Should I go with DCC

[robermv32]

I've built my bedroom size layout hand-laying track and building in place turnouts with powered frogs. I have 4 ( that's right four ) reverse loops that allow me to facilitate a longer main line run. There is a track diagram in my photo album here.

I have many "older" engines all DC. Atlas GP-40, Alco C420, Alco RS-11, Athearn F7 ,GP-9, GP30. GP35 GP38 Kato NW-2, Walthers FA-2 Intermountain F3, Stewart FT. All DC.

My operation consists of Car card, waybill and I usually run one mainline train at a time. The yard is a separate circuit with a double pole double throw selector switch that allows for it's own power supply or mainline power.

Ok, questions;
If I were to go with a DCC system for the same type of operation, which system is best suited ?
I'm basically interested in the sound feature of the DCC system and know the decoder is the item that has to be matched to the engine. Any suggestions ? I remember seeing a page somewhere here that had such a list but like a lot of things my memory is getting shorter with age.

I worry about the sensitivity of short circuits as there are occasions where the solder will separate and allow the points of the turnout to short. Will this destroy any DCC system ?

I'm not overly concerned with the price factor. I've waited long enough to be ready...I think. Looking forward to your responses.

 

[D&J RailRoad]

I would think that with a layout that is large enough that you would be working your train around the industries, you should certainly consider a DCC type system with radio link.
I have been using Digitrax as my first and only DCC system. Though there is a learning curve you have to go through, it's learnable. I believe there are more people using Digitrax than any other DCC system though there will certainly be people who accent their experience with other systems as "really good" or "best system". One would need to work each system for a period of time to provide a quantifiable evaluation. Each system will have certain steps to go through to select locos, program addresses or fine tune the functions of the models. None of them are intuitively obvious to a new user without some degree of coaching or explanation.
So with that, considering your degree of expertise of hand laying track and building turnouts, I would think you are a few notches above one who gets the box of train parts out once a year for the Christmas tree setup. You shouldn't have any problem figuring out any of the more predominent DCC systems.

 

[Selector]

If your engines are good runners now, they'll be gooder in DCC. If they're only okay runners now, they'll be only okay in DCC. If they're plugs in DC......................................

Honestly, any of the modern DCC systems that meets your own set criteria, whatever those will be, especially for power supply to the rails, you will be happy with. They all work the same way, essentially. And, in the matter of saving your solders, they all detect shorts really well and will cut off track power inside of about a tenth of one second, usually quite a bit less.

They won't detect shorts well if you only have a single pair of feeder wires to the rails. If you have two, they may, but really the ideal is to have a pair of feeders to the rails with separations of no more than about 10'. You can get away with more, but the general wisdom is between 3-10'. If you don't have enough feeders, the system has a hard time detecting the short due to voltage drop.

Where the shorts take place is at the frog if you have live frogs. Not necessarily so, but it has the highest probability of occurence there due to variances in gauge for the many axles going through them. I'm speaking of metal tires, not plastic, so your locomotives and any metal wheelsets in the rolling stock. If they touch both points rails going through the points, or touch both rails at a frog that doesn't get polarity changes automatically or with a flipped toggle, you can get shorts. Probably the safest choice is to cut gaps at the frog and wire the frog with a switcher or DPDT, or use the Tortoise reverser capabilty...as an example.

To succeed with decoders, the decoders must get power directly from each rail, and the brushes of the motors can only get power from the decoder's motor outputs. The brushes cannot have any contact with the frame if it is part of the circuit, as an example. Anything else and you can enjoy the odor of the magic smoke that will issue forthwith from said decoder.

 

[Cjcrescent]

As long as you have proper gaps in your rails under DC, there is really nothing else that needs to be done to turnouts for DCC. If you've had no shorts in DC, there won't be any in DCC.

I have a 3 level layout, (17x23) that except for staging and hidden trackage, is all hand laid as are the turnouts outside of staging. I have used the DC wiring rules to wire it for DCC, and have no problems with shorts.

Any good DCC system that you are comfortable with will work. The only thing I would try to find out is what system is in majority use in your area. That way you can get that system and have a built in "database" of people who can help with troubleshooting and problem solving.

 

[robermv32]

I want to thank all of you who have offered advice. I believe I will just jump in and make the investment after consulting with some hobby shops as to the specifics ( decoders etc.)
Thanks again. Wonderful site and am glad I found it.

 

[joed2323]

By all means make the jump to dcc. You will not regret your decision. I personally think dcc is where its at. The things you can do with dcc are by far superior to dc.

If you go on youtube, you can get some ideas of some different types of dcc systems, for example digitrax zephyr or maybe nce power cab/procab

You can type in nce power cab review/ digitrax zephyr review. It will give you an idea on how each system works.

Of course there is many other systems out there on the market but these two companies are the most popular of the others, and many rr clubs prefer these over something else

 

[robermv32]

One of my major concerns is how I have my yard wired now. I use a dpdt selector switch to select between Mainline power pack and a secondary yard power pack. That way I can switch the yard while another train is on the main. By selecting the Mainline pwr pk, I then can run the main line train into the yard. No problem so far but here it is. Using the Yard power pack, I can go to another dpdt switch and change that from rail power to turntable motor power. Now, IF I convert DCC, will I beable to continue to keep the yard system as is ? Can I have DCC run the rail power and switch to the Yard power pack to run the turntable motor ?

 

[Burlington Bob]

If I understand correctly what you are saying all you would need to do is just keep the old power pack set up to run the turntable. Connect the yard block with the mainline block and you can run both on DCC. That's probably the simplest way. I'm sure that if you wanted you could control the turntable with DCC also but I haven't got that involved with DCC yet to tell you how.

 

[robermv32]

If I understand correctly what you are saying all you would need to do is just keep the old power pack set up to run the turntable. Connect the yard block with the mainline block and you can run both on DCC. That's probably the simplest way. I'm sure that if you wanted you could control the turntable with DCC also but I haven't got that involved with DCC yet to tell you how.

Bob, I think I'll go with your suggestion. I like the turntable operation as a separate entity. Thanks for the idea

 

[waltr]

The old power pack can only be used for 'tuning' the turn table, not for powering th track on the turn table. The track must be powered from the DCC system.

What I'm doing for a turn table is use a auto-reverse module to detect and correct the polarity of the turn table rials when a loco rolls onto or of the turn table. The module I'm using is a 'dual frog juicer' setup as a auto reverse.
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/frogjuicers.html

My layout (see my build thread) is also all handlay track and turnouts. The turnouts are Fast Track style with isolated frogs powered by 'frog juices'. These work great.

You also mentioned having some reversing loops. These would need to be isolated (probably already are) then powered through an auto reversing module. There are several on the market.

As to decoders. Evaluate each loco then decide which decoder to install. Since DCC has standards almost any decoder can be used with any DCC system.

Once you do convert to DCC I think you'll find much more fun operating since the locos are now not restricted to 'DC blocks' but can run on any track at any time regardless of where any other locos are sitting or operating.

 

[montanan]

Although I am a DC operator, if I were to be starting a new layout, I would probably go with DCC. Looking at your track plan, I believe that you would enjoy it very much. My mainline has been complete, mostly all hand laid code 70, and is completely wired and operating flawlessly. I have well over 30 locomotives and almost all of them are older locomotives. Being that I am a lone operator, DC does work just fine, but if I were just starting, instead of being at the stage I am now, I would also go with DCC. I can't help you with what unit to use. I do have one brass locomotive that I have installed DCC in, with sound that I do take when I visit oher layouts. It has a quantum system and really works great. If there were more operators in my area and if I were to have regular operating sessions, I would probably change over. but being that I do operate alone, I am going to leave it alone.

 

[robermv32]

Ok, I've read more lately than I ever did in school. I'm convinced that the next step for me is to make the jump. But, all the literature says this one is the best and that one is the best. Usually with the highest price tag to prove it. My next questions for this learned group are,

First: Seeing that I am a lone operator and usually only move one train at a time, what is the opinion as to the system that will best suit my needs. Digitraxx, NCE, MRC Bachmann????

Second: What is the main benefit of having the 3 Amp or the 5 Amp systems?

I didn't like the Digitraxx Zepher because my track plan requires a walk around not a stand alone.

I did like the MRC Prodigy Wireless DCC System #0001410 for around $280.00 but haven't heard anything about how reliable they are.

Next was NCE 524-25 Powercab Complete DCC System for around $140.00 any input ?

Last consideration is, Digitrax 1043, SCFX Super Chief Xtra 5 Amp DCC System for around $390.00. Again, any input on any of these systems for a one operator layout.
I now await the magic of this forum, that being first hand knowledge....

 

[NWP95501]

Should yo go DCC.....yes
What system is the best?
Open the flood gates.
I like my MRC prodigy.... I'm sure others will like different. I live in a very rural area. I'm never going to run trains with anyone due to geographical constraints. If you plan on operation with other people near you....consider using what they are....so group operations are easier...
But I'm by no means an expert. This topic gets a little tired sometimes.

 

[Motley]

With a small layout, only one operator, and only one train at a time. Just get the 3amp system. The 5 amp systems are for running 5 or more locos at a time.

The MRC I don't like, because you can't use JMRI to program your locos. Without JMRI I would just die.

I have the NCE 5amp with wireless.

NCE is easy to learn for newbies. So I would go with the NCE Powercab.

I agree, this topic gets old, it comes up at least once a week. Just pick one, they all work fine. I think you've had plenty of great feedback here, to make an educated decision.

Good luck, and report back what you bought.

 

[waltr]

NCE or Digitrax have the best features, options to upgrade and compatibility with a other DCC equipment.
I run a DigiTrax Zephyr and a UT2 (now its the UT4) hand throttle for walk around operation. My layout has a couple of UP5 panels (LocoNet) where I can plug in the UT2.
Both DigiTrax and NCE have wireless hand controllers (cost more than wired).

I typically have from 4 to 6 locos on the track and powered (4 with sound) and can have two operating at once. So the 3Amp system is enough for more than a few locos that use modern, low amperage motors.
The SCFX Super Chief started set is a good system. You do need a power supply as it doesn't come with the starter set.
"Note: Super Chief Xtra Sets require a power supply that is sold separately by Digitrax or may be supplied by customer."
The DCS100 Command station will do all that you need and the set includes the UP5 panel with walk around throttles. If you need to you can add additional UP5 panels in different locations around your layout. They just need a LocoNet cable connected between UP5 panels.
Since you do have more than a few locos the 5Amp system is better to start with. Once you get more locos converted to DCC then you can add another Booster (sub-divide the track into blocks, one block for each booster). Plan this from the start to have several isolated track blocks (like you would for block control with a DC power system). Then it is easier to break the power bus under the layout to add a booster.

Please keep us posted on what you get.

 

[robermv32]

Well, Merry Christmas to me. I went and bought the Digitrax Super Empire Builder Extra. Then I began re-wiring my layout with the BUSS system and got rid of a lot of wire from the old block system. I have the DB 150 hooked up to my MRC 20 powerpack that has plenty of power using the COIN method as described in the Digitrax set up instructions. I'm waiting for the decoders and sound bugs to arrive and until then I'm running a single DC engine on the layout. The handlaid track is short free and all the feeders are attached. I can't wait to get this baby going. One thing has me CONFUSED. When I went to attach the power in wires into the DB150 one would go but as soon as I touched the second one it would spark. This continued no matter what I did. Connected to the track, disconnected from the track. Then I changed the power in from the DC terminal on the power pack to the 16 VAC terminals and everything works...I thought it should be DC voltage going in...but...16 VAC works . I'm still reading the manuals and checking YouTube as well as coming here to gain more knowledge so I can reduce my level of confusion.....I think...maybe, anyway, this is where I'm at for now.

 

[Burlington Bob]

Congratulations on your purchase. I have a Digitrx Zephyr Xtra and so far I like it quite well. I also love the control that DCC gives me. DC pales in comparison.

 

[Selector]

You don't apply power to the DB150 until all other connections are built and secure. Only then do you plug in your power supply. The spark is just that, an indication of power jumping out to the rails, or energizing the rails.

Unless I have misunderstood..

Crandell

 

[robermv32]

You don't apply power to the DB150 until all other connections are built and secure. Only then do you plug in your power supply. The spark is just that, an indication of power jumping out to the rails, or energizing the rails.

Unless I have misunderstood..

Crandell

No, the spark comes when I attempt to connect the second power IN line. This only occurs with the DC terminals from my pwr pack. If I connect the 16 VAC wires the DB150 comes on and operates the track.

 

[robermv32]

Ok, here's an update. First off, I'm not any type of electrical wizzard but I'm teachable. I've only burned up 2 decoders so far. One was purely my fault the second was a strange thing for sure. First was a miswire on the install (my first ) the second was due to a mislable on the motor. Postive lead was actually the negative. It took some searching to discover this. Once the leads were reversed and the new decoder installed it is working fine. The difference in operation is amazing. Almost worth the frustration of "learning what the heck I'm doing." I've since installed motor decoders in 5 engines and sound in 3. I will next have to set up my auto-reversing for the 5 reverse loops on the layout and I should be in business. Not bad for 30 year old engines and a 60 year old man. I would like to take the opportunity to thank this site for the invaluable assistance and wealth of knowledge. Without you guys...I'd be throwing a bunch of expensive stuff in the garbage by now.
Thanks,