Exactrail goes direct

[NYW&B]

As a parting comment, when has the HO hobby been better? Look at the quality of stuff available these days, even if you have to hold your nose and offer to buy early and sight-unseen? Okay, you may not find your 50' dreadnought for the Short & Windy Railway, but that can be had with some decals and a hunt for undecs.

Perhaps for the wealthy although more often than not talentless detail hound whose participation in the hobby is largely limited to the buying of the latest high-end items, it may indeed be the best of times. However, for the traditional, multi-skilled, model railroader who has lost his local hobbyshop, most of the traditional and convenient sources of scratchbuilding materials, and 90% of the affordable locomotives and rollingstock that used to be employed as the starting point for a kitbash as a result of what has transpired in the hobby since about 2000, it is rapidly becoming the worst of times.

Buying is not modeling and modeling is what the hobby is all about and was for more than three score years. Rapidly escalating prices keep new people from coming into the hobby and are freezing an increasing number of longtime hobbyist out of model railroading. The truly sad part is that I see no evidence that more than a relatively small element within the hobby, one that only arose in the past decade, or so, drives it today. And it is driving out of any future viability as a hobby.

NYW&B

 

[Rybcon]

I'm not intending to be confrontational, but hopefully just conversational, but are you saying that someone today buying a Walthers plastic model, assembling and weathering it is not really a model railroad enthusiast, because he/she didn't use styrene or bass wood to scratch build it? Or did I misinterpret your post?

 

[Cjcrescent]

I'm not intending to be confrontational, but hopefully just conversational, but are you saying that someone today buying a Walthers plastic model, assembling and weathering it is not really a model railroad enthusiast, because he/she didn't use styrene or bass wood to scratch build it? Or did I misinterpret your post?

OK there fellas, let's not allow this discussion to descend into a my train can beat up your train type of discussion. There's room for everyone in this hobby! While right now RTR dominates, I personally believe that those of us who have the urge to build as much as they can, also have never had it better.

There are several companies that supply resin type kits. There are still companies that offer wooden kits, and there are still those that offer styrene kits. All covering everything except locomotives. Cars, structures, even track can be built from a kit.

A model is defined, in our case, as a miniature of a prototype. Doesn't matter if the model was built by the enthusiast or bought complete. Remember that there is room in this hobby for all of us. While RTR is getting very expensive, there is still a way for newbies to come in without spending an arm and a leg for anything. I believe that RTR is close to a saturation point. Once it reaches that point, I just don't know what's going to happen. Neither does anyone else.

To be a modeler in this day and age depends entirely on the modeler, newbie or old salt like me. It just depends entirely on how you want to to do it. Period.

 

[NYW&B]

Guys, I will simply point out a few longstanding facts about the hobby and then withdraw from the thread completely. I do recognize that somehow, since the very early 2000's when MR went to being largely about RTR (with some change otherwise only very lately as a result of a great loss of readership) and the rise of Internet forums, anything to do with model trains at all has morphed supposedly into a single hobby of model railroading.

This, however, is not and never has been the prevailing view of most longtime craftsman hobbyists. The fact is that from the 1930's until well into the 1990's the hobby was consistantly about taking basic products, whether simple scratchbuilding materials, or the numerous inexpensive loco, rollingstock, or structural kits and using one's skills as a craftsman, his creativity and his knowledge to modify items into unique quality models. Such were a personal accomplishment admired and recognized by other accomplished hobbyists. Anyone recall "model of the month" in MR and their photo gallery of great hobbyist-built models? Where does one see any of that reflected in simply purchasing items, or basically just running such store-bought items?

Exactrail's overall approach and the cartering to a limited well to do element in the hobby, which is increasingly being seen among the manufacturers as their target audience, harms the viability of the hobby itself and like so many of the other changes that have come in the past decade leaves the hobby's potential future ever more questionable.

Want to see what the real hobby looks like? As just one small example, take a look here: http://www.railroad-line.com/

NYW&B

 

[Rybcon]

Gotcha. Additionally it's not only hobbies are getting more expesnive, but hobbiest having less disposable income. 10-15 years ago I turned on the TV and my only expense was electricity. Now, between Internet and DirecTV, it costs $175 a month. Insurance costs, gas prices they all take away from the "smaller" things in life.

 

[Espeefan]

OK there fellas, let's not allow this discussion to descend into a my train can beat up your train type of discussion. There's room for everyone in this hobby! While right now RTR dominates, I personally believe that those of us who have the urge to build as much as they can, also have never had it better.

There are several companies that supply resin type kits. There are still companies that offer wooden kits, and there are still those that offer styrene kits. All covering everything except locomotives. Cars, structures, even track can be built from a kit.

A model is defined, in our case, as a miniature of a prototype. Doesn't matter if the model was built by the enthusiast or bought complete. Remember that there is room in this hobby for all of us. While RTR is getting very expensive, there is still a way for newbies to come in without spending an arm and a leg for anything. I believe that RTR is close to a saturation point. Once it reaches that point, I just don't know what's going to happen. Neither does anyone else.

To be a modeler in this day and age depends entirely on the modeler, newbie or old salt like me. It just depends entirely on how you want to to do it. Period.

Heh heh heh... I agree with you Carey. This same song of "there's no more modeling in model railroading and it's going to ruin the hobby" was sung way back when the Blue Box kits hit the market. Don't believe me? Dust off those smelly old magazines you're hoarding in your basement and read a few of the letters in them. We've heard all this before. Manufacturers will follow the money. They have to. This is not a hobby or a Holy Calling for them, and it seems most of us have spoken. They are just listening and giving us what we ask for, like any good business would. But modeling is alive and well. Just attend a convention, or an RPM meet or two. Kits are alive and well too if my basement shelves are any indication. Yes they are more expensive, but what isn't these days? Let the people who want to buy RTR buy it, and let's not turn our noses up at them. Some will become craftsman level modelers. Some will try. We need them all, even the ones who just "buy things". This is supposed to be fun, so let's not judge people by how they enjoy the hobby. Instead let's try and educate them, and broaden their horizons. Thou shalt not be an elitist snob!

 

[Rybcon]

Heh heh heh... I agree with you Carey. This same song of "there's no more modeling in model railroading and it's going to ruin the hobby" was sung way back when the Blue Box kits hit the market. Don't believe me? Dust off those smelly old magazines you're hoarding in your basement and read a few of the letters in them. We've heard all this before. Manufacturers will follow the money. They have to. This is not a hobby or a Holy Calling for them, and it seems most of us have spoken. They are just listening and giving us what we ask for, like any good business would. But modeling is alive and well. Just attend a convention, or an RPM meet or two. Kits are alive and well too if my basement shelves are any indication. Yes they are more expensive, but what isn't these days? Let the people who want to buy RTR buy it, and let's not turn our noses up at them. Some will become craftsman level modelers. Some will try. We need them all, even the ones who just "buy things". This is supposed to be fun, so let's not judge people by how they enjoy the hobby. Instead let's try and educate them, and broaden their horizons. Thou shalt not be an elitist snob!

Great post!

 

[MGWSY]

I try not to judge anyone’s choice or talents as not everyone can build and paint kits and some just don’t have the time to do it anymore. I am also into RC cars and Boats and I remember in the past you had to build ever RC car from a pile of parts but now they too come RTR. Building everything is fine if that’s your thing but some rather buy RTR stuff and work on other things like building a layout or buildings. Also keep in mind that whether you build your entire layout from scratch out of Cardboard, Wood, Etc or Run Bachmann EZ track on the carpet in the living room almost every non MRR will say you just play with toy trains. Building something just makes someone feel good and say I built that from all these parts and that’s all it is. Some MRR's will give you the oooh's and aaaaah's but many can care less. Keep in mind that it’s just a hobby and that’s all, everyone has their talent in one thing so don’t judge people based on something as buying RTR stuff as for most cars that’s all that is available. Also after building a bunch of car kits from Tichy, Intermountain, P2000, Etc I rather have RTR and use my time to do Electronic installs in locos and build buildings. I still will modify cars to my liking even if they are RTR. That means Replace wheels with Intermountain Semi Scale Wheels, Kadee #158 Couplers, Air Hoses, Coupler Cut Bars, and AEI Tags but I don’t say those that don’t aren’t model railroaders.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Heh heh heh... I agree with you Carey. ...
But modeling is alive and well. Just attend a convention, or an RPM meet or two. ...

At these you can really see that modeling isn't dead at all. Since 1984, at our SER conventions, models entered into the contests have grown substantially. We've gone from 13 models then to over a hundred in the 90's to where the room is packed with models nowadays. Alan, were you here at the convention in 04? 135 models. That was a contest!

 

[santafewillie]

I am not a fan of RTR but I have to admit that the detail level of many of the current products is exceptional. But that's not what this post is about. I feel that ExactRail is doing themselves and the hobby a disservice. Problem is that some of us that have access to good quality LHS's like to see and feel what they are buying rather than buying something over the Internet unseen. I am in that category. I only discovered ExactRail about a year ago and have purchased about a dozen of their products. My LHS's will not carry them any more because of this, so I won't be purchasing them any more. There's plenty of other manufacturers that will fill the void.
willie

 

[diburning]

I try not to judge anyone’s choice or talents as not everyone can build and paint kits and some just don’t have the time to do it anymore. I am also into RC cars and Boats and I remember in the past you had to build ever RC car from a pile of parts but now they too come RTR. Building everything is fine if that’s your thing but some rather buy RTR stuff and work on other things like building a layout or buildings. Also keep in mind that whether you build your entire layout from scratch out of Cardboard, Wood, Etc or Run Bachmann EZ track on the carpet in the living room almost every non MRR will say you just play with toy trains. Building something just makes someone feel good and say I built that from all these parts and that’s all it is. Some MRR's will give you the oooh's and aaaaah's but many can care less. Keep in mind that it’s just a hobby and that’s all, everyone has their talent in one thing so don’t judge people based on something as buying RTR stuff as for most cars that’s all that is available. Also after building a bunch of car kits from Tichy, Intermountain, P2000, Etc I rather have RTR and use my time to do Electronic installs in locos and build buildings. I still will modify cars to my liking even if they are RTR. That means Replace wheels with Intermountain Semi Scale Wheels, Kadee #158 Couplers, Air Hoses, Coupler Cut Bars, and AEI Tags but I don’t say those that don’t aren’t model railroaders.

Agreed!

Your model railroad is just that; YOUR model railroad. You do what makes YOU happy, not what makes other people happy (unless you're one of those who like to show off and derive happiness from showing off... there's a member of my club that does just that).

If RTR makes people happy, then it will sell. If people are happy building kits and making it their own, it will sell. I like to do both, so I fit both markets.

 

[NH Mike]

To get back to the original point of Exactrail selling direct; it doesn't make any difference whether the product is a kit or RTR. There are a large number of small and mid sized manufactureres in this hobby who only sell direct. Their business decision is not to sell through a wholesale distributer or a retail dealer for whatever reason they choose. If a consumer wants or needs their products they will buy them, period. Not being able to see an item on a shelf and pick it up and hold it is no different than buying something out of a catalog. Can anybody truely say they have never bought anything from a catalog or a magazine ad? Maybe we've just gotten too used to our LHS offering a discount and the idea of paying MSRP and shipping doesn't appeal. Look on the sunny side of this picture. If the price point of an Exactrail car or anything else makes it a very slow mover for the LHS, he can now use that shelf space for something with a lot more turnover and let Exactrail sit on the inventory until a buyer steps up.

 

[Cjcrescent]

... Can anybody truely say they have never bought anything from a catalog or a magazine ad?...

I did twice. Once from Micromark, and once from a discounter. I got burned both times! I will not order sight unseen unless I'm very familiar with the product. I only do this on E-bay, and have never gotten burned.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

Thats a pretty gutsy move on Exactrails part. Especially when competitors like BLMA, Tangent and Intermountain have plenty of products that fit right in quality wise. You can pretty much kiss Exactrails ARMN refers goodbye then. No one is going to want to pay retail + shipping for the Exactrail product when the BLMA ones fit in nicely without paying a higher cost.

 

[HF1]

I've given some consideration over the least couple of weeks since the announcement was made by E/R to move to direct marketing.
At first, I was very disappointed and opposed to the decision and voiced my concerns directly to Blaine and Dave Lotz, of Exactrail.

In the final analysis, it is a decision that they have the right to make- positive or negative as it may be.

In my case, I have to drive about 70 miles round trip to buy anything including Excatrail and its something that I haven't given thought to in the past but, that wear and tear on my vehicle, plus the cost of Gasoline at $3.79 a gallon, costs me about $8-9 in gas -on top of the cost of a Exactrail car-let's say a Evolution Series car that retails for 29.95 and at @20% standard discount, costs me $24.
If I buy two cars( I seldom buy just a single car), that's $48 plus $9 in gas to get there and back, PLUS the sales Tax (my rate locally is 8.25%) = $3.
So, in real dollars, the cost of the cars end up being $60 -about the same price I'd be paying retail by buying direct, with orders over $50 receiving free shipping, and delivered to my door.

So, for me, the price is moot, as it will most likely cost me the same as it would if not less than, if I buy them at a train show or at my local hobby discounter.
The only negative facet of this arrangement is that, like so many of you - I've gotton used to the touch, feel and smell of a product before I buy it.
Even with the Hi-Res advertising copy in our month MRR publications showing sufficient detail and appearence, it's no guarantee that it will operate or arrive assembled well or as advertised.

I will continue to buy new releases from Exactrail if it is something I must have, but at a much slower and smaller pace than before, because I'm going to want to 'test' the waters with a sampling first before committing to a large purchase.

This in itself is going to be a problem with the limited production run availability on many products.
It will be interesting to see how Exactrail will market direct on future products and re-runs.

 

[ChevelleSSguy]

I guess the bright side is there is no middle man. Which means better deals directly from Exactrail. At least thats the thought going around that is. Guess only time will tell.

 

[Espeefan]

I guess the bright side is there is no middle man. Which means better deals directly from Exactrail. At least thats the thought going around that is. Guess only time will tell.

LOL! Well you can hope for that, but experience dictates otherwise. Most manufacturers who sell direct sell at the full retail price. Take a quick look around the web and see. The clear reason for doing this was to increase the bottom line. Your LHS typically gets a wholesale discount of 40-50% from the manufacturer. Smaller outfiits may offer a short discount of 30%. Your LHS usually share some of this with you by offering a 10-20% discount off of MSRP. Maybe 30% if they have the volume to justify it. My guess is that Exactrail will likely sell at full MSRP or possibly offer light discounts if something doesn't move fast enough or to avoid those pesky end of the year taxes. Yep, there will be a better deal to be had by someone, and my bet is it ain't gonna be YOU!

 

[el3637]

I bought direct from Exactrail when they released their first cars, as no dealers had them at the time. I also bought some undec 4427s direct, because those were made on a pre-order fill basis. Other than that, I bought pretty much everything else from a dealer - some local, some from Bob Bowditch, and a few others.

I just ordered one of the new Berwick Mopac box cars direct, my first order in the new direct era. I really only wanted one so I didn't make the free shipping cut.

Andy

 

[35tac]

Exactrail direct

LOL! Well you can hope for that, but experience dictates otherwise. Most manufacturers who sell direct sell at the full retail price. Take a quick look around the web and see. The clear reason for doing this was to increase the bottom line. Your LHS typically gets a wholesale discount of 40-50% from the manufacturer. Smaller outfiits may offer a short discount of 30%. Your LHS usually share some of this with you by offering a 10-20% discount off of MSRP. Maybe 30% if they have the volume to justify it. My guess is that Exactrail will likely sell at full MSRP or possibly offer light discounts if something doesn't move fast enough or to avoid those pesky end of the year taxes. Yep, there will be a better deal to be had by someone, and my bet is it ain't gonna be YOU!

Choice is yours or mine, buy Exactrail direct and help the company"Live long and prosper" or dont buy from Exactrail and have them go away. Your choice.
Thanks
Wayne

 

[Espeefan]

Choice is yours or mine, buy Exactrail direct and help the company"Live long and prosper" or dont buy from Exactrail and have them go away. Your choice.
Thanks
Wayne

I don't matter in this particular scenario. While their stuff is nice, it is years beyond my era. I was just predicting the business repurcussions for modelers. I expect their prices to stay the same or go up. We'll see what happens. I hope I'm wrong for the sake of y'all that buy their stuff.