Running Bear's July 2023 Coffee Shop

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"Joe - It does seem that the forces behind the push for EV's have been totally ignoring many of the accompanying effects, battery fires, battery disposal, charging infrastructure & stations etc. Pushing for too much too fast in my opinion. Now many owners are noting that in weather extremes, either way, hot or cold, there are additional issues with reduced range meaning increased cost of operating.
Daughter #2's husband bought a new EV about three months ago and severely regrets his decision. He drove to Kansas City and back last weekend and had to make two unplanned charging stops, first having to locate a non-Tesla place since he couldn't make it to his planned one, and then waiting several hours to move up in the queue and the charging time".

Willie: - I have been in favor of alternate power sources for cars since the Saudis got greedy and used Israel as an excuse to cut production and jack up prices. EVs have numerous advantages, not the least being fewer emmisions per mile traveled. That said, our infrastructure is not ready for mass use EVs, and there are numerous other issues that need to be worked out before we go around mandating anything. #1, they cannot be parked inside, as I can my old Car...they really shouldn't be too close to the structure either...Definite fire and exposure extension probability. The transporter fire on the North Sea, unlike the similar fire in Port Newark, several weeks ago, differs in that all the vehicles were new, mostly from Germany, and headed for distribution in the Western World. There were 25 EVs among the cargo, and they were all located together. So it was immediately known that the fire started in one of them. NFPA studies tell us that EVs burn at a significantly hotter temperature, and tale a lot of water to cool down and extinguish, and are still prone to rekindle... At present that makes EVs a greater threat to lives and property than any other kind of vehicle, including Hybrids, Hydrogen Propelled,or LNG propelled. Until this is resolved, we should not be making policy to replace our current personal transportation network with EVs, within 7 years (more or less).
 


McLeod said:
A re-railer, I believe:
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Guy: OK, #1 is a Derail, with an obvious purpose
#2 is a Frog, every switch has one. There are retrackers of several types, but this is not one of them. (But they have been used to rerail under certain circumstances).
#3 Is a compromise joint, used to connect rails of two sizes together.
#4 Is a semi-automatic switch, which allows for TRAILING movements through improperly lined switches.(Slang Name "Racor" after the manufacturer.
#5 Standard switch stand. Switch must be properly aligned for all movements. (This one happens to be manufactured by Racor), but has "keepers" to hold the switch in alignment.

Brooms, are there for a reason, to clear switch points of snow or other debris.

Curt: Thanks for asking. She's being discharged as we speak. Physically, nothing wrong with the old girl. Mentally, another story...
 
EV's SchmeeVees!
Remember gas lines in the 70's, how about a 50 car line for a charge!
50 CAR TESLA LINE.jpg

Just what do you do while you wait for hours for a 20 minute fast charge?
What do you do if your battery wont last the length of the line?

I will waive as I go by with my truck.
 
Joe - I agree on he need for an alternate power source for vehicles, but let free enterprise do it's job. Don't force it on me. I don't think that it will happen in my lifetime though. Mandates from our current government are stupid. Here in Texas, charging stations are few and far between; besides we need our electricity for air conditioners right now. I happened to drive by the closest charging station to me at a Walmart about 25 miles away earlier today. Several lines of cars waiting, at 12:00 noon; almost the worst time of day to be charging!
One of the reasons for the lack of charging facilities in this state, is that electric rates are set by "peak usage" capacity, not overall usage. This is discouraging small business's and convenience stores from installing them. Why pay higher rates all day long when you only reach "peak" for short periods of time? In our window factory in the early 2000's, we staggered the time clocks in different parts of the plant and buildings, to reduce our surge when all machinery was turned on at the beginning of shifts. It evened out the load on our transformers as well as keeping the "peak" lower.

My understanding of those auto transporters is that any fire is difficult since there is no access space between the layers of vehicles on board
 
Bottom line is electric cars are another way of government control.
I think if someone lives in big city and commutes 10 to 40 miles to work each day, an electric car would be a solution to pollution. But for me I also would have a gas powered vehicle in case I wanted to take a 1,000 to 1,200 mile trip.
But thats just me.

Upside of electric vehicle : no fossil fuel emissions.

Downside of electric vehicle : Initial cost.
Costs of replacement batteries after 20 +/- years. Usually far exceeds value of vehicle.
Disposal of old batteries. Not much to recycle here, just toxic chemicals.
Lack of new power plants to provide increased electricity demands.
Lack of charging stations plus time wasted waiting on charging.
Diesel emissions/fuel for operating generators to provide electricity at charging stations off grid.
Battery explosions more likely in an accident with electric cars.

This should really stir up a hornets nest in Coffee Shop. Rave on...........
 
westtexjohn said:
Upside of electric vehicle : no fossil fuel emissions.
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At least right now there is plenty of fossil fuel emissions. Even if you ignore the mining, manufacture, and transport of the car before you got it, there is a good chance, unless you run your own and are disconnected from the grid and run your own power 100%, that the power from your outlet is at least partially generated with fossil fuels right now and that won't change unless they have massive uptakes in nuke plants.
 


westtexjohn said:
Bottom line is electric cars are another way of government control.
I think if someone lives in big city and commutes 10 to 40 miles to work each day, an electric car would be a solution to pollution. But for me I also would have a gas powered vehicle in case I wanted to take a 1,000 to 1,200 mile trip.
But thats just me.

Upside of electric vehicle : no fossil fuel emissions.

Downside of electric vehicle : Initial cost.
Costs of replacement batteries after 20 +/- years. Usually far exceeds value of vehicle.
Disposal of old batteries. Not much to recycle here, just toxic chemicals.
Lack of new power plants to provide increased electricity demands.
Lack of charging stations plus time wasted waiting on charging.
Diesel emissions/fuel for operating generators to provide electricity at charging stations off grid.
Battery explosions more likely in an accident with electric cars.

This should really stir up a hornets nest in Coffee Shop. Rave on...........
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There is no upside of electric vehicles...because all that you listed on downside are in fact fossil fuel emissions. The whole idea of battery powered vehicles belongs in RC cars, that's it. Not in full size machines where there is real mass of 1:1 scale vehicle carrying human beigs and their belongings.
 
chadbag said:
At least right now there is plenty of fossil fuel emissions. Even if you ignore the mining, manufacture, and transport of the car before you got it, there is a good chance, unless you run your own and are disconnected from the grid and run your own power 100%, that the power from your outlet is at least partially generated with fossil fuels right now and that won't change unless they have massive uptakes in nuke plants.
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I was referring to the emissions of one electric vehicle. There is a multitude of emissions created in the manufacturing and transporting of any vehicle, electric or other.
America will always have a need for fossil fuels. No way around that. I think there is no clear advantage to electric cars, just a trade off.
 
kbkchooch said:
Ditto

You also need to service the rear axle soon.

1 thought about AWD . Tires need to be kept within 25% of each other tread depth wise or driveline damage is possible. If tires have 8/32nds of tread and 1 has to be replaced, the new tire can have no more than 10/32nds of tread. If new tire is at 12/32nds, then you need to replace 4.
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Thanks again Karl, great information!

How much should I expect to spend for transmission and rear service?

Is Bill and Earls transmission, Jim Jennings, or Glen Burnie transmission still good? Or is there somewhere else you recommend?

I refuse to go back to Koons chevy for anything.
 
Boris said:
As most of you know, my other interest is fire fighting. You may recall my concerns with the propensity of cars powered by Lithium Ion Batteries to catch fire, and cause destruction beyond the loss of the vehicle alone. For your consideration, find this Reuters article released today, concerning a fire on a Motor Vehicle Carrier in the North Sea off of the Coast of the Netherlands.
Since EVs are a key part of efforts to reduce Greenhouse gasses , this is serious problem that keeps getting ignored by those who should be most concerned, and those who seek solutions to environmental problems.



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LOS ANGELES/AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Electric vehicles are crisscrossing the globe to reach their eager buyers, but the battery technology involved in the zero- emission automobiles is exposing under-prepared maritime shippers to the risk of hard-to-control fires, industry, insurance and emergency response officials said.
That risk has been put under the spotlight by the burning car carrier drifting off the Dutch coast. The Dutch coastguard said the fire's cause was unknown, but Dutch broadcaster RTL released a recording in which an emergency responder is heard saying "the fire started in the battery of an electric car."
While all logistics companies deal with the risk of EV lithium-ion batteries burning with twice the energy of a normal fire, the maritime industry hasn't kept up with the developing technology and how it creates greater risk, maritime officials and insurers said.
There were 209 ship fires reported during 2022, the highest number in a decade and 17% more than in 2021, according to a report from insurer Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty (AGCS). Of that total, 13 occurred on car carriers, but how many involved EVs was not available.
The European Maritime Safety Agency said in a March report the main cargo types identified as responsible for "a large share of cargo fire accidents included ... lithium-ion batteries."
Dutch news agency ANP, citing operator "K" Lines, said there are almost 4,000 cars on the ship. That total includes 25 EVs.
A person answering the phone at "K" Line's main U.S. office said he was not authorized to discuss the fire. Japan's Shoei Kisen, which owns the ship, said it was working with authorities to get control of the fire.
The cause of the fire, while still officially undetermined, has raised questions about "what blind spots there are when transporting electric cars powered by batteries - which when they catch fire can't be extinguished with water, or even by oxygen deprivation," said Nathan Habers, spokesperson for the Royal Association of Netherlands Shipowners (KVNR).
"The first question that comes to mind is: Does the current code stack up against the risk profile of this type of goods?" he added.
One hazard in lithium-ion batteries is "thermal runaway," a rapid and unstoppable increase in temperature that leads to fires in EVs that are hard to extinguish and can spontaneously reignite.
Fire extinguishing systems on the massive ships that haul cars weren't designed for those hotter fires, and shipping companies and regulators are scrambling to catch up, said Douglas Dillon, executive director of the Tri-state Maritime Safety Association that covers Delaware, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
Recent fire-related losses are resulting in increased insurance costs for automakers shipping cargo and costs are likely to increase for vessel owners as well, said John Frazee, a managing director at insurance broker Marsh. As ship owners seek to limit losses by legally pursuing automakers whose vehicles are determined to have caused a fire, automakers are buying additional liability protection, he said.
Exacerbating the risks is the business model used by the companies that includes tightly packed ships. Auto carriers like the burning ship are known as RoRos, which stands for roll-on/roll-off - the way cars are loaded and unloaded.
RoRos are like floating parking garages and can have a dozen or more decks carrying thousands of vehicles, industry officials said. Unlike parking lots, however, cars are parked bumper-to-bumper with as little as a foot or two of space overhead.
Firemen typically put out EV battery fires on roadsides by clearing the area around the burning vehicle and flooding the underside with water, something difficult to do on a RoRo, Dillon said.
"There's no way for a firefighter in protective gear to get to the location of a fire" on a ship, he said, adding the cramped conditions increase the danger getting trapped.
While trains and trucks also transport EVs, isolating and extinguishing fires is easier as workers can unhook a rail car and a trucker can pull over, said Frazee.
Frazee expects insurers to lead the charge on strengthening safety systems on ships. Options being worked on include new chemicals to douse flames, specialized EV fire blankets, battery piercing fire hose nozzles and proposals to segregate EVs.
"I see no quick solution," Frazee said.
The International Maritime Organization, which sets regulations for safety at sea, plans to evaluate new measures next year for ships transporting EVs in light of the growing number of fires on cargo ships, a spokesperson told Reuters.
That could include specifications on types of water extinguishers available on boats and limitations on the amount a battery can be charged, which impacts flammability.
With EVs here to stay, KVNR's Habers said his group is discussing tightening regulations to account for the additional safety risks.
"There is already a whole lot of communication underway about this," he said, "but with this incident it becomes apparent we might need to speed up the process, especially when you consider that the number of this sort of cars is only going to rise."
Global auto sales last year totaled 81 million vehicles, 9.5% of which were EVs, according to EV-Volumes.com. China and Europe have been the most aggressive regions in pushing automakers to shift to EVs, and U.S. President Joe Biden's administration has proposed rules that could result in as much as two-thirds of the new vehicle market shifting to EVs by 2032.
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What is even more scary is that the problem of same kind of batteries on B787 Dreamliner has never been actually solved. At the introduction of service there were already two fires. Turns out same problem exists and what was eventually done, was to encase the airliner batteries in special casing that trapps and prevents (supposedly) the fire from spreading outside the casing.
 
Bruette said:
Thanks again Karl, great information!

How much should I expect to spend for transmission and rear service?

Is Bill and Earls transmission, Jim Jennings, or Glen Burnie transmission still good? Or is there somewhere else you recommend?

I refuse to go back to Koons chevy for anything.
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Louis
At one time Glen Burnie Automatic was THE place to go on that side of town. I don't know anything about the others.

Complete fluid exchange on an Equinox runs about $350.00, small diff fluid service about $150.00
 


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