Jaz avalley
Station cat
Someone is going to be a happy bunny
Weathering Rolling Stock, a Continous thread
- Thread starter TLOC
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I get the percentages, but the two drops of X-21 flat base…It makes a difference whether you’re putting two drops in a pint mixture, or a cup, an ounce, or a thimbleful, right?
How big of a batch of 20% white/80% isopropyl are you dropping two drops of X-21 into?
let’s go easy. 20% white to 80% isopropyl Alcohol (ipa)
hand brushing
4 drops of white to 16 drops of IPA then 2 drops of the x-21 base, this should entirely cover a 60’ HO scale box car. The car will have a really matte finish
I am a drop counter for sure
if using the air brush
20 drops of white 80 drops of IPA should be enough for 4-6 cars sprayed at about 22-27 PsI. X-21 is very strong and it would be 3-6 drops ( a feel type thing) depending on the flatness I am trying for. I know that’s not helpful but the x-21 really reacts differently I think because of environmental conditions and the amount of IPA used. I am one of a few left in my weathering group in Wisconsin that even continues to uses the x-21. They prefer the Matt clear coat varnishes after the paints are dried.
If I am doing a single car, I will fade the car using the brush
If I am doing multiples, the air brush is the way I go
if you use the X-21 base, make sure you thoroughly mix it. The talc or whatever the agent in there likes to cling to the top side of my bottles
I know, clear as mud. Keep asking though…
The bottles say it’s Titanium Dioxide. The same thing as Australian beach sand, but ground up finer.
The abrasive nature of the fine sand is apparently what causes the scrubbing if it off with a stiff brush, to leave behind a surface with good bite for further layers.
Thanks for spelling out the amounts of everything.
Did you ever try mixing it with gray, rather than white, for a fade coat? I’m looking to fade some black coal hoppers in N scale, and was thinking that gray might give me finer control.
If it wasn’t such a PITA to brush off after drying I prefer to use it straight out of the bottle. I started experimenting with adding 99% IPA to thin it but the more IPA to thin the less the fade.
As you know or will find out, color changing fades are very personal. I experiment all the time jotting notes down as I plug along. Many times I write right on the butcher paper that covers my work space. Most of the guys I text with when we talk fades say 10 parts thinner to 1 part white (or any color). That works but it is agonizing too slow for me.
One thing that has really helped me is making sure my paints, base coats (x-21) or matte, satin and gloss finish varnishes ((clear coats) are truly thoroughly shaken before mixing. Then making sure the new mixture is thoroughly shaken.
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TLOC
Well-Known Member
He got them today. Raving they are better in person than the pictures. I’m still smiling even after a second 2 mile walk this evening.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
I know how he feels, everytime I look at the ones I have, I can't stop smiling
C&OMtnMan
Well-Known Member
Forgive me for bringing up an older post, Tom, but your formula isn’t very clear:
I get the percentages, but the two drops of X-21 flat base…It makes a difference whether you’re putting two drops in a pint mixture, or a cup, an ounce, or a thimbleful, right?
How big of a batch of 20% white/80% isopropyl are you dropping two drops of X-21 into?
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Thank you Chris, another fun group of cars. Especially that 1st one you got at Christmas
TLOC
Well-Known Member
One of many weaknesses I have is formulas. Sorry.
let’s go easy. 20% white to 80% isopropyl Alcohol (ipa)
hand brushing
4 drops of white to 16 drops of IPA then 2 drops of the x-21 base, this should entirely cover a 60’ HO scale box car. The car will have a really matte finish
I am a drop counter for sure
if using the air brush
20 drops of white 80 drops of IPA should be enough for 4-6 cars sprayed at about 22-27 PsI. X-21 is very strong and it would be 3-6 drops ( a feel type thing) depending on the flatness I am trying for. I know that’s not helpful but the x-21 really reacts differently I think because of environmental conditions and the amount of IPA used. I am one of a few left in my weathering group in Wisconsin that even continues to uses the x-21. They prefer the Matt clear coat varnishes after the paints are dried.
If I am doing a single car, I will fade the car using the brush
If I am doing multiples, the air brush is the way I go
if you use the X-21 base, make sure you thoroughly mix it. The talc or whatever the agent in there likes to cling to the top side of my bottles
I know, clear as mud. Keep asking though…
CambriaArea51
Well-Known Member
Did a great job on those cars Tom.
C&OMtnMan
Well-Known Member
The bottles say it’s Titanium Dioxide. The same thing as Australian beach sand, but ground up finer.
The abrasive nature of the fine sand is apparently what causes the scrubbing if it off with a stiff brush, to leave behind a surface with good bite for further layers.
Thanks for spelling out the amounts of everything.
Did you ever try mixing it with gray, rather than white, for a fade coat? I’m looking to fade some black coal hoppers in N scale, and was thinking that gray might give me finer control.
Last edited:
TLOC
Well-Known Member
I think I have tried it with most of the colors I fade with. Whites, yellows, dirt shades and black. But grey I truly don’t recall so therefore a no! Another part of the reason is I don’t have many bottles of grey in the Tamiya Acrylic line.
If it wasn’t such a PITA to brush off after drying I prefer to use it straight out of the bottle. I started experimenting with adding 99% IPA to thin it but the more IPA to thin the less the fade.
As you know or will find out, color changing fades are very personal. I experiment all the time jotting notes down as I plug along. Many times I write right on the butcher paper that covers my work space. Most of the guys I text with when we talk fades say 10 parts thinner to 1 part white (or any color). That works but it is agonizing too slow for me.
One thing that has really helped me is making sure my paints, base coats (x-21) or matte, satin and gloss finish varnishes ((clear coats) are truly thoroughly shaken before mixing. Then making sure the new mixture is thoroughly shaken.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
Yes, that one was definitely a surprise, thank you.
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Something on the bench
A BNSF buffer car was being tested and one coupler wasn’t returning to center.
Working on the fix
Yes, I thought about and then tried to remove the entire coupler pocket but it really isn’t worth all that effort. Hopefully re-building the side wall of the pocket will work out.
If it doesn’t the Dremel will be the weapon of choice
When the BNSF workers painted the white on the top side of the car they didn’t seem to care that the paint was dripping down the car, so I didn’t either but I stopped a lot higher then an actual car shows the drips
A BNSF buffer car was being tested and one coupler wasn’t returning to center.
Working on the fix
If it doesn’t the Dremel will be the weapon of choice
When the BNSF workers painted the white on the top side of the car they didn’t seem to care that the paint was dripping down the car, so I didn’t either but I stopped a lot higher then an actual car shows the drips
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
Looks really good Tom, nice work as always.
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Thank you
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Interesting day today. While I feel better I agreed to limit my time at the bench.
Yes, they are all the same numbers.
Tomorrow the containers for the 3 spline cars and the 4 double stack well cars will be lightly weathered. The clear coat is drying.
I did touch up some spots on the spline cars and while packing them up I noticed the trailer hitches and posts are missing. Double checked the package and texted the client. No where to be found. Called Bowser and Jerry in customer service was outstanding. Replacements are being sent out. Not sure how I missed these but I did…
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Lots of trial and errors. Thank goodness for 99% Isopropyl Alcohol
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Container are up for testing today.
12 for a client and 2 for me. I am testing fading and grime colors out on my 2
The top clean container is to indicate the contrast. The bottom container is mine.
The white was faded using #71.001 White by Vallejo Air 5 drops of paint to 50 drops clean water. Rare for me this fade was applied twice to each side, top and ends of the container with my air brush. I let the fade dry between the applications
Vallejo Air applied as a wash 5 drops of paint to 20 drops of clean water. #71.027 light brown. This mix was applied to one side 3 times
The weathered green container is mine placed atop a clean container for contrast.
Again a wash of Vallejo Air but the color is #71.031 Middlestone mixed 5 drops of paint to only 15 drops of clear water. This mix made enough for 2 applications against 1 side and one pass across the roof. There was no attempt to fade this container beyond the cleaning with 99% Isopropyl Alcohol.
Just to show the 2. Next is the roofs and the front panel.
The door panels on the back panel of both of these containers will be done with Pan Pastels. PP will be used also for some rust streaking where the contain pinning points are that join the containers together.
I have been pleasantly surprised how quickly I was able to process these 2 containers to this stage. I am also not sure the fade at least on the white container is needed beyong the normal cleaning with 99% IPA.
12 for a client and 2 for me. I am testing fading and grime colors out on my 2
The top clean container is to indicate the contrast. The bottom container is mine.
The white was faded using #71.001 White by Vallejo Air 5 drops of paint to 50 drops clean water. Rare for me this fade was applied twice to each side, top and ends of the container with my air brush. I let the fade dry between the applications
Vallejo Air applied as a wash 5 drops of paint to 20 drops of clean water. #71.027 light brown. This mix was applied to one side 3 times
The weathered green container is mine placed atop a clean container for contrast.
Again a wash of Vallejo Air but the color is #71.031 Middlestone mixed 5 drops of paint to only 15 drops of clear water. This mix made enough for 2 applications against 1 side and one pass across the roof. There was no attempt to fade this container beyond the cleaning with 99% Isopropyl Alcohol.
Just to show the 2. Next is the roofs and the front panel.
The door panels on the back panel of both of these containers will be done with Pan Pastels. PP will be used also for some rust streaking where the contain pinning points are that join the containers together.
I have been pleasantly surprised how quickly I was able to process these 2 containers to this stage. I am also not sure the fade at least on the white container is needed beyong the normal cleaning with 99% IPA.
TLOC
Well-Known Member
Well I did not get the reaction from the client I was hoping for or expecting. Glad these are mine and not his.
I also had to have a discussion on the phone to let the SOB know if he has issues with my experiments on my stuff he can say yes or no to the direction I’m taking in the future and that’s it. That is if we do business in the future. His wife called back after I told him his containers will be ready for his daughter to pick up after school on Friday, no charge as I haven’t done anything to them. She apologized for him. Told her the containers I have can be picked up and the balance of the 50 well cars I have not started other than clear coating will be ready also at no charge. The 50 well cars I had started I will finish this weekend and will be ready on Monday after payment is received. She laughed, said, “ he said you were pissed”. Yes, I am. I have bent over backward for this guy and he has pushed the envelope. This is a hobby and fun for me and as I told his wife last night I certainly don’t need the money. She asked what I meant by that. Told her I promised my wife and myself if this became a job I would quit. Her hubby has created a job I don’t need.
Anyway, I like the green containers but I will tone down the grime on the future Swift containers. The one shown I will clear coat after working the front and back panels this morning. Every photo but one I found of the Swift containers are much cleaner on the side panels and dirtier on the front and rear door panels.
I also had to have a discussion on the phone to let the SOB know if he has issues with my experiments on my stuff he can say yes or no to the direction I’m taking in the future and that’s it. That is if we do business in the future. His wife called back after I told him his containers will be ready for his daughter to pick up after school on Friday, no charge as I haven’t done anything to them. She apologized for him. Told her the containers I have can be picked up and the balance of the 50 well cars I have not started other than clear coating will be ready also at no charge. The 50 well cars I had started I will finish this weekend and will be ready on Monday after payment is received. She laughed, said, “ he said you were pissed”. Yes, I am. I have bent over backward for this guy and he has pushed the envelope. This is a hobby and fun for me and as I told his wife last night I certainly don’t need the money. She asked what I meant by that. Told her I promised my wife and myself if this became a job I would quit. Her hubby has created a job I don’t need.
Anyway, I like the green containers but I will tone down the grime on the future Swift containers. The one shown I will clear coat after working the front and back panels this morning. Every photo but one I found of the Swift containers are much cleaner on the side panels and dirtier on the front and rear door panels.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
Well I hope his attitude changes, if he had concerns regarding how you weathered the stuff then voice them without ruffling feathers, there's no need for it. As you said, for you this is enjoyment, not supposed to be work.
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