Snowman
Well-Known Member
If you have priced out the cost of today's favorite scenery material--stacked foam building board--you'll likely be happier with the cost of the ties. Just sayin'.
What are you buying this Month?
- Thread starter wombat457
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Doing metal is another story. Any metal that is shiny can cause grief. Galvi, phosphor/bronze and some others that do not have a high reflectability can be cut easier. The CO2 laser is in a box with lid which contains any part of the beam that happens to reflect. The little guy I just got is a UV laser which is close to the blue light spectrum. Hence no box/lid protection. Have eyeball protection for both anyway. They state that it can cut stainless steel of which I am not interested. Copper for circuit boards would probably work although that might not be a good idea as I would have no way to do 'clad through' on the holes and soldering both sides isn't something that I want to do; getting etched and clad-through boards are pretty cheap anyway, just takes time.
Beam shaping: I need to look into more to get the gist of it. Since beam spread is controlled by the manufacturing process there is a focus process. The CO2 laser is better at this because the beam collimation is handled inside the tube. Pin diode has a concave lens on the output that squeezes the beam to a focal point. Neither are perfect unless you have really deep pockets. So far, with the pin diode, it looks like an 'hour glass' is cut through the material. Beam diameter at focus is 0.06mm ( 0.0023in ) which should be in the center of the material with the top entry and bottom exit holes slightly bigger. So the end result is holes can be pretty tiny of which the diameter depends on the X-Y resolution.
The CO2 laser is a vacuum tube about 28" in length and needs to be water cooled. The UV laser is a pin diode that might get hot to the touch. A little cool down time would be best for both between cuts though. CO2 price vs UV price is a no-brainer. CO2 is upwards of $350, where as the UV is $60ish. CO2 laser looses capability just sitting doing nothing as there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum, something to deal with. UV laser is rated at 20,000 hours although I don't necessarily believe that.
And since I seem to be wording words as Troy puts it. A MRR is different from the 1:1 as we need to hold down the rail AND keep it in gauge where as the 1:1 is for gauge only. My first though was to drill holes in each tie because sometimes it is impossible to push a spike through a tie and not split it; even with a Kaydee spiker. Boy, I have not even seen one of those lately. Then I decided that having holes on each tie might not look good. So I will do a separate cut with holes in ties and insert one of them every *TBD* ties or so. Switch frog and point ties probably need holes in all ties.
In the kit they sent, I have a 7/16" softwood square, and an about 1/8" plywood veneer for test subjects. No plastic or metal, so I will have to roll my own for that.
If everything shapes up to what I think it will, this looks to be a fun machine. Note that the Wife is really eyeballing this as it seems she has an agenda.
Later
Thanks for your comments, Hutch.
When I planned my layout I began researching what trains actually ran in the area (and why) I modelled. Surprising results turned up allowing unusual rolling stock to be required. All true to life. Great fun.
David
[* all possible sexual joking aside]
With regard to vibration, that is a factor I had not considered at all. I suppose once you've seen one in operation, thoughts like these would finally occur to you (me, in this case). The purpose of the vacuum might also be to hold a very thin material in place, which might otherwise droop simply due to gravity alone. Being a N-scaler these days, I tend to think in terms of very thin materials, fine diameter wires, thin paint skins, and fine particle and grain sizes. All of a piece, I guess.
Will post picture in the RPO when they arrive.
You did not specifically ask about Ties, but that is my current number crunch. Most MRR ties are 2.5mm x 2mm ( width x height ) although I suppose that it can vary a bit. Your basswood is: 1/16 or 1.59mm/0.0625" and the height I am gonna cut is 2mm/0.078". I don't see a problem with either of those thicknesses. In any event, if it will not cut with one pass, will just do another which should take care of it. I have not tried 2 ( or more ) passes yet so I don't know if hoop jumping is in order or not.
I think if I were to get another, I would throw a few more dollars at it and get one with a little more power and the 'air assist'. Power is added by stacking 2 ( or more ) of the laser diodes inside the laser head. The air assist blows cut material away from the laser focal point which allows a faster head speed with less smoke and somewhat less power. I am looking to upgrade this one ... time will tell.
Hope this helps.
Later
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Snowman
Well-Known Member
@c
Second, and I discovered this reading the "feature" list of one mfg's offerings. Can't tell you which one though, except that the cost of the base unit, with a smallish print bed (although big enough for model railroading I think too) was around $1,300 US. I also want to say the pixel size was 0.08".
Anyhow, that particular feature is a vacuum/suction which can hold the material--particularly so if it's thin--up against the bottom side of the roller bed--this unit's laser head cuts downward or engraves from up above. It seems to me this would really help improve the precision of the pixel sizes, which might matter if you plan to engrave anything...like printed circuit boards, or "pad printing cliches." Probably won't matter if you are only cutting ties, or even other scale building wood, unless you plan to take a micrometer to the cut results.
I've asked a couple of guys--users--about the hole sizes they can drill too with laser cutters, but haven't heard anything back yet. But just imagine how quickly you could do that, vs. using the classic pin vise, and easily breakable drill bits.
Which brings to mind an old joke: "The wire company" just drew out the finest, thinnest size wire they had ever produced. AWG60 or so. So they proudly sent a sample as a throw-down boast to their closest competitor in the business.
That competitor sent the sample back....with a hole drilled through it.
A couple of thoughts where laser cutters are concerned, and those I discovered only with more than a bit of research and reading reviews: One thing to be aware of is when cutting metal. The laser can, depending on the angle with which it approaches the material to be cut, reflect back onto the laser source itself. It will do some damage if it does so, and it's something you will want to keep in mind.
Second, and I discovered this reading the "feature" list of one mfg's offerings. Can't tell you which one though, except that the cost of the base unit, with a smallish print bed (although big enough for model railroading I think too) was around $1,300 US. I also want to say the pixel size was 0.08".
Anyhow, that particular feature is a vacuum/suction which can hold the material--particularly so if it's thin--up against the bottom side of the roller bed--this unit's laser head cuts downward or engraves from up above. It seems to me this would really help improve the precision of the pixel sizes, which might matter if you plan to engrave anything...like printed circuit boards, or "pad printing cliches." Probably won't matter if you are only cutting ties, or even other scale building wood, unless you plan to take a micrometer to the cut results.
I've asked a couple of guys--users--about the hole sizes they can drill too with laser cutters, but haven't heard anything back yet. But just imagine how quickly you could do that, vs. using the classic pin vise, and easily breakable drill bits.
Which brings to mind an old joke: "The wire company" just drew out the finest, thinnest size wire they had ever produced. AWG60 or so. So they proudly sent a sample as a throw-down boast to their closest competitor in the business.
That competitor sent the sample back....with a hole drilled through it.
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Snowman: A vacuum base looks to be a good idea although since nothing moves except the laser head on the X-Y beams there should not be any movement of the material. I do wonder about vibration. That can probably be handled by physically attaching the bottom base to the top carriage. Then if there IS vibration, the whole thing would vibrate as one unit. The flatness of the wood I will be cutting is handled either by me with my planer, or by whatever vendor I get it from. I have found 6" wide soft pine at a couple of local manufactures ( cabinets, and wood box builders ) for cheap ( free ) that can be thinned with a planer. Basswood comes from many vendors at many thicknesses - it just depends on price/time for those. Sugar Pine is spendy and is probably the best stuff for ties; YMMV.@c
A couple of thoughts where laser cutters are concerned, and those I discovered only with more than a bit of research and reading reviews: One thing to be aware of is when cutting metal. The laser can, depending on the angle with which it approaches the material to be cut, reflect back onto the laser source itself. It will do some damage if it does so, and it's something you will want to keep in mind.
Second, and I discovered this reading the "feature" list of one mfg's offerings. Can't tell you which one though, except that the cost of the base unit, with a smallish print bed (although big enough for model railroading I think too) was around $1,300 US. I also want to say the pixel size was 0.08".
Anyhow, that particular feature is a vacuum/suction which can hold the material--particularly so if it's thin--up against the bottom side of the roller bed--this unit's laser head cuts downward or engraves from up above. It seems to me this would really help improve the precision of the pixel sizes, which might matter if you plan to engrave anything...like printed circuit boards, or "pad printing cliches." Probably won't matter if you are only cutting ties, or even other scale building wood, unless you plan to take a micrometer to the cut results.
I've asked a couple of guys--users--about the hole sizes they can drill too with laser cutters, but haven't heard anything back yet. But just imagine how quickly you could do that, vs. using the classic pin vise, and easily breakable drill bits.
Which brings to mind an old joke: "The wire company" just drew out the finest, thinnest size wire they had ever produced. AWG60 or so. So they proudly sent a sample as a throw-down boast to their closest competitor in the business.
That competitor sent the sample back....with a hole drilled through it.
Doing metal is another story. Any metal that is shiny can cause grief. Galvi, phosphor/bronze and some others that do not have a high reflectability can be cut easier. The CO2 laser is in a box with lid which contains any part of the beam that happens to reflect. The little guy I just got is a UV laser which is close to the blue light spectrum. Hence no box/lid protection. Have eyeball protection for both anyway. They state that it can cut stainless steel of which I am not interested. Copper for circuit boards would probably work although that might not be a good idea as I would have no way to do 'clad through' on the holes and soldering both sides isn't something that I want to do; getting etched and clad-through boards are pretty cheap anyway, just takes time.
Beam shaping: I need to look into more to get the gist of it. Since beam spread is controlled by the manufacturing process there is a focus process. The CO2 laser is better at this because the beam collimation is handled inside the tube. Pin diode has a concave lens on the output that squeezes the beam to a focal point. Neither are perfect unless you have really deep pockets. So far, with the pin diode, it looks like an 'hour glass' is cut through the material. Beam diameter at focus is 0.06mm ( 0.0023in ) which should be in the center of the material with the top entry and bottom exit holes slightly bigger. So the end result is holes can be pretty tiny of which the diameter depends on the X-Y resolution.
The CO2 laser is a vacuum tube about 28" in length and needs to be water cooled. The UV laser is a pin diode that might get hot to the touch. A little cool down time would be best for both between cuts though. CO2 price vs UV price is a no-brainer. CO2 is upwards of $350, where as the UV is $60ish. CO2 laser looses capability just sitting doing nothing as there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum, something to deal with. UV laser is rated at 20,000 hours although I don't necessarily believe that.
And since I seem to be wording words as Troy puts it. A MRR is different from the 1:1 as we need to hold down the rail AND keep it in gauge where as the 1:1 is for gauge only. My first though was to drill holes in each tie because sometimes it is impossible to push a spike through a tie and not split it; even with a Kaydee spiker. Boy, I have not even seen one of those lately. Then I decided that having holes on each tie might not look good. So I will do a separate cut with holes in ties and insert one of them every *TBD* ties or so. Switch frog and point ties probably need holes in all ties.
In the kit they sent, I have a 7/16" softwood square, and an about 1/8" plywood veneer for test subjects. No plastic or metal, so I will have to roll my own for that.
If everything shapes up to what I think it will, this looks to be a fun machine. Note that the Wife is really eyeballing this as it seems she has an agenda.
Later
Last edited:
BigGRacing
Aka. Gary Russell
Bought my 5 risers last week to start on one of my other goals for the year.
NorthBrit
Well-Known Member
Two carriages from the Bachmann Thomas the Tank range. Sightly weathered and now on the local Kirkstall to East Seacroft service.
and two North British Railway carriages from the Hornby Company. In real life two carriages made the long journey daily from Edinburgh to Plymouth. This started in 1888 and continued until 2007. First by the North British Railway in conjunction with the Great Western Railway; the London & North Eastern Railway & Great Western Railway from 1923; Finally British Railways from 1948.
David
and two North British Railway carriages from the Hornby Company. In real life two carriages made the long journey daily from Edinburgh to Plymouth. This started in 1888 and continued until 2007. First by the North British Railway in conjunction with the Great Western Railway; the London & North Eastern Railway & Great Western Railway from 1923; Finally British Railways from 1948.
David
NorthBrit
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your comments, Hutch.
When I planned my layout I began researching what trains actually ran in the area (and why) I modelled. Surprising results turned up allowing unusual rolling stock to be required. All true to life. Great fun.
David
Snowman
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I do appreciate you "wording words" here, as you just taught me a lot, and also put me on to a couple or three trains of thought. Hourglass holes? Yes, they would have to be I guess, which could actually be pretty helpful if you were inserting--as a group, and using a purpose designed machine (rather than one at a time by hand)--a row of grab irons, for example, into a series of laser cut holes. It might not be necessary to first taper the ends of the grabs at all to begin the insertions* provided the narrowest part of the opening was smaller than the diameter of the grabs. That alone might be sufficient to hold them in place, at least for a time, whether ultimately fastened in place using a thin cyanoacrylate or even if just held in place by a topskin of paint.
[* all possible sexual joking aside]
With regard to vibration, that is a factor I had not considered at all. I suppose once you've seen one in operation, thoughts like these would finally occur to you (me, in this case). The purpose of the vacuum might also be to hold a very thin material in place, which might otherwise droop simply due to gravity alone. Being a N-scaler these days, I tend to think in terms of very thin materials, fine diameter wires, thin paint skins, and fine particle and grain sizes. All of a piece, I guess.
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ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Snowman: Thanks for the kind words. Those 'hour glass' holes are still tiny. I suspect that you could not see the bevel unless you had a really good microscope.
Thought that you might get a giggle out of the pix:
The engraving on the left was my first cut using one piece of paper. Cat ( Bob ) jumped up on the table when he heard the noise or saw the laser head moving and his motion caused a little wind wave which moved the paper. Woops said I. You can NOT feel the cut in the board at all. So, took that paper off and checked it out for as far as it got - nice smooth cuts with square edges. When I checked them out with a magnifying glass, you could almost see a radius in the 90 degree cuts. Turned the power down to 50% and doubled the head speed to 2000mm per minute; I think. The 2nd cut I used 2 pieces of paper with the total cut taking about 2.5 minutes. Did not cut all the way through the top page but got me a ball-park idea of adjusting the speed vs power; and that looks to boil down to multiple passes for soft wood around 0.187" thick. Need to play with wood to find the ideal combination of speed/power to minimize the black edges.
Now it is time to go to the drafting program ( FreeCAD ) and draw something needed.
Oh, that thing that looks like a volume control knob is a 20mm piece of Aluminum that is used to focus the laser. Ya stand it up between the laser diode frame and material, push the frame down then tighten thumb screws. AND - the 1st cut had more smoke than the 2nd, so I assume that most of the smoke was from engraving the cutting board.
Another thought on the vacuum plate idea. I could be possible that sucking down the material will not be a 95% vacuum so the material will not be flat which could cause problems; it will have bubbles where the vacuum holes are not, divots where they are. Of course that would depend on material thickness. Paper, thin plastic and some card stock may be susceptible .
Later
Thought that you might get a giggle out of the pix:
The engraving on the left was my first cut using one piece of paper. Cat ( Bob ) jumped up on the table when he heard the noise or saw the laser head moving and his motion caused a little wind wave which moved the paper. Woops said I. You can NOT feel the cut in the board at all. So, took that paper off and checked it out for as far as it got - nice smooth cuts with square edges. When I checked them out with a magnifying glass, you could almost see a radius in the 90 degree cuts. Turned the power down to 50% and doubled the head speed to 2000mm per minute; I think. The 2nd cut I used 2 pieces of paper with the total cut taking about 2.5 minutes. Did not cut all the way through the top page but got me a ball-park idea of adjusting the speed vs power; and that looks to boil down to multiple passes for soft wood around 0.187" thick. Need to play with wood to find the ideal combination of speed/power to minimize the black edges.
Now it is time to go to the drafting program ( FreeCAD ) and draw something needed.
Oh, that thing that looks like a volume control knob is a 20mm piece of Aluminum that is used to focus the laser. Ya stand it up between the laser diode frame and material, push the frame down then tighten thumb screws. AND - the 1st cut had more smoke than the 2nd, so I assume that most of the smoke was from engraving the cutting board.
Another thought on the vacuum plate idea. I could be possible that sucking down the material will not be a 95% vacuum so the material will not be flat which could cause problems; it will have bubbles where the vacuum holes are not, divots where they are. Of course that would depend on material thickness. Paper, thin plastic and some card stock may be susceptible .
Later
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
My model railroad budget has been on hold with all the outrageously expensive things that have been happening to the house. But almost all those alligators are beaten back, and THIS MONTH - Feb 2023, I finally got to order the BLI Texas and Pacific 2-10-4. I was so bummed when the first run happened and I had no money for it. Never thought they would do a second but WOW lucky me they did. Then I got even more lucky as BLI had one in their refurbished sale department. Had to take road number 610 rather than 619 but I can live with having a "non prime" numbered locomotive for a savings of $200! At the same time picked up two F3s that were also on the clearance rack. Now I also have to find a caboose for it.
Will post picture in the RPO when they arrive.
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
I never heard of the Baldwin Centipede in UP colors until yesterday. Turns out, the UP ordered a couple sets of them but never took delivery. BLI made the model anyway several years ago and I guess they just got around to refurbishing it with the Paragon 4 decoder.
I ordered a set which consists of the AA team, both with the P4 sound system. It should be here early next week.
I ordered a set which consists of the AA team, both with the P4 sound system. It should be here early next week.
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
I saw those in the list. They actually look better in the UP scheme than any of the others. Maybe because one is just used to seeing UP on massive locomotives like all their turbine stuff and U-50s.
Snowman
Well-Known Member
1st of 4 shipments of weathering supplies to get me started showed up today.
---------
I myself just got my spools of 55AWG nichrome wire from Bulgaria. First thing I ever bought from Bulgaria....
I have four spools @ 2700' each. A bit more'n two miles total, which is a shade over 320 N-scale miles. Probably enough, even for a mega-layout.
It measures 0.014mm in diameter, so I should probably send a piece to ctclibby too, to see if he can "drill" an hour-glass shaped 0.006mm hole through it with his laser cutter.
Otherwise I intend to try my hand at making...N-scale barbed wire. Not kidding. But I do not actually intend to wind it. Why that would be crazy!
I have to blame the thread starter at least a little for this latest bit of my insanity, and even though he is simply trying to make some chain link fence. You know who you are.
And TLOC and the "coils of wire load" he wanted for his flatcar too.
modelrailroadforums.com
I got to thinking then about how to make HO Scale razor wire (I would simply paint it, not actually make it--I'm not insane, after all), and now that has led me to this sorry state of affairs....
Sooner or later I will end up in an asylum--maybe the same one in Thomas Dolby's original video "She Blinded Me With Science." But in the "Model Railroader" wing, and not the "Mad Scientist's" wing.
The self-adhering part seems particularly interesting, and I, for one, am gonna want to hear how well this works out. Please do let us know--maybe a new thread even.
---------
I myself just got my spools of 55AWG nichrome wire from Bulgaria. First thing I ever bought from Bulgaria....
I have four spools @ 2700' each. A bit more'n two miles total, which is a shade over 320 N-scale miles. Probably enough, even for a mega-layout.
It measures 0.014mm in diameter, so I should probably send a piece to ctclibby too, to see if he can "drill" an hour-glass shaped 0.006mm hole through it with his laser cutter.
Otherwise I intend to try my hand at making...N-scale barbed wire. Not kidding. But I do not actually intend to wind it. Why that would be crazy!
I have to blame the thread starter at least a little for this latest bit of my insanity, and even though he is simply trying to make some chain link fence. You know who you are.
And TLOC and the "coils of wire load" he wanted for his flatcar too.
Wire coils loads, NEED HELP
Help Needed See the wire coils on this car? I want to build these as detail parts to use on my layout as loads. I am way overthinking this. I have the bulk head cars, I know how to create the hold downs and strapping. When I worked in the wire forming business all coils were delivered by...
modelrailroadforums.com
I got to thinking then about how to make HO Scale razor wire (I would simply paint it, not actually make it--I'm not insane, after all), and now that has led me to this sorry state of affairs....
Sooner or later I will end up in an asylum--maybe the same one in Thomas Dolby's original video "She Blinded Me With Science." But in the "Model Railroader" wing, and not the "Mad Scientist's" wing.
Attachments
![Shipping_label_from_Bulgaria[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/161/161303-6d0e772715795b3daa076415493ec11e.jpg?hash=bQ53JxV5Wz)
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Tony: So far I like the thing. Looks to be well engineered for the X/Y stuff and after you get it put together and the rail edges aligned, it is sturdy. Note that they claim you can put it together in 20/30 minutes. I suspect that I would have been close to that; took time out for mo coffee, smoke and BS'n with the Wife as she was watching. The X/Y table is about 20" square. I have not checked the extents with software just moving the head around yet. Software ( LaserGRBL ) is somewhat clunky although it might have been me as I try to read to much stuff in what I think the interface should be. I remember reading that you could engrave different depths by varying the laser power, but have not played with that yet. When cutting it is a smooth action and pretty quiet. I wanted to get on this although you probably read my post yesterday about sh.t happening. Not quite done with all the fix'n.
You did not specifically ask about Ties, but that is my current number crunch. Most MRR ties are 2.5mm x 2mm ( width x height ) although I suppose that it can vary a bit. Your basswood is: 1/16 or 1.59mm/0.0625" and the height I am gonna cut is 2mm/0.078". I don't see a problem with either of those thicknesses. In any event, if it will not cut with one pass, will just do another which should take care of it. I have not tried 2 ( or more ) passes yet so I don't know if hoop jumping is in order or not.
I think if I were to get another, I would throw a few more dollars at it and get one with a little more power and the 'air assist'. Power is added by stacking 2 ( or more ) of the laser diodes inside the laser head. The air assist blows cut material away from the laser focal point which allows a faster head speed with less smoke and somewhat less power. I am looking to upgrade this one ... time will tell.
Hope this helps.
Later
Last edited:
CambriaArea51
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of threads in the painting weathering section.
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