My poor track laying causing derailments, any fix?

[Jacob Z]

Because of my novice abilities, I have a gap between two pieces of flex track that meet on a curve. (Yes, I know. It was the first track I laid before I had any idea what I was doing.) I have been getting away with it up to now, but with a new loco I just bought, the front bogie derails every time at that exact spot. (Amusingly (?) if I reverse over the spot, it rerails itself.)

Is there any way to fix that gap other than tearing up a length of track and doing it right? The thought of trying to insert a length of track that is the exact right length, on a curve, terrifies me.

Could I maybe fill the gap with solder and then file it to shape? Or is that completely insane?

If I do have to tear it up, any tips?

 

[jjames25]

I have occasionally filled similar gaps by gluing in a piece of styrene. Once the glue has fully dried, file, cut or sand the styrene down to the proper size and then paint it your chosen rail color.

 

[diesel]

Couple of things.

You can fill the gap. But not with solder alone. Cut some segments of track just a little shorter than the length of the gaps (probably in a vise) and slide them into a new set of rail joiners between the two sections. Those will fill the gap. Pull the old joiners and throw them out. I could be mistaken, but it looks like you didn't cut back the plastic under the rail, to provide space for the joiner to go over the rail. I'm guessing that is why the near left one is pointing downwards.

Second, you have discovered that track is springy, when you bend it it resists and continues to try to straighten out. So where the curved sections meet, there is a sudden bend in the rails. This may or may not be an operating problem, but it looks bad. The solution is to pre-join sections that willl be used on a curve, and also, stagger the joins so they are separated by a few ties. That way, each side has solid rail opposite to help keep it straight. Place the sliding and fixed rails so they meet the other, not the same. Make it longer than it needs to be because bending it will make the outer rail longer and you will have to trim. To be honest, it appears that the track behind has the same issue.

The problem with trying to fix it in place, is that you will be fighting the spring tension of the track which will try to undo your efforts at aligning/rejoining them.

Additionally, and I hope you don't take this personally because most people can't solder, your solder joins are wholly inadequate. The solder has not spread or wicked between the rails and joiner very much at all. You need to get more heat on it, and rather than list the numerous things you need to know to get a good join, I will suggest that you just research soldering. It's a skill and an art.

When you solder joins on a curve, you should solder the joins *before* you bend and position the track.

 

[santafewillie]

Solder is one way to fix it. You could also cut and file an exact size piece of scrap rail and insert it into the gap, using super glue to hold it. On my old layout, I used a piece of Evergreen styrene filed down on one side to fit into the rail joiner, and then filed the top and sides to match the rail contour...not exactly though. If the sliding rail is on the outside radius, if you used flextrack, you might try sliding it together to reduce the gap.
Whoops, two other posters answered while I was typing.

 

[diesel]

Looks like I'm not the only person with the scrap rail trick. I have done that many times and it works well. I solder them because then there's no break in the electrical continuity. It's good to "dress" the results with a fine file so there's no burrs or wonky edges. I think, in this case, the gaps are too big to fill with solder alone.

Reminds me, too - careful that solder doesn't build up on the inside of the rail-joiner connection. That will hit the flanges and cause derailments.

Your rail ends are not flush. File them flat after cutting.

 

[RhB Michael]

The other fix would be to desolder everything and use a wick or solder sucker to get the solder out after its liquified.

Then square up the ends of the rails with a file or a Dremel cut-off wheel on the face of the wheel. I don't see anything holding the track in place so I guess you glued down. Break that bond and pull the rails together with new joiners and re-solder correctly.

You will decrease the curve radius slightly at this point and for a couple of inches in both directions.

So, there are your choices. If it were me, I would be cutting that bad section out and replacing it with fresh track, cut and soldered correctly.

 

[steelwheels]

Because of my novice abilities, I have a gap between two pieces of flex track that meet on a curve. (Yes, I know. It was the first track I laid before I had any idea what I was doing.) I have been getting away with it up to now, but with a new loco I just bought, the front bogie derails every time at that exact spot. (Amusingly (?) if I reverse over the spot, it rerails itself.)

Is there any way to fix that gap other than tearing up a length of track and doing it right? The thought of trying to insert a length of track that is the exact right length, on a curve, terrifies me.

Could I maybe fill the gap with solder and then file it to shape? Or is that completely insane?

If I do have to tear it up, any tips?


View attachment 239673

Actually, I cannot understand why you thought this was not going to be a problem.

Slow down, use common sense. The smaller the scale, the more important such things become.

Good luck
Pep

 

[diesel]

That speaks to what I said about sacrificing some track at the ends. Make it too long, then you can cut it back and prepare it as needed on both ends. Indeed, it is too hard to make it the exact right length, in place.

 

[Jacob Z]

Actually, I cannot understand why you thought this was not going to be a problem.

Because I am a complete beginner, this was my first attempt, I was having a hell of a time not getting the rails to pull apart when I curved them (I hadn't yet learned I should have soldered them first) and I had no idea how much I could get away with.

 

[Jacob Z]

You can fill the gap. But not with solder alone. Cut some segments of track just a little shorter than the length of the gaps (probably in a vise) and slide them into a new set of rail joiners between the two sections. Those will fill the gap. Pull the old joiners and throw them out. I could be mistaken, but it looks like you didn't cut back the plastic under the rail, to provide space for the joiner to go over the rail. I'm guessing that is why the near left one is pointing downwards.

Yes, that near left one looks bad on inspection. I hadn't even spotted that. (This was my very first join, so I made all kinds of mistakes). I'm wondering if I can pull up just enough track - say, an inch either side of the joiners - to open up enough space to remove the old joiners and insert the new.

The solution is to pre-join sections that willl be used on a curve, and also, stagger the joins so they are separated by a few ties. That way, each side has solid rail opposite to help keep it straight. Place the sliding and fixed rails so they meet the other, not the same.

Yep, I learned about pre-joining after I struggled so much with the first one and then watched a bunch of videos I should have watched before. The idea about staggering the joins is new to me and makes a lot of sense. I will put it in my back pocket for next time. I'm intrigued about the suggestion to have the sliding and fixed rails opposite each other - I see the value - because everything else I read/watched before now said that the sliding section should always go to the outside.

Additionally, and I hope you don't take this personally because most people can't solder, your solder joins are wholly inadequate. The solder has not spread or wicked between the rails and joiner very much at all. You need to get more heat on it, and rather than list the numerous things you need to know to get a good join, I will suggest that you just research soldering. It's a skill and an art.

Well, it's definitely personal but it's not offensive, it's just true Again, this was my very first joint, and my experience with soldering was minimal too. And not only were (to some extent, still are) my skills poor, so was my soldering iron, which I have since replaced. I have also watched a bunch of videos since then and had a lot more practice, so at this point I would say that my soldering is close to adequate.

 

[Jacob Z]

If the sliding rail is on the outside radius, if you used flextrack, you might try sliding it together to reduce the gap.

I might try that first, on the basis of "the simplest thing that could possibly work". The next joint is almost flush; having made every possible mistake on that first one, and learned a few lessons, I did a lot better the second time*. So maybe I can end up with a small gap at each end that's tolerable (or solderable).

*At least, I think I did a lot better the second time. Here's a pic of the next joint. It's zoomed in, which obviously makes the soldering look worse than it does to the naked eye. Of course, this one was on tangent track, which is a lot easier. At this point my confidence could use some compliments - or at least a "yep, that's adequate" - before I quit model railroading and go build static dioramas instead :-D

 

[Jacob Z]

Looks like I'm not the only person with the scrap rail trick. I have done that many times and it works well.

Actually, I'm encouraged to know that even more experienced people have had gaps that needed fixing. I needed that!

Your rail ends are not flush. File them flat after cutting.

Yes, I will do when I have the joint apart. Again, first joint and I didn't know what I didn't know. After doing this one I bought a pair of Xuron flush cutters and a set of needle files.

 

[Jacob Z]

The other fix would be to desolder everything and use a wick or solder sucker to get the solder out after its liquified.

Then square up the ends of the rails with a file or a Dremel cut-off wheel on the face of the wheel. I don't see anything holding the track in place so I guess you glued down. Break that bond and pull the rails together with new joiners and re-solder correctly.

You will decrease the curve radius slightly at this point and for a couple of inches in both directions.

So, there are your choices. If it were me, I would be cutting that bad section out and replacing it with fresh track, cut and soldered correctly.

Fortunately, I have had almost as much practice with desoldering as I have with soldering :-D.

Yes, it is glued down. My previous experience (I had another join where I didn't realize that the track joiner had slid under rather than onto the rail) is that this is not quite as terrible as it sounds.

I'm thinking that the correct order to do things in is to solder on the new track before curving it and then trimming the ends that meet on the tangent track to fit, and then to solder that end? I have some track nails (if I can find where I put them...) to hold the track in place while I glue it and re-ballast it. (Ugh. Pulling up that ballast is going to be messy).

 

[Jacob Z]

Thanks for all the suggestions. If anybody is interested, I have a long-running thread where I document all the mistakes I've made and things I've learned that will hopefully benefit other novices. (It's called A Beginner's Journey Part 2 - don't ask about Part 1...). Once I'm done with the fix, I'm going to summarize the advice here and add it to that thread.

 

[steelwheels]

Because I am a complete beginner, this was my first attempt, I was having a hell of a time not getting the rails to pull apart when I curved them (I hadn't yet learned I should have soldered them first) and I had no idea how much I could get away with.

NO, the last step is soldering; you need the track to match mechanically first.
Laying track
Connect the two lengths, butt them together, with no gap.
Spike and move to the next
& repeat.
After a section is complete.
Example: 6ft run, locate rail joined midway
Then drill wire size diameter holes. On the outside of the rail joiner..
Push the wire down through the holes, solder, then finish the rest

Curves:
Flex track, when a curve is formed, will always have long & short rails, as you know. I suppose you could solder first. It's been a while since I worked with the flex track. But I remember putting the rail that slides on the inside of the curve, fixed to the outside. Spike, then true the other end.

Butt the next section. no gap & repeat, this can be done without soldering. If soldered before the curve is formed. It will be a PIA to adjust if needed, removing a few spikes ........... much more user-friendly.

It really is not that hard. Again, for small scales N, Z, there is limited wiggle room.
Cheers
Pep

 

[santafewillie]

the sliding section should always go to the outside.

Sliding rail works best on the inside. Then you're only cutting rail to length. If it is on the outside, then you are removing ties as well as rail. Flex a piece both ways first to see what I mean. You still need to remove the end tie to make room for the joiner. Shave the tie plates and spikes off the one removed and then slide it under the joined section. I personally do not stagger joints because that takes a lot more precision cutting.

 

[RhB Michael]

Break up that ballast with a small screwdriver and use a hand vacuum to get it off of the sub-roadbed.

I do not stagger joints either Willie. I find it easier and more precise to cut both the same length before soldering the next section and then bending it.

 

[RhB Michael]

I might try that first, on the basis of "the simplest thing that could possibly work". The next joint is almost flush; having made every possible mistake on that first one, and learned a few lessons, I did a lot better the second time*. So maybe I can end up with a small gap at each end that's tolerable (or solderable).

*At least, I think I did a lot better the second time. Here's a pic of the next joint. It's zoomed in, which obviously makes the soldering look worse than it does to the naked eye. Of course, this one was on tangent track, which is a lot easier. At this point my confidence could use some compliments - or at least a "yep, that's adequate" - before I quit model railroading and go build static dioramas instead :-D


View attachment 239766

It looks as though the rail was not hot enough and you are rushing the bond. Your iron tip may need cleaning and it may not be hot enough. If that is lead-free solder, ditch that crap and find some 60/40 lead tin rosin-core solder. And use some external rosin on the rails and joiner anyway to be certain the rail and joiner is clean.

When performed properly, you should see very little solder as it will have flowed into the joint between the rail and joiner on both side of the rail gap. Be sure not to get any solder on top of the rail head that will have to be sanded or filed off later.

 

[Jacob Z]

Sliding rail works best on the inside. Then you're only cutting rail to length.

Yes, I misremembered (it's been a few weeks since I laid track). I went back and checked my notes and that is the way I was doing it. Which means that the rail that has the worse gap will not slide.

 

[Jaz avalley]

Because I am a complete beginner, this was my first attempt, I was having a hell of a time not getting the rails to pull apart when I curved them (I hadn't yet learned I should have soldered them first) and I had no idea how much I could get away with.

New skills often have nuances that you cannot expect to master immediately, we all go through a learning curve, pun intended.
The important fact is that you are seeking to resolve and improve.
Also sone people find sone skill sets easier than others, on layouts I see people achieving decent results in different manners,
I suspect with practice you’ll improve, I suspect in time you’ll find what you like is the way to resolve the issue.
technically one can argue, that certain manufacturers produce, better product (often more expensive)
Or that you can acquire different length joiners which if the inner is shorter and the outer is longer may prove to be one way,
You could cut a short length and jiggle two near by joiners giving more wriggle room but I would say that would be a last resort plus you then need to solder 4 not 2!
Several knowledgeable modellers have given advice.
You’ll get there, we all do. Practise will improve your game.
Best of luck.