Newbie question on DCC

[Smudge617]

I've noticed in the US, the usual method of fixing the road bed and track is to use some form of glue or caulk, which if your using a foam type surface, would realistically be the only way to ensure the track stays where you want it.

In my experience the UK doesn't, on the whole, use this method, we lay the roadbed and track directly onto our (usually) plywood base, some will still use glue to secure the roadbed and track, but it's a method I don't really like, especially if you find you only need to move the track 1 or 2 mm, it's a lot of work to remove the glue before you can re-lay the track that slight amount.

I don't use any glue except when ballasting or doing scenic's, spike's or nails are the usual method here, (although for the life of me, why nails??). I use screws, (which are the same size as nails) very easy to use and remove if I find I have to move the track slightly, maybe 10 seconds to do it, no prying, scraping, cleaning or need of a vacuum, holds both the roadbed, (I use 2mm cork underlay as the roadbed) and the track firmly in place.

 

[D&J RailRoad]

Screws? you must be referring to O scale.

 

[Smudge617]

Screws? you must be referring to O scale.

You can get them from O down to N scale, they might even do T, but I haven't seen any, all my track is Hornby, so OO scale, all held by screw's, no glue anywhere, except for ballasting and scenic's

Model railway track screws various lengths and gauges +- screwdriver track pins | eBay

The 'Mini screwdriver' is a small (8cm long) very basic screwdriver. It's cheap for a reason. It is only suitable for 00 gauge 6, 8 and 10mm long screws. Do not use longer screws than you need. 15cm long screwdriver with swivel cap for more comfortable screwing.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Iron Horseman]

Can you please elaborate on “matte medium “? Never heard of it. Thanks Iron!

It is used by artists to increase fluidity of acrylic paint, increase translucency, and take away sheen. Was also used over water color and charcoal paintings to protect and preserve from incedental splashing and humidity.

Matte Medium

Anyway, turns out it is a great adhesive for collages and other craft projects. It is permanent, non-yellowing, doesn't turn brittle when dry. In fact I would say it retains a tiny bit of elasticity. Think of it like white glue only better.

I brush it on fairly thickly put some sort of weights on the roadbed and then wipe away anything that oozes out from under the roadbed. After drying, repeat for the track. It is also water resistant so it won't "melt" when one goes back to ballast model train track. Likewise when one goes back to change a track arrangement, it is not nearly as messy to "undo" as latex caulking.

 

[OgreMike]

Yeah, any caulk that dries flexible.
Another tip on gluing track down. Someday ya might want to lift the track for a better design or salvage. If ya just slather that caulk as wide as the ties you'll have a job of lifting the track. If you only lay down a narrow bead out at the end of the ties on each side, you only need to cut that to lift the track.

When caulking the track, do you lay a narrow bead down on the roadbed FIRST . . . then spread the bead a little, then lay down the track? How do you handle flex track?

 

[D&J RailRoad]

Just a thin bead along the edge of the ties is where you want to caulk. Once the caulk has dried, you add your ballast which will help keep the track in place. When you want to lift the track, spray the ballast with wet water then run a razor under the edge of the ties to free the track.
If you spread that caulk across the entire ties, it will be more difficult to cut from the cork roadbed.

 

[OgreMike]

I've noticed in the US, the usual method of fixing the road bed and track is to use some form of glue or caulk, which if your using a foam type surface, would realistically be the only way to ensure the track stays where you want it.

In my experience the UK doesn't, on the whole, use this method, we lay the roadbed and track directly onto our (usually) plywood base, some will still use glue to secure the roadbed and track, but it's a method I don't really like, especially if you find you only need to move the track 1 or 2 mm, it's a lot of work to remove the glue before you can re-lay the track that slight amount.

I don't use any glue except when ballasting or doing scenic's, spike's or nails are the usual method here, (although for the life of me, why nails??). I use screws, (which are the same size as nails) very easy to use and remove if I find I have to move the track slightly, maybe 10 seconds to do it, no prying, scraping, cleaning or need of a vacuum, holds both the roadbed, (I use 2mm cork underlay as the roadbed) and the track firmly in place.

Thanks greatly Smudge! Btw, can’t say enough nice things about the UK! Was lucky enough to have spent some time there during my flyboy days in the USAF!! Anyway, precisely what size screws do you use on the cork/tracks? Does it detract from the looks? Or do you cover over with ballast? Thanks!!

 

[JeffH]

I'm N scale, so maybe slightly different...

I just used Elmer's Glue-All to lay down the cork onto the Foam board (no wood). I used T-pins to hold the cork overnight, then pulled out pins the next day.

I used straight pins to tack down my Atlas Code 80 flex track. Very inexpensive, and super simple, as the Atlas track had pre-drilled holes about every3-4 inches. Originally, this was just to get things set enough to test everything before laying the track onto the cork more permanently. It works so well that I have just left the straight pins in place... nothing else hold my track to the cork. I did hit each pinhead with a black sharpie to make the pinheads less noticeable.

Works for me!

 

[Smudge617]

Thanks greatly Smudge! Btw, can’t say enough nice things about the UK! Was lucky enough to have spent some time there during my flyboy days in the USAF!! Anyway, precisely what size screws do you use on the cork/tracks? Does it detract from the looks? Or do you cover over with ballast? Thanks!!

Really, which base, at a guess, either Lakenheath or Mildenhall, I used to work for a coach company in the area, we did all the transport from the off base housing for the schools.

As JeffH mentioned, they have pre drilled holes every 3"-4", but you don't need to use every one, usually one either end of the track section and one in the middle holds it nicely, if you use flex or flexi track you'll need to use a few more obviously.

Most of the screws I use are 6mm (0.23") with a few 10mm (0.39") on the sections I added later ( I stuffed up the joint basically and had to use a thicker underlay), the screws available are from 6mm (0.39") to 14mm (0.55") , over here we get various packets anything from as few as 50 screws ($3.50) up to 2.2lbs ($20.00) (and 2'2lbs is far more screws than you will ever need in several lifetimes), I think I bought 400 ($11.50) I've still got loads left over it's probably cheaper than using caulk, plus they're reusable.

What I like about using screws or spikes is that there's no waiting around for glue to dry, even if you find you got it wrong day's or weeks later, it's so simple to remove a few screws, make the correction, screw it down again, done.

As for detracting from the look, well, you tell me ?

Both of those shot's are taken from about 6" away, a couple are noticeable as you can see the silver heads of the screws where I've stripped the paint, but that's an easy fix if you want to, but I honestly don't notice them myself.

These one's are a bit harder to spot, but there's 9 screws in the turnouts and adjoining track.

mmmm just noticed that broken tie and the off set ones, must remember to fix them.

The trick, if your going to use spikes or screws, not to fasten them down too tight, if you do, it becomes obvious as the rail tie deforms and you can see a slight dip in the tie, it will also, very slightly pull the rails inwards, not a problem on a straight section, but on turnouts and curves can cause problems.

 

[Iron Horseman]

mmmm just noticed that broken tie and the off set ones, must remember to fix them.

Pictures are always revealing. I think it looks fine, take a picture, look at the picture and say EEE Gads!

 

[buicfrank]

Can’t you just cut the ties in the middle. They would straighten out some. Not all ties are perfect. Frank

 

[OgreMike]

Really, which base, at a guess, either Lakenheath or Mildenhall, I used to work for a coach company in the area, we did all the transport from the off base housing for the schools.

As JeffH mentioned, they have pre drilled holes every 3"-4", but you don't need to use every one, usually one either end of the track section and one in the middle holds it nicely, if you use flex or flexi track you'll need to use a few more obviously.

Most of the screws I use are 6mm (0.23") with a few 10mm (0.39") on the sections I added later ( I stuffed up the joint basically and had to use a thicker underlay), the screws available are from 6mm (0.39") to 14mm (0.55") , over here we get various packets anything from as few as 50 screws ($3.50) up to 2.2lbs ($20.00) (and 2'2lbs is far more screws than you will ever need in several lifetimes), I think I bought 400 ($11.50) I've still got loads left over it's probably cheaper than using caulk, plus they're reusable.

What I like about using screws or spikes is that there's no waiting around for glue to dry, even if you find you got it wrong day's or weeks later, it's so simple to remove a few screws, make the correction, screw it down again, done.

As for detracting from the look, well, you tell me ?

View attachment 157830View attachment 157831

Both of those shot's are taken from about 6" away, a couple are noticeable as you can see the silver heads of the screws where I've stripped the paint, but that's an easy fix if you want to, but I honestly don't notice them myself.

These one's are a bit harder to spot, but there's 9 screws in the turnouts and adjoining track.

View attachment 157832

mmmm just noticed that broken tie and the off set ones, must remember to fix them.

The trick, if your going to use spikes or screws, not to fasten them down too tight, if you do, it becomes obvious as the rail tie deforms and you can see a slight dip in the tie, it will also, very slightly pull the rails inwards, not a problem on a straight section, but on turnouts and curves can cause problems.

Looks great Smudge! I’m thinking seriously of trying it your way!
As for the old USAF days, I wasn’t fortunate enough to be stationed in the UK, but I did spend some temporary duty time with the AWACS unit I was with up at Lossiemouth. So wonderously beautiful and clean up there! And the locals treated us like royalty!

 

[OgreMike]

 

[OgreMike]

Above is one of the two Warren Truss bridges that I managed to build from an Atlas kit this evening. Beastly to put together! Very small pieces fitting into tiny receiver slots on both the bridge base and the trusses. The instructions say you should drop dabs of glue on the reception slots and fit the various pieces together. This is NOT a good idea when you’re using fast-setting super glue, as I was! Better to snap the pieces into place, then apply dabs of glue at critical pressure points. The Atlas instructions on how to put these together are very lacking, IMHO!

 

[Smudge617]

Looks great Smudge! I’m thinking seriously of trying it your way!
As for the old USAF days, I wasn’t fortunate enough to be stationed in the UK, but I did spend some temporary duty time with the AWACS unit I was with up at Lossiemouth. So wonderously beautiful and clean up there! And the locals treated us like royalty!

I love Scotland, admittedly that part of the UK can get freaking cold, but even so, a nice part of the world, hopefully you got to do a bit of sightseeing while you were there.

Give the pin's/screws a try, just get a few to see how you get on, it doesn't work for everyone, some don't like the look it has, or that using pins doesn't keep the track rails flat to the board, where glue does etc, etc, there are a myriad of reasons modellers do things the way they do and I suppose it's a case of each to their own, I'm not knocking using glue, my personnel opinion is, it's a very time consuming method whether your laying or removing track for the same result, but then again, I'm an enthusiastic enthusiast rather than a true modeller.

That's some nice bridge's you've built, looks really good, I've an Atlas Curved Chord Truss Bridge, still in its box I bought it to use on my little diorama I wasn't intending to build, (long story) I ended up using, I think it's a Hornby bridge, which had three pieces in total .
My layout is all Hornby track as I started in UK steam in OO scale and now run both OO and HO, (much to the amusement/horror of some members I'm sure) so my layout is a real mish mash of different scale structures, cars and Loco's and probably looks horrendous to most.

I don't think manufacturers thought about people using Super Glue when the instructions were written, and invariably the instructions are written by the people who designed the model so they already know how it goes together rather than us mere mortals who have no idea how to do it, but I suppose that's the trade-off you get when your trying to produce a true copy of something in miniature

I have quite a few laser cut MDF structures, I rarely use any glue on those, if they stay together by themselves, I'll build it and then paint it, the paint, I've found, works just as well as glue, and if I decide to change it, easy to take it apart and store it flat rather than have large storage boxes with only 2 or 3 structures in them.

 

[OgreMike]

I love Scotland, admittedly that part of the UK can get freaking cold, but even so, a nice part of the world, hopefully you got to do a bit of sightseeing while you were there.

Give the pin's/screws a try, just get a few to see how you get on, it doesn't work for everyone, some don't like the look it has, or that using pins doesn't keep the track rails flat to the board, where glue does etc, etc, there are a myriad of reasons modellers do things the way they do and I suppose it's a case of each to their own, I'm not knocking using glue, my personnel opinion is, it's a very time consuming method whether your laying or removing track for the same result, but then again, I'm an enthusiastic enthusiast rather than a true modeller.

That's some nice bridge's you've built, looks really good, I've an Atlas Curved Chord Truss Bridge, still in its box I bought it to use on my little diorama I wasn't intending to build, (long story) I ended up using, I think it's a Hornby bridge, which had three pieces in total .
My layout is all Hornby track as I started in UK steam in OO scale and now run both OO and HO, (much to the amusement/horror of some members I'm sure) so my layout is a real mish mash of different scale structures, cars and Loco's and probably looks horrendous to most.

I don't think manufacturers thought about people using Super Glue when the instructions were written, and invariably the instructions are written by the people who designed the model so they already know how it goes together rather than us mere mortals who have no idea how to do it, but I suppose that's the trade-off you get when your trying to produce a true copy of something in miniature

I have quite a few laser cut MDF structures, I rarely use any glue on those, if they stay together by themselves, I'll build it and then paint it, the paint, I've found, works just as well as glue, and if I decide to change it, easy to take it apart and store it flat rather than have large storage boxes with only 2 or 3 structures in them.

Thanks Smudge! Very interesting stuff you’re telling me. And I’m in total agreement with you about the beauty of Scotland! Some of the RAF fellows took us out for a tour of the local area. I got to see an ancient castle dating back over 1000 years, I’m sure, and the amazing part was the most around it . . . still intact! The next day we took off and went back to the mainland ( Ramstein), the entire perimeter of the base was lined with folks wanting to see and take pictures of our plane. Never seen anything like it here in the states!
Got to seize the day and get to work in the train room! I’ve decided I need to seal the building better from the outside air and put in another light or two so as to see what I’m trying to accomplish better.

 

[Smudge617]

Thanks Smudge! Very interesting stuff you’re telling me. And I’m in total agreement with you about the beauty of Scotland! Some of the RAF fellows took us out for a tour of the local area. I got to see an ancient castle dating back over 1000 years, I’m sure, and the amazing part was the most around it . . . still intact! The next day we took off and went back to the mainland ( Ramstein), the entire perimeter of the base was lined with folks wanting to see and take pictures of our plane. Never seen anything like it here in the states!
Got to seize the day and get to work in the train room! I’ve decided I need to seal the building better from the outside air and put in another light or two so as to see what I’m trying to accomplish better.

Ramstein, know it well, went there a few times while stationed in Germany, you'll have to post some foto's when you finished your "home improvements"

Saw these, for your next build.

 

[OgreMike]

Great looking bridges! I finished two more bridges today via more Atlas kits. Much easier were these now that I had experience with the Warren truss bridge.

 

[Smudge617]

Great looking bridges! I finished two more bridges today via more Atlas kits. Much easier were these now that I had experience with the Warren truss bridge.

How many bridges do you intend have ?

 

[OgreMike]

How many bridges do you intend have ?

The plan for the Oregon Pass Lines calls for 3 bridges, all in sequence, to cross a gorge which has both sides of the mainline going underneath them. The two Warrens sandwich a deck truss bridge to cover a gap of 27 inches. All 3 are supported by 4 Atlas bridge piers. Don’t know if you’ve ever viewed the plan as published, but it’s Layout HO-36 in the Atlas King Size book. The book is available online for about $17 US. I’ll post some photos today. Got a lot done yesterday including insulating some drafty top reaches of the train room with some expanding spray foam whilst on a ladder! Also put in some shop lights. My old bones are achy today, but I got it done. Even managed to lay some more of the mainline. Might finish the mainline today. Mike