either, from what I hear) that I modified to a Burlington E5 by adding corregated siding. It runs okay, and hopefully it will hold up. If not, I will probably be using some old Athearn F7's that are DC. I like the QSL sound in the Protos, but my old Athearns run just as well or better on DC.

 

[bgoatsw]

I have not tried to get replacement parts yet, but I think walthers prices have gotten way to high. there prices have seemed to skyrocketed in the past couple years. G

 

[Espeefan]

The problem is you guys don't know how the spare parts situation works. It works like this, at Walthers and other places:

You buy so many models from your Chinese source. They don't make any spares. That part of our hobby is history. As the models are sold, you get a warranty complaint or two (or ten). A few unsold models are sacrificed for parts. When the models sell out and there are no more "shelf queen" donors, you're SOL. Had the same problem with a Kato NW-2 that took an unscheduled trip to the floor some time back. No parts available. Crap happens! Try getting a BLI steamer fixed. You will wait months at least. I've seen it happen to others.

That being said I would buy Proto 1000 locos. I own several and have not had any trouble with them. Good solid runners with a nice drive.

 

[HF1]

Prices are going up with everybody - can we all agree.

It's a given.

As for the Proto 1000, I have a few of the PRR F/M Erie-Builts and C-Liners. They perfrom flawlessly and I'm very pleased with them.
Getting parts for older models is a common and understood issue.
Everything in the hobby, product-wise, is of a limited production nature and therefore, if you want spare parts, the only real way of assuring availability is to have a few extra models for parts-it is what it is.
Most Manufacturers are not going to go to the expense of stocking, cataloging and maintaining an inventory of parts.
Most manufacturers that do stock any parts are because the factor it into production runs and costs.
Athearn and Kato, are two that come to mind.

If I ever need parts for these Protos I have (and I doubt it becasue the models will probably outlast me), I will be able to easily find these models at train shows at very resonable costs.

The only other way of hedging this is to request additional parts when the models first come on the market - you may get a few extras of thing you want.

Another example would be parts for the Stewart F3's, which haven't been made for years now. You want parts, you have to cannabalize another one.
That's the way it is.

 

[Iron Horseman]

It is a pitty too since Life-Like was so good about keeping and supplying spare parts.

 

[Y3a]

It's sad that the right solution was how Bowser ran things, with interchangeable parts, many standard screws etc and several aftermarket manufacturers made motors and gearbox replacements, and thanks to the brass details folks you could customize your models. They also pulled a ton, and articulated correctly, not like all the poorly conceived BLI, Lifelike, Rivarossi style articulation that has been around since the late 1950's! I miss Athearn's BB locos for the same reason.

This gets into another area of modelers or 'buyer hobbiests'. Because I make some of my own rolling stock from molds from my own patterns, modify steam loco's to match my era, and scratchbuild structures when kits aren't made, I would be a modeler.

The 'Buyer hobbiest' doesn't build anything, just takes the finished model out of the box and put in the track, unboxes structures, and places them next to his sectional EZtrack. Somehow it just isn't John Allen model railroading.

 

[NYW&B]

The situation is precisely as Espeefan says and it's a situation that hobbyists brought upon themselves in recent years, so there is no point in complaining. We have met the enemy and he is US.

Over the past decade non-prototype specific, but hobbyist modifiable, models that had been offered on a virtually continuous basis with endless replacement parts available and at reasonable prices became not good enough for the crop of new hobbyists that arose. This segment of the hobby demanded ultra-detailed, absolutely prototype specific, RTR models, naturally at ever increasing prices.

Well, you guys got what you wanted: extremely limited runs of models with no model-to-model interchangeable parts and no supply of replacement parts at all. An increasing number of the manufacturers (soon to become all) consider this their best answer to the demand and regard their latest models as simply disposable items. Indeed, their view is if your model fails during use, go out and buy another one.

Face it, many of you guys asked for this situation and you got it. It's the rest of us old-school hobbyists that have really suffered.

NYW&B

 

[montanan]

My only proto 1000 is their RDC that I have had since they first came out years ago, and with the exception of being a bit on the noisy side, I am very happy with it. On a recent trip I visited a club layout and they had a number of proto 1000 and 2000 locomotives running and they seemed to be quite happy with them. I am pretty well set for locomotives right now but would definitely consider one if the right unit came on the market.

 

[h44]

proto 1000

i have 2 of their gp-15 very happy with them and i got off ebay at 40.0 a piece, fortunately i have been in the hobby for 30 yrs and have not had an engine drop to the floor
ty
mark

 

[Espeefan]

This gets into another area of modelers or 'buyer hobbiests'. Because I make some of my own rolling stock from molds from my own patterns, modify steam loco's to match my era, and scratchbuild structures when kits aren't made, I would be a modeler.

The 'Buyer hobbiest' doesn't build anything, just takes the finished model out of the box and put in the track, unboxes structures, and places them next to his sectional EZtrack. Somehow it just isn't John Allen model railroading.

With respect, let's not subdivide ourselves into little groups and say these folks aren't "real modelers" and these folks are. At some point we all buy something RTR and plunk it on the track, maybe with just a little weathering. I build craftsman kits, customize brass, handlay track, superdetail BB locos and have scratched a few items. I also have bought some nice (though expensive) models that I used as delivered with no or minimal modification. We are all "the market". I don't care if a guy buys a model and never takes it out of the box, or if he bashes it and takes first place at the National. He bought one. He counts. We need those folks, as they expand the market and hold down unit costs. Some will develop their skills, some won't. It's their hobby to enjoy as they choose. The more of us the better.

 

[Iron Horseman]

Will I ever buy another Walthers locomotive? Probably not. Anyone else in the same situation?

I guess I didn't answer this part of the question. I have many Proto-2000 and Proto-1000 locomotives from both Life-Like and Walthers. If I don't buy anymore it will be because of the ridiculous prices Walthers is trying to get for them, not because of a spare part shortage. Of course, I still pick them up regularly second hand for $20-$30 at swap meets and train shows.

To the other conversation about limited runs.... I just spoke to a person who works at Intermountain Railway (just up the road from me) the other day. He said they have discovered there is a huge market for non-prototypically painted equipment. Up until now they have been very careful to be 100% accurate. For some reason they painted a car in a non-prototype scheme and it sold better than the prototype ones did. So I would expect more variations in Intermountian Railway equipment in the near future.

 

[Doughless]

Up until now they have been very careful to be 100% accurate. For some reason they painted a car in a non-prototype scheme and it sold better than the prototype ones did. So I would expect more variations in Intermountian Railway equipment in the near future.

They were probably reading the Atlas forum too much.

I think in the end, model railroading is a highly visually rewarding hobby and if a paint scheme makes a model look good, or is a popular road name, but not necessarily accurate, it will still sell decently.

To the OP: I have never thought about not buying a product based upon the lack of spare parts. Not that I'm discounting that approach, I just never considered it.

I have many P2K's, but they are all of the type and vintage that have interchangeable parts with each other or with athearns. I would be interested to know if the recent reruns of the SD9, SW9, and GP20, have the same innards as the originally designed 1990's runs. If so, you can find parts donors on ebay occaisionally. Having said that, I don't think I've encountered a situation where I've needed spare parts. Because of this, I would buy them again if the price was right.

 

[Charles Smiley]

I like finding original Life-Like P2K locos at bargain prices. They run very well once you replace the cracked axles. The cracked axles are why I find them so cheap. If I can get a low price, I can detail and paint them myself. And even if I botch the thing up, it doesn't bother me. It goes in the bone-box as a future parts donor.

If I pay 250 bucks for a Walthers P2K I don't take risks like that. So the hobby is still fun and rewarding for us "old-school" guys by refreshing old Life-Like stuff. And it actually can look better that the new ones if you take your time.

Oh! and the best part is -- you don't have to get on "pre-order" lists that seem to outlast your enthusiasm by about 12-months.

 

[montanan]

I guess I didn't answer this part of the question. I have many Proto-2000 and Proto-1000 locomotives from both Life-Like and Walthers. If I don't buy anymore it will be because of the ridiculous prices Walthers is trying to get for them, not because of a spare part shortage. Of course, I still pick them up regularly second hand for $20-$30 at swap meets and train shows.

To the other conversation about limited runs.... I just spoke to a person who works at Intermountain Railway (just up the road from me) the other day. He said they have discovered there is a huge market for non-prototypically painted equipment. Up until now they have been very careful to be 100% accurate. For some reason they painted a car in a non-prototype scheme and it sold better than the prototype ones did. So I would expect more variations in Intermountian Railway equipment in the near future.

I'll agree with the high prices. A few years back I picked up a little 2-8-0, which at the time had a reasonable price. Inow see the same locomotive being offered only with DCC and the price is way above anything I would consider. It's a great running little loco, but for the prices they are wanting, I'll not be buying unless I can find one on the internet way cheaper.

 

[Midnught Special]

I personially buy things that are "non-prototypical" (think off colored cars or cars that are painted in one road scheme and labled for another) the "odd balls" if you will since I enjoy the free lance/prototypical/make it my way "what if" type thing....

heck If i could id see if a MFG would do a scheme just for my freelance RR (if i had the money) just so i coulf get some nice professional engines...

 

[Hergy]

If you think it's tough trying to find spare parts for P2K etc. try finding parts for brass. For 50 years or so I was very heavy into brass locos. All you got with your loco was a little bag of screws. If you dropped one of these and put a dent in it you fixed it as best you could because there were no spare cabs or cylinders etc. laying around. Good news is it got me into scratch building with brass.

 

[Charles Smiley]

Agreed Hergy! And it got me into putting machined down P2K chassis under good looking and very durable brass shells. I also like Hollywood Foundry's custom power trucks for difficult projects.

 

[Hergy]

Charles, thanks for the tip on Hollywood Foundry. Interesting stuff. Hadn't seen this before.

 

[riogrande]

They were probably reading the Atlas forum too much.

Oh holier than thou eh? Lets be real here, there are pontificating people everywhere and no forum has a monopoly on wonderful people. Seems like you just lowered yourself to "their" level. Gratz.

I bought a few Proto 1000 series locomotives from Walthers, I like the smooth running, quiet operation, but now it comes time to buy spare parts, particularly a new cab that I broke by accident.

I emailed Walthers, and as always received a prompt reply. But I was told there are no spares for these locos. The solution would be to buy an extra loco of the same type and cannibalize it over time. Not a good answer in my book. I checked eBay, and you cannot even get a SHELL for any of the Proto 1000 stuff.

Will I ever buy another Walthers locomotive? Probably not. Anyone else in the same situation?

If you deny yourself buying anymore Walthers locomotives for the above reason, you are only limiting yourself since most other companies are in the same boat - spart parts are limited because most everyone is having their models made in China just like Walthers - so you might as well not buy any more Atlas or Athearn, etc either.