Just started work on my layout

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N

Nucular

Member
I just started 3 days or so on my train layout. Disliking how wood is not perfect, I have so far constructed a table out of framing steel and aluminum posts. Hence the whole table is out of metal. The size of the table is 17 feet by about 14 feet 6 inches. There is 3 feet of walk spacing around the whole table.

Pictures coming soon. Would have took a few but my camera ran out of power before I could take one. So since I had to construct it in the garage so that I could assemble it with bolts and nuts, and then disassemble it so that I could move it into the basement. (Another reason for the metal, it will not go bad if water ever for any reason gets into the basement.) The track will go on wood, but everything around it will be put on foam, that way I can get a nice landscape instead of a flat looking table. I am planning on using spray foam insulation to make mountains and hills.

Anyhow my next step is to purchase HO Bachmann track. I looked at Atlas track but their product looks like it is from the 1950's and very ancient, while Bachmann has decent looking track which I plan to make look more realistic by putting a road bed between two tracks and covering up the dull grey plastic look. Planning on using Bachmann E-Z Command DCC for train operations. While I like the idea of Flex track, my train layout is more stationed around the contemporary times in which track goes for long straight sections and big gradual curves. I will be using the 2 biggest curve radius's that Bachmann offers which to my knowledge is somewhere around the 35" mark. (I would have went with N scale as that is what I grew up with, but it is too small to make stuff for. I enjoy making bridges and other structures out of metal. Plus HO looks good on a shelf when the trains are not in use, and people can actually see them from 17 feet away.)

So far the track plan consists of double track going around in one big circle with a switch yard on one, and a big terminal station that spans both, so that passenger trains can be selected from. I am more of a passenger train person so not much freight train operation on this table. I like high speed trains, so a basic rectangle layout with big curves would allow for high speed train operation. (Might attempt at banking the curves with flex track and match it up to Bachmann track)

Then there will be multiple lines coming out of the center and automatically reversing direction. (Point to Point) It reminds me of the Metra train in Chicago from Union Station that branches out but the trains only go backward and forward.

Anyhow just thought I would share what is going on.
 


Here is a photo of the table so far. Very stong and solid. Then again it is all metal.

TrainTableMetal.png
 
Wow, that looks great! Nice steel work!

Have a question though, am I not seeing something, but how do you access the middle?

Do you have a layout plan drawn? If so, let's see it.

About the track. I agree, Atlas isn't that great. But Walthers Shinhora and Peco make high quality flex track and turnouts. Personally, I use all Peco switches, and for flex I use Walthers. It's a bit more expensive, but well worth it. It's all code 83.

Of course, weathering the rails (using a floquil paint pen) makes it look very real. For ballast, look into a product called Highball, it's made of real crushed rock. Easy to apply, better than the WS stuff.

Here's a shot of my track.
IMG_0456.JPG
 
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There are two openings just off of each side of the center. Most of the table is no wider than 4 feet. So there is plently of reach from both sides. The back of the table is wider at 5 feet 6 inches, but again you can get to it from both sides, so if something happened I could still get to it.

Your track looks excellent. I will keep the Highball stuff in mind.

As for a track plan, most programs out there seem very confusing to use. I generally use AutoCAD to draw my stuff, however with elevations, and such drawing a 2D top view of the track layout would become tricky. I have a lot of extra track from when I was a child laying around, so I plan to just lay it out and devise up a track plan that way. This way I can think about it and change it before I put something down for good.

As for track type, KATO track seems to be looking better to me than Bachmann. KATO also has the superelevated track for the curves which I think is cool. After seeing the table, I decided to switch to N scale. The layout will look vast and massive with N scale, as well as the fact that I have a bunch of older trains that I could still run on the layout and enjoy.

I will most likely come up with a track plan sooner or later, and when it happens I will post a picture of it.
 
The track plan

Here is my rough track plan for my layout.

TrackPlan.png


Some notes:
1. There are 6 individual lines.
2. The red line curves and is mainly based on the mountains.
3. The purple line is ground level. Main Two Lines.
4. Cyan lines are elevated.
5. Yellow line has two paths. You should be able to select which path
with a switch controller (Might be possible to wire the two switches
to same controller, so that the train cannot derail.
6. More of a city in the very front, then transition into smaller
homes, then finally rural and the moutains. Industry in the back of
the layout. A mining company, and most likely a lumber mill. Perhaps
an oil rig also.
 
Very nice! I don't see many people modelling the Tron universe, so this should stand out. :D

I can't tell if there's a hole in the middle. 14' is quite a reach over for building/maintenance. Also, are the lines tied together anywhere? Or are they separate loops? If you're into operations, this might get old fast.
 
I just looked up "Tron Universe" to see what it was all about. Tells you how much I watch TV or watch movies. :)

The colors are just for me to see the plan, the layout is not any form of bright colors. I am not up on the free track planning software, so since work has been slow, I just sketched it up on AutoCAD, which while not perfect, gives me plenty of playing room.

There are two openings. I should have labeled them for the web picture but too late now. You can kind of see where they are, the one is located where there is no track. (Big left space on the left hand side.) The other opening is located right on the other side. It is rectangle with only the cyan track going over about the center of it.

As for inter connections, I have thought about it for awhile, but I decided against it for the time being because:
1. Not all N scale trains are DCC out of the box, and I am not up on adding a decoder in. So in order to move trains from one track to another, I would have to insulate sections of track and I am not a big fan of that, as that removes my ability to run DCC trains, which seem to be growing in popularity. The good thing is that KATO Unitrack isolates power when a switch is thrown a certain way but then if the switches are set to allow a train to pass from one track to another, then I will have two transformers on the same power supply, and while I am not electric expert, I do not wish to burn up an engine or anything. Besides connecting at least some of the tracks would require me to use only one transformer, so while DCC would work fine, analog trains would have a problem, as of the power problem.

2. I have always been big on just watching the trains go around and around for the most part. It is kind of nice to be able to just set it and watch it go by without having to control it constantly. I do enjoy fliping switches and working a train yard, so I incorporated that into the layout.

3. I thought I would venture out a little and put a line that has two different paths, so the yellow one. I have never done this before, but I figured that it would be nice to be able to select a path, and/or be able to change it up once in awhile.

Perhaps if I come across a good way on how to connect them, I will.
 
Hmm.. Given the Tron colours (showing your age RW&C lol) it isn't the easiest plan to follow, but it looks like the three different colored lines don't meet with each other, they all run separately? Also it doesn't look to me like there's any actual operating possibilities, just set the trains off and watch them go round, is that right??

I don't mean to sound harsh and I am always of the mind of each to their own, but given the large space you have you could have an awful lot more operating potential than you seem to have there.. Unless I'm reading the plan wrong of course lol...
 


Scordicus said:
Hmm.. Given the Tron colours (showing your age RW&C lol) it isn't the easiest plan to follow, but it looks like the three different colored lines don't meet with each other, they all run separately? Also it doesn't look to me like there's any actual operating possibilities, just set the trains off and watch them go round, is that right??

I don't mean to sound harsh and I am always of the mind of each to their own, but given the large space you have you could have an awful lot more operating potential than you seem to have there.. Unless I'm reading the plan wrong of course lol...
Click to expand...

I just spent the last 48 hours researching more into DCC. I will most likely connect all the tracks and use Bachmann EZ Command. I am not an expert in DCC yet, so something easy to start with would be good. Ideally I would learn how to use one of the systems that lets you program up to 1000 or so train engines. But right now I do not feel like trying to learn that, when I can start with something basic and learn the more advanced stuff later on. (Seems weird that I would say something like this when I have done basic computer programing, yet DCC seems involved.)
 
If you want to program up to 1000 engines, you'd better get a system a lot more robust than Bachmann. Take a look at NCE and Digitrax starter systems. I believe both are expandable to large systems (which you will need).

I have to disagree with the track. Atlas makes great Code83 flex, I have over 1,000 feet of it on my layout and for the price it can't be beat.
070711016.png

Switches on the other hand are a different matter. Go with Peco, best for the price. Walthers also really good.
 
Nice snap shot of part of your layout. Looks good.

The thing is that I do not have to have all of my engines programed at once. All I really need is 10 engines programed at any given chance. Which I can do. 10 engines alone will cost around 1400 dollars. It will take me awhile to acquire that many.

After that I have a plan for expanding the system pretty easily. It involves using 3 Bachmann EZ Command Centers. Basically all you need to is have a hidden or under the table kind of engine/train storage yard. You have 3 isolated areas. The first being the layout. The second being one of the storage yards under the table, and last one as an additional storage yard. As I have decoding options from 1-10, I can have engines programed into the same numbers. So what I do is have two (#1's, #2's, #3's,...#9's, & #10's). When I want to change out the train, I just pull it off into one of the open storage spaces under the table. As it moves onto another isolated spot, the 2nd EZ Command Center takes control of it. This frees up a spot on the main layout, say train #5. Now another train #5 is located under the table. I now use EZ Command Center #3 to take control of it and move it onto the main layout and hence back onto EZ Command Center #1. Since the engines have the same number programed to them, the computer does not know.

With this method I can double the Bachmann EZ Command functionality.

Now some will ask, how would I say take train #4 off the main and put a #5 train on. Well easy. You pull #4 off into an open spot under the table. Then pull #5 into the 3rd EZ Command spot. Then reprogram it to #4, and move it off.

I do not need some high tech system in order to increase the functionality of Bachmann when I can do it easily myself with existing parts.

As for the track, I am still sticking with KATO, just personal preference. I plan to just blast the road bed and add to it, to make it look more realistic.

Other than that, if you would like to know how I figured the way to double the functionality of Bachmann EZ Command, all you need to know is that I studied philosophy, and have way too much reasoning and thinking skills to figure something like that out. :)
 
Why Mess around??

Nucular said:
After that I have a plan for expanding the system pretty easily. It involves using 3 Bachmann EZ Command Centers. Basically all you need to is have a hidden or under the table kind of engine/train storage yard. You have 3 isolated areas. The first being the layout. The second being one of the storage yards under the table, and last one as an additional storage yard. As I have decoding options from 1-10, I can have engines programed into the same numbers. So what I do is have two (#1's, #2's, #3's,...#9's, & #10's). When I want to change out the train, I just pull it off into one of the open storage spaces under the table. As it moves onto another isolated spot, the 2nd EZ Command Center takes control of it. This frees up a spot on the main layout, say train #5. Now another train #5 is located under the table. I now use EZ Command Center #3 to take control of it and move it onto the main layout and hence back onto EZ Command Center #1. Since the engines have the same number programed to them, the computer does not know.

With this method I can double the Bachmann EZ Command functionality.

Now some will ask, how would I say take train #4 off the main and put a #5 train on. Well easy. You pull #4 off into an open spot under the table. Then pull #5 into the 3rd EZ Command spot. Then reprogram it to #4, and move it off.

I do not need some high tech system in order to increase the functionality of Bachmann when I can do it easily myself with existing parts.
Click to expand...

I can't see this - Why mess around? -- just buy a decent system to start with.

take care ,,,, ken
 
After thinking about it for a little while more. I do not need 3 EZ Command Centers, just two, as I am going to have a big yard on my table. Since KATO switches cut power to sidings, all I need to do is, create an isolated section for the yard. And from there just put the yard on another EZ Command Center computer. When I want to take a train out, I just assign it a number that is open or not currently being used. Then pull the train out. Afterall, I can only have 6 trains operating at any given time, at best possibly 8 if I was to have two trains on the same loop at a time. Even if I used up all 10 values, as long as one came into the yard, and turned off by the switches, then another train could be assinged the open number value.

For those that say that is more confusing, I have to say that I find this easier then one of those more complicated DCC systems.
 
Sounds like

I like the table but ...

Your plan sounds like you have studied philosophy more than DCC.

The other systems are not a lot more complicated, do not be afraid :).

take care ,,, ken
 
Well that is what happens when you have a Masters of Arts in Philosophy and no formal studies in electrical engineering. :)

Happy to hear that you like the table.

I have been looking into other systems. I am just trying to think what I will enjoy the most, and find most useful for myself.

I have been reading the manual for the Digitrax Zephyr Set and have found that it can only control up to 10 trains at any given time. They seem to have other ones that go from 22 to 120 trains. However most of the functions are useless in Digitrax for me, such as being able to control the brake as well as change the brake rate, the ability to control how fast it takes to start and slow down the train, as well as the ability to have multiple controllers, a programing track, and the ability to steal trains and such.

My programing track is going to be the switch yard. Due to power switching, it should be easy to just select which siding I want active and then program that train to whatever number I want. Well it is nice to be able to program a wider range of numbers, which I have thought about. I would end up with a book telling me which numbers go to which engines. I am not good at remembering that kind of stuff. I rather just give engines numbers based on where they are going to be on the layout. For example, the double track would have numbers 1-6 reserved to it, another loop number 7, another 8, another 9, and another 10. When I want to switch a train, I bring it in, turn off the power to it, via the power switches, and assign that number to the next train to be used.

Would I ever want to use more than 10 trains at once is right now at a 95% chance of not happening. I have the option of expanding the layout slightly, if I ever choose to do so, but then I could just use a few more ez command centers and make it work.

NCE does not have that great of a website. I could not find much if anything on it, other than what appeared to be a video on how they make the units. I take it that it works similarly to the other systems out there.

As for DCC control switches, I have looked into those, and more or less figured that the old way with manual switches is just as easy if not easier than using a control remote to activate switches.
 
Before you get too far into this project, I'd re-visit your track plan and such. You don't want a layout with track you can't reach, too tight of curves, especially involving grades, and scenery application, as well as the actual wiring of the track feeds, effects and scenery power(lights in bldgs, motorized windmills, etc.) and of course the turnouts power.

The BEST BOOK is John Armstrong's, "Track Planning for Realistic Operation." The book was written from lessons learned as John fit an "O" Gauge layout in a small basement. You'll need to read through it a few times because the information requires an understanding of his madness. He talks about easements, transition curves and how you transition from level to the grade, and other such technically important things for making sure your track work works! The is the most important aspect of the hobby. If the track is sloppy, poorly designed or poorly layed, even the best engines will not run without derails. If you spend all your time repairing, trying to make bad track work, replacing turnouts and such you'll never get to the enjoyment of building a train, using your switchers, and hook up your loco and take it out on the mainline, and enjoy it going by smoothly and slowly, like the prototype. Scenery is secondary. It hides the wiring and such...LOL!
 


I don't think I better open this thread for awhile. Talk about a new guy getting overwhelmed! YIKES.

(awesome table so far!)
 
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