Trying to get my layout going - N DCC

[ajaxusa]

Hello all,

Finally getting back to building my first layout. I have chosen an Atlas cookie cutter layout for N scale and want to do it in DCC instead of the old way. I am new to this dispite trying to get this project going for over 19 years....sad huh? Now I have kids and they want a train...so here we go....

View attachment 15715 Atlas 11018 layout for N scale book #7

Here is the layout. Now, the guys from the N scale threads were nice enough to help guide me in the right direction, but I still need help.So far i know this...

I only need to include the plastic rail joiners/isolaters for rev loops and program tracks.




My equiptment includes this:

Atlas Commander and powerpack
MRC rev loop controller
atlas tracks and switches (switch contollers)
atlas wires
MRC old school power packs (for powering lights and other scenery items)


Questions i need answered please:

1. Do i need more power packs to run more than 4 trains.
2. Do i need to add rail power supplying joiners to both rails often, or as many as the atlas ruled show (remember, this layout insructions are NOT for DCC).
3. I need a clearer explanation on how to wire the program track and keep it part of my yard. Other than plastic rail isolaters/joiners, do I need to also wire it differently or add or omitt something???
4. Should I swap all my metals wheels for the original plastic ones on the cars? Do metal wheels on cars hurt DCC or rev loop controlers in anyway or confuse them?
5. Do I need to run a bus wire system under the tracks or is this not needed for DCC.

6. Should I run seperate buss for accessories and scenery from the track? Something tells me yes do to the different power packs. Does anyone have actual photos of their buses under their layouts? I just want to get a visual...I am a visual kinda guy.


I will add more questions as I run into them. Thanks for now. You guys are very kind and helpful. Thank you in advance.

Bill

 

[dpeterson3]

Welcome first off. Secondly, DCC wiring is much easier than conventional wiring (albeit not as much fun for an electrician). You only need your single Atlas commander. With DCC, each engine has its own decoder . No other power supplies are needed. If you really want to, you can run your lights off of the track power. With DCC, the track power is always 14V. As for rail joiners, use powered ones as often as possible. By adding more power points, you ensure that power stays to the rails even if a joint is loose. I personally think a better way to do it is use regular loose rail joiners and solder power wires directly to the track. It makes a better connection and saves a lot of money on expensive powered rail joiners.

Programing track. There should be several terminals on the back of your commander. I can not remember which one is which (has been so long since I messed with a commander). Two will be for track power. Two will be for a programing track. 2 will be for power. Look in your manual for a breakdown of what each line does. The programing track should be totally isolated from the rest of the layout. Use the plastic rail joiners to isolate it. Then run two wires to the programing terminals on your commander.

Metal wheels will not make a difference. Go ahead and use them.

Here is an overview of how DCC works vs. Conventional DC power. I don't think you really understand what DCC is.
DCC uses digital commands to run trains. With conventional DC, trains are run by applying a varying voltage to the track. The voltage determines the speed of the train. With DCC, the entire layout has 14 volts of power constantly. Trains are controlled by sending serial data packets down the rails. The packets contain information. This includes the locomotive's address (the number used to control it), the direction, speed, and accessories to operate. Every decoder on the rails receives every packet, but they only respond to the one with their own address. To give a locomotive an address, it is put on the programing track. You use the Commander to give it an address. Since each locomotive responds only to its address and not power changes, only 2 bus wires need to be run for the entire layout with the exception of the reverse loops and programing track. The programing track needs to be wired to the programing terminals on the Commander. The reverse loops are connected to the master bus as well. They need to be wired through the MRC reverse loop switches. This prevents the reverse loop from shorting out when a train passes in out out of it (which allows you to run metal wheels). Since the rails always have power on them, you could wire your accessories directly to the track. You will not be able to control them if you do this however. If you get a more advanced DCC system, you can get what are called Accessory decoders. You can wire them strait to the main track bus and control scenery the same way you control trains. For now though, just run one wire for each accessory and tie all commons together to save wiring.

I hope this helped. Good luck.

 

[tankist]

Metal wheels will not make a difference. Go ahead and use them.
.

metal is better, just make sure your longest train that goes through reversing section is NO lognger then the section. you don't want to trip both ends of reversing loop at once

EDITED: ooops

 

[ajaxusa]

DP3,

Thank you for taking the time and explaining all that. Funny thing is, the only part of this I get completely is the DCC concept that u are running the trains and not the track, so Im sorry you wrote all that, but maybe it will help yet some other member that doesnt get it, so good deal.

as for the wiring portion and commanders....oof. I def have a better idea of it now, thanks to your detailed answer. I feel more confident to buy what I need. The Atlas commander that I have came with a power pack(booster?). So I might as well use it.

Also, back in 2002 or 2003 when I was buying suff online, I went to tower hobbies and unfortunely for them, they has rail joiner pairs listed for .22 cents! A HUGE mistake on their part. I bought 50! They changed the price shortly after they realized their mistake. So im pretty good on that. I will even have a bunch extra! hehe.

So, do you think I am ok with just 1 MRC rev loop controller? I think I am ok with one since there is one rev loop. I guess I pic a side to install it on? please see the photo above.

Thanks again.

 

[Steamfreak]

metal is better, just make sure your longest train that goes through reversing section is lognger then the section. you don't want to trip both ends of reversing loop at once

I think what Anton means to say is that the longest train needs to be SHORTER than the reversing section....or you will drive the loop controller crazy....

 

[dpeterson3]

Sorry about the long explanation then. I thought it might help you get an idea of how the wiring would work. Nice deal on the rail joiners. 1 MRC controller should be fine. I have one concern that hopefully someone a little more experienced can clear up. I use only 1 MRC on my layout, but my reverse loop is not part of 2 mains. It enters and leaves at the same point only. Yours is across 2 mains. I believe only 1 rail will be out of phase in the reverse loop, but I am not sure. Someone want to check me on that? Forgot about making the train shorter than your loop with metal wheels. Thanks tankist for mentioning that.

 

[ajaxusa]

Dont be sorry! That was good stuff. Hopefully it can help othres too. Is there a sticky created with all this stuff? THat might be a great idea to put all this stuff on a sticky so it can all be consolidated for people like me to see. just an idea.

Thanks for all the help.

That was my concern too. I noticed that the outside track is isolated, but the inside one is not? UNLESS the common rail isolaters shown on the detailed layout somehow create an isolation point else where? I should post the close up so you guys can see the plan, UNLESS that violates some kind of copywrite...so I will wait.

 

[kato]

same design

ajaxusa i have the same track design runnning and boy!!!!..what a nightmare it has been..
the atlas design and wiring setup is in some places incorrect..the main fault lies within the reverse loop, they have placed one to many plastic rail joiners at the crossover turnouts 25/26..(i had to remove one of them b4 it finally worked)
the reverse switch should be in between points 26 and 27 and not where it currently shows..it was wired for use with DC and not DCC to which i now run and finally have it all running.....
only big nuisance with it now is the direction of travel...
have you worked out the direction of travel yet? you will get a big shock if you decide to run the direction using the mainline incline (block 33) as going up.....you can only use it once!!!! because of the layout design and the reversing loop you can only now exit out the upper level by going back down the same way you came up!..and once that happens you can NEVER return to the same direction.....try it and you will see..going up block 32 direction you can only get out using block 33...itz a real pain in the you know where!
and finally a bit of info with regards to their plan in it it says that turnout 22 leads down to the lower level!!!!!...heheheheheh wot lower level!!!!! It's impossible..it goes to nowhere....
hope this don't put you off..itz a nice design i like using it, but it has a few silly ideasand some flaws..
regards
kato