Wire coils loads, NEED HELP


TLOC

TLOC

Well-Known Member
Help Needed
2A039D2C-A6B9-4484-9D2C-A4F35F60FFA2.jpeg

See the wire coils on this car? I want to build these as detail parts to use on my layout as loads.

I am way overthinking this.

I have the bulk head cars, I know how to create the hold downs and strapping.

When I worked in the wire forming business all coils were delivered by truck but the coils were wrapped around a stand. 1/2” and 3/8” wire were standard for us and approximately 150,000# a day were used in a 2 shift day.

I truly don’t remember a whole lot of the math from my intern days on the order desk at Central Steel and Wire. So that’s no help to me. The charts online for CS&W don’t indicate the shipping measurements or the weight per coil.

In HO scale what wire do I use for 1/8, 3/8 and for 1/2”. There are 50 coils on that bulkhead flat in the picture banded together in pairs. The inside, wall to wall of my bulkhead car is 62’. I am not good at figuring things out from a photo but I think those coils are 46” wide based on the math.

I am thinking of a winding tool for the coils.

Has anybody made their own? Do you have pictures? Ideas please as I want to use real wire, thread, fishing line or something else that looks like coiled wire. I have seen the unavailable Chooch casted coils and they didn’t look good to my eye. A 3-d print of a coil might work but I’d be totally lost going in that direction.

I promise these loads are for my personal use and I will not sell them if the group can help me out.

Hoping you see what I am missing
 
You might try a corrugated culvert as a winding base--it should help keep the wire alignment. Failing that, maybe silver painted drinking straws.

Definitely power wind, or you will go mad. :D

As to size? 1/2" is 3.5mm/24*, and an American Guage wire-size chart should convert that answer to wire size.

[* in HO, it's 3.5mm per foot. There are also 24 "1/2" inches per foot, so 3.5mm/24]


Thus 3.5mm/24/87 (in HO)=.0017. Thats smaller than AWG 40, as you can see from the chart (AWG #40 is about 1" wire in HO), but I think you'll find wire below AWG 40 more difficult to get and more expensive too.

Amazon sells this one: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-St...r_1_15?keywords=AWG+40&qid=1660443992&sr=8-15

which might be good. Code 40 and smaller is usually "magnet wire" (coated with a copper or red lacquer) but that ^ is not.

Good luck!
 
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I think material like that is used to make ball bearings.
You would need to use the finest wire you can find.
Wire from a snap switch might work. It would be a bit thick but ya still have the idea going.
Windings from any kind of small motor or relays may work. They don't have to be all the same as the gauge of the wire bails can be different.
That will be a tedious project but not impossible.
 
Looks like in the picture that definitely railroad ties are being used for blocking at the base.

As for the wire. I have seen many different types used. Like coiled steel I have seen different materials used from flat stock clock springs to shim stock copied up. So for the wire I think 🤔 finding o'l spools of wire in Michael's or Hobby Lobby in their craft section. Sometimes you can find it on Science and Surplus website too.

I will dig around and share what I find...
 
I find all kinds of odd and ends for materials here at times. ...


American Science & Surplus

American Science and Surplus offers tools, toys, science kits, educational toys, school supplies, arts and crafts items, hobby tools, scales, lab glass, housewares, electronics and much more all at discount incredible prices
www.sciplus.com www.sciplus.com
 
Snowman said:
You might try a corrugated culvert as a winding base--it should help keep the wire alignment. Failing that, maybe silver painted drinking straws.

Definitely power wind, or you will go mad. :D

As to size? 1/2" is 3.5mm/24*, and an American Guage wire-size chart should convert that answer to wire size.

[* in HO, it's 3.5mm per foot. There are also 24 "1/2" inches per foot, so 3.5mm/24]


Thus 3.5mm/24/87 (in HO)=.0017. Thats smaller than AWG 40, as you can see from the chart (AWG #40 is about 1" wire in HO), but I think you'll find wire below AWG 40 more difficult to get and more expensive too.

Amazon sells this one: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-St...r_1_15?keywords=AWG+40&qid=1660443992&sr=8-15

which might be good. Code 40 and smaller is usually "magnet wire" (coated with a copper or red lacquer) but that ^ is not.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Snowman, excellent thank you
 
D&J RailRoad said:
I think material like that is used to make ball bearings.
You would need to use the finest wire you can find.
Wire from a snap switch might work. It would be a bit thick but ya still have the idea going.
Windings from any kind of small motor or relays may work. They don't have to be all the same as the gauge of the wire bails can be different.
That will be a tedious project but not impossible.
Click to expand...
Tedious, yes probably but once I get the 1st looking good enough I should be fine. I have a fan from a kitchen stove that is left from the paint booth. Destructive Tom at work tomorrow

thank you
 
Alcomotive said:
Here is an idea...my thought 28 gauge wire coiled up using a drill etc....

Cheap...wire or coils. With a shot of grey spray airbrush paint........
View attachment 150150View attachment 150151
Click to expand...
James thank you. I will go deep on that site in the morning. I have played with the copper tape. I have left overs from the slot track. It makes decent coil stock wrapped around a cylinder but wasn’t satisfying to make a full load.
 
Thanks folks, all good ideas. I feel like a heel especially after see the sites you guys gave me to check out. I dislike when people say they can’t find something online and when I go digging it’s right there. Then I go pull this and you guys have the info.

I think trying to work this idea out I got to involved and missed the forest for the trees type of thing! I appreciate this info and will check it out.

Anybody with ideas, please chime in
 
CambriaArea51 said:
This was what I came up with, added a little weathering to it. The wire from Amazon.

View attachment 150157View attachment 150158
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Tom, excellent set of videos you passed along. I had watched the glass gullet one but not this one about the rebar. I have seen other rebar load videos also with tag wire. Your load looks super. The tag wire is an investigation I need to look into.

Edit:
I have 26 gage wire for when I make trees. This may become a quick experiment even though the thickness is too thick for coil. It may end up, it’s good enough
 
CambriaArea51 said:
This was what I came up with, added a little weathering to it. The wire from Amazon.

View attachment 150157View attachment 150158
Click to expand...
Wow, just wow. That's the best re-bar load I've ever seen. Between your rust weathering, the strapping, and the way the load splays out at the ends (where unstrapped) that just screams "real world load." I give it at least an 11 out of 10.

Moreover, it might work reasonably well too in N scale, even if the wire guage is a bit too big--construction re-bar comes in many sizes, I think.

Then too, the galvanized finish wire you used is the way to go, if you can find it. With other wire like the type I have turned up so far, the finish is probably too shiny. Maybe a few acid dips of the finished coils could improve on that.
 
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As far as the other ideas go, a few things gnawed at my addled brain overnight, the first of which is that I can't do basic mathematical conversions aided by a scotch and water. Or two.

So let me try again: 3.5mm is already 12"/87. Headslap.
But the rest holds, so divide that by 24 (for 1/2" wire/re-bar)...

...3.5/24=~.146mm AKA very close to AWG 35, and a bit less than AWG 34.

So here's one that might work, just a bit bigger than 1/2" HO scale:

Kanthal A1 - 250' - 34 Gauge Resistance Wire - - Amazon.com

Kanthal A1 - 250' - 34 Gauge Resistance Wire - - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com

Note: That wire ^ is "annealed bright" and I have no idea whether or not it would coil well and not spring-back again when you take it off your winding mandrel.

===============

OR....

This one: https://www.amazon.com/Nichrome-80-..._8?keywords=AWG+34+bare&qid=1660492977&sr=8-8

is "annealed soft," so I would imagine it would hold better if rolled to a relatively smaller diameter than on the original spool. In either case, I think you might want to soak the coiled wire with some CA/super-glue type adhesive so it holds its shape when you take it off whatever mandrel you wind it on. You'll want to make sure the CA doesn't stick to the mandrel either, so mold release (spray) or something like kitchen-type plastic wrap, or waxed paper would probably be required.

===============
OR...

https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Soldering-Electronics-Repairing-Temperature/dp/B08HH3SY28?th=1

Solder wire, I would think, will coil quite well without spring-back. Just don't heat it. :D

===============

OR....and here is the one that knocked at the back door of my brain in the wee hours...

...metallic threads like these: ht://www.joann.com/200m-dekor-metallic-silver/7554181.htmltps

and these: https://www.joann.com/200m-dekor-metallic-grey/7554025.html


and these:


Hard to tell from the links if some of those don't duplicate each other, but it won't matter if you walk into a fabric store, pull a spool off the rack and look it over. Already wound, too, so you can see what a finished coil might look like. If too shiny, weather the coils once you wrap them, just like you would anything else.

If you mouse over the websight photos you can get a highly magnified few, and IMO, some of them look arguably like, not just wire, but even like razor wire/barbed wire might look.

When it comes to actually winding them, I have some ideas there too (probably already duplicated here or elsewhere) about a workable "system" for doing it, so ask if you want more.

As before, good luck!
 
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D&J RailRoad said:
I think material like that is used to make ball bearings.
You would need to use the finest wire you can find.
Wire from a snap switch might work. It would be a bit thick but ya still have the idea going.
Windings from any kind of small motor or relays may work. They don't have to be all the same as the gauge of the wire bails can be different.
That will be a tedious project but not impossible.
Click to expand...
Coils like that are pretty much used to make anything that requires round bar stock; from ball bearings to shafts.
 
Snowman said:
Wow, just wow. That's the best re-bar load I've ever seen. Between your rust weathering, the strapping, and the way the load splays out at the ends (where unstrapped) that just screams "real world load." I give it at least an 11 out of 10.

Moreover, it might work reasonably well too in N scale, even if the wire guage is a bit too big--construction re-bar comes in many sizes, I think.

Then too, the galvanized finish wire you used is the way to go, if you can find it. With other wire like the type I have turned up so far, the finish is probably too shiny. Maybe a few acid dips of the finished coils could improve on that.
Click to expand...
Acid dip not needed. Just a cleaning of Isopropyl Alcohol 91% or 99% would clean the grease of for whatever weathering medium one May like.

snowman, you hit all the right words about how great the re-bar load CambriaArea51 created, again Tom super job

soldering wire, I looked at this morning, still great for hoses but too thick so far for coiled wire

I was thinking of a release off the mandril and think the plastic sandwich wrap might be a good 1st experiment
 
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NCRC5315 said:
Coils like that are pretty much used to make anything that requires round bar stock; from ball bearings to shafts.
Click to expand...
What I am familiar with from 1973 to 1976 is the coils coming in off a truck already on a winder base. Put next to the straightener, pulled through and cut off. Out of college I knew I didn’t want to sit at the order desk at Central Steel and Wire for 5 years, waiting for a sales position. So that internship was an absolute blessing. The wire company I worked for (Archer Wire International) back then made the majority of the steel grills for the Weber-Stephens Grill company (nka Weber grill) and most anything steel wire for McDonalds.

The straightener and cuttoff machines worked round the clock 6 days a week. Besides keeping the clients aware when their orders would ship I was responsible for making sure the wire was brought in from the warehouse daily. It wasn’t called JIT ( Just in time) back then but it was. No wire before it’s time or I heard about it! Boy, I learned so much about production management in those years before marriage that greatly helped when I went north into the window business
 
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