DC operators

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That's good to know. I have been looking at a Bachman GE 45 ton swithcer for use in a lumber mill. Apparently it only comes DCC equipped. I still hate to pay for someting I don't need. Maybe I can find one on ebay, or at a discount hobby store. I have ordered a number of items from trainworkd in the past. There are no decent hobby shops any where near where I live and the internet is my main source. The basics aren't even available locally.
 
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montanan said:
That's good to know. I have been looking at a Bachman GE 45 ton swithcer for use in a lumber mill. Apparently it only comes DCC equipped. I still hare to pay for someting I don't need. Maybe I can find one on ebay, or at a discount hobby store. I have ordered a number of items from trainworkd in the past. There are no decent hobby shops any where near where I live and the internet is my main source. The basics aren't even available locally.
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Yes, I think that the 45 tonner, as well as the 44 and 70 tonners only come with the dual mode decoder. Slightly bigger small locomotives generaly come dcc ready or dcc/sound. Bachmann's S4 comes either way.
 
Here's a couple of pictures of the GE 44 toner. I did this about 15 years ago when they first came out. I just love the small switchers too.
 

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Doughless
Is the new 44 ton different ? I used the power trucks for lots of little critters. Boy that's a drag. Still, I wonder what neat loco's can be built from the new one?

Steve
 
That's good to hear. I hate to lose a good source of parts. I notice that their still available but nowhere near as cheaply as I used to get them.

Steve
 
Still DC but was thinking about DCC for sound - not too worried about controlling a lot of engines since I'll have 2-3 at most at any one time. Then I saw the RailPro radio system.

Big debate on other forums about RP vs DCC and whether RP is just another BetaMax though.
 
Beachbum said:
... Then I saw the RailPro radio system.

Big debate on other forums about RP vs DCC and whether RP is just another BetaMax though.
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I too, have followed some of those debates. I have a BIG problem with RP as it is currently configured. Granted, it does some great things, but why should I have to buy a $100 receiver to run on my friends layout with one of my locos?? (Heaven forbid that he should only own one RP throttle!) I don't do that now, whether it's DC or DCC.

As long as RailPro remains a proprietary system that isn't backward compatible to older products, DC or DCC, it will never replace the current two NMRA standards of DC and DCC. Witness mth's dcs system for an example. Used too, you had to have a pure dcs system to run one of their engines. Now their engines at least have some basic DCC compatibility.
 


For me, the simpler the better. Even though I am not at all interested in DCC, I do have friends out of state who are interested in it, and they have sent me their locomotives to install the decoders for locomotives that weren't DCC ready but are not really into electronics, or in fact electricity. (I have an extensive electronic background) For them I guess it was intimidating, but for me it was just a pain. I thing even if I could afford to spring for DCC, the thought of converting my 30 plus locomotives is scary. I would much rather drink a Bud, or 2, or three. I'm just glad that I don't help these people very often. They not only have to send the decoder and locomotive, but the power supply and throttle so it can be tested. My test track is a 3 foot piece of flex track mounted on a 1 x 4. The simpler the better. I'll stick with DC.
 
I always find it interesting when a new technology enters the scene and the Pro's and Con's arguments for both sides. Although I am new to this hobby, I have both DC and DCC controllers and personally find the DCC to be better. Whether I drew that conclusion as a result of a lack of experience or not I am not sure. Regardless though, and sometimes sadly, new technology will eventually be the norm until something newer emerges, when the same arguments will ensue.

Like it not, DCC is the new technology and it is being embraced by the manufacturers, which means that it will become the predominant form and DC will gradually be removed from our terminology by these companies. Love it or hate it, criticize what it does or does not do - it is here to stay, that is inevitable.

Cheers,

wombat457
 
I always find it interesting when a new technology enters the scene and the Pro's and Con's arguments for both sides. Although I am new to this hobby, I have both DC and DCC controllers and personally find the DCC to be better. Whether I drew that conclusion as a result of a lack of experience or not I am not sure. Regardless though, and sometimes sadly, new technology will eventually be the norm until something newer emerges, when the same arguments will ensue.

Like it not, DCC is the new technology and it is being embraced by the manufacturers, which means that it will become the predominant form and DC will gradually be removed from our terminology by these companies. Love it or hate it, criticize what it does or does not do - it is here to stay, that is inevitable.

Cheers,

wombat457
 
I have nothing at all against DCC. I have operated with it on club layouts and large home layouts, and it's great for those purposes. More operators can be working at the same time, operating multiple trains with ease. For me, personally, I really don't need it as I rarely have others operating with me as there are few operators here where I live. The biggest stumbling block for me is the expense. If I were to install DCC, it would cost me nearly $1,500 to get my entire railroad operating with DCC, let alone the pain of having to install well over 30 decoders, and rewiring my layout. I'll jsut stuck with what I have. For me it works flawlessly and I can spend the grand plus on other thing I need for the hobby.
One of the few problems I have with it is that there have been a few new lovomotives that have come on the market lately that are only available with Dcc or DCC with sound. I am not going to spend what the want for these locomotives when they are equipped only with DCC and have the added expense. Save me money in the long run.
 
montanan said:
I have nothing at all against DCC. I have operated with it on club layouts and large home layouts, and it's great for those purposes. More operators can be working at the same time, operating multiple trains with ease. For me, personally, I really don't need it as I rarely have others operating with me as there are few operators here where I live. The biggest stumbling block for me is the expense. If I were to install DCC, it would cost me nearly $1,500 to get my entire railroad operating with DCC, let alone the pain of having to install well over 30 decoders, and rewiring my layout. I'll jsut stuck with what I have. For me it works flawlessly and I can spend the grand plus on other thing I need for the hobby.
One of the few problems I have with it is that there have been a few new lovomotives that have come on the market lately that are only available with Dcc or DCC with sound. I am not going to spend what the want for these locomotives when they are equipped only with DCC and have the added expense. Save me money in the long run.
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montanan,

Didn't mean to infer that you were "against" DCC, that certainly wasn't my intention here.

I couldn't agree more with you about the cost of "good" DCC trains. $400 + for one train is (in my opinion) over the top. I seriously doubt that anyone could honestly justify that sort of price no matter how good the model may be.

I truly believe that the cost of DCC will have to come down though. Like most new things, computers, cell phones etc, they start out at ridiculous prices in order for the manufacturer to make a killing. As it becomes more the norm, and more people are (almost) forced to buy the item, the price comes down drastically. Hopefully this will be the same with DCC as well. With that being said, hopefully the Model Railway Industry will allow those in the hobby to have a choice of which system they use and continue to provide for those who have no requirement for a DCC system.

Cheers,

wombat457
 
I am DCC now. When I started collecting, I had a total of (2) engines so it was not a big deal. I am now back and looking to expand my collection and the cost of engines DCC ready and getting a DC version and decoder is way up there.

My PRO for DC is the old $20.0 Athearn blue box. They may be noisy, but they ran well for me. Now a RTR with DCC and sound is $200.00 plus. For giggles, I priced out a Santa Fe Super Chief. It had (2) A's and (2) B's. I about fainted when I saw the cost.

I am a lone operator, so having a bunch of trains running is not really going to happen. Yet, there are aspects of DCC that I have begun to really like. No blacks to flip switches, auto reverse loops, easy of wiring.

Each has its benefits and negatives. No one system is right for every one.

I stumbled on the Bachmann hand held wireless unit. Looks like a PSP. That styling will appeal to the younger people out there. It is closer to what they have been using compared to the cabs like MRC uses.

There has been a lot of information for each system in this thread.

Buzz.
 
montanan said:
For me, the simpler the better..... The simpler the better. I'll stick with DC.
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I guess it might depend on the definition of simple. I cannot count the hours I have spent helping people figure out how to do cab control wiring (both common and dual wire type). Then throw in the reversing loops and wyes. Even after they got it wired some of them could never quite figure out how to have the toggles set right before the train entered the block.

Of course I never understood why they found it difficult. Similarly I don't understand why others think DCC isn't simple. Look for any reversing loops, otherwise hook two wires to the rails and go.

To me the "complexity" or non-simple part has just moved from the track to the loco. Even then most of the hard part isn't making the locomotive go but all the fancy lighting effects or sound that many people seem to want now and associate with DCC. I remember trying to put constant lighting and effects into DC locos - now there is some complicated stuff.
 
Boy, I sure sturred up a hotnets nest on this one. I have nothing against DCC at all. As I mentioned, I have run on large club and home roads and enjoyed the capabilities of DCC. A lot more operators were able to run at the same time, and it was a lot easier for everyone to get their jobs done. One big problem with these large layouts initially was having to make the wiring modifications to be able to run DCC. There is no doubt that DCCis here to stay, and over the years the price has been coming down to some extent. It's all up the each individual what they want or need for their layout. For large layouts, DCC is close to being a necessity. Years and years ago I can remember operating on large club layouts and it could really be a hassel with DC if everyone was not in tune with how the layout was operated and where blocks started and ended. DCC does away with all of this. Even though I personally have no interest in DCC, I have been helping others to convert teir older equipment over to DCC because they are not into electronics and don't want to risk botching anything up. For me, it is rather simple, but can be very time consuming depending on the locomotive. I have some smaller locomotives myself that would be difficult to convert because of the lack of space inside the unit. I was barely able to install constant lighting on some due to the lack of space. Manufacturers now are able to plan ahead to make room for the decoders and sound features prior to building them. They have done a great job. Converting some older DC units can really be a challenge. Being that most of my equipment is older, and all custom painted I wouldn't even consider buying new units to replace them in order to be able to run DCC. I just wish that the manufacturers would make the new equipment they are introdicing available in DC only versions too. DCC ready units would be nice, like they were doing a few years back so a decoder could easily be plugged in, but now many are coming out with DCC only and no option for DC. Yes, you can run these new locomotives on DC, but you are paying a premium for these and I myself surely don't want to pay for the upgrade when I have no use for it. There are many others like myself who have lower hobby budgets than others and just don't want to pay extra. Again, I personally have no interest in spending the extra money for something I really don't need. For my layout, which is a point to point layout, with continuous running possible with the use of a hidden staging area, pure DC works great. I don't have an over abundance of track because the track only goes through a scene one time. I have a couple of passing sidings and it can easily be run by 2 operators on the mainline with ease. I again personally don't really need DCC for my particular layout and the best thing is that it works flawlessly. I'll stick with what I have. I didn't want to infer that I am against DCC at all. Different peaple have different needs, and mine does not include DCC.
 
Iron Horseman said:
I guess it might depend on the definition of simple. I cannot count the hours I have spent helping people figure out how to do cab control wiring (both common and dual wire type). Then throw in the reversing loops and wyes. Even after they got it wired some of them could never quite figure out how to have the toggles set right before the train entered the block.

Of course I never understood why they found it difficult. Similarly I don't understand why others think DCC isn't simple. Look for any reversing loops, otherwise hook two wires to the rails and go.

To me the "complexity" or non-simple part has just moved from the track to the loco. Even then most of the hard part isn't making the locomotive go but all the fancy lighting effects or sound that many people seem to want now and associate with DCC. I remember trying to put constant lighting and effects into DC locos - now there is some complicated stuff.
Click to expand...


Constant lighting isn't too hard for a straight DC locomotive. Six diodes that are readily available from Radio Shack and a couple of 1.5 volt light bulbs.
 


Iron Horseman said:
I guess it might depend on the definition of simple. I cannot count the hours I have spent helping people figure out how to do cab control wiring (both common and dual wire type). Then throw in the reversing loops and wyes. Even after they got it wired some of them could never quite figure out how to have the toggles set right before the train entered the block.

Of course I never understood why they found it difficult. Similarly I don't understand why others think DCC isn't simple. Look for any reversing loops, otherwise hook two wires to the rails and go.

To me the "complexity" or non-simple part has just moved from the track to the loco. Even then most of the hard part isn't making the locomotive go but all the fancy lighting effects or sound that many people seem to want now and associate with DCC. I remember trying to put constant lighting and effects into DC locos - now there is some complicated stuff.
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Iron Horseman,

Defining "simplicity compared to complexity" depends on your level of experience. What seems easy (simple) to one may seem "all too hard" for another. For example, I have no idea when it comes to wiring a railway or what a "loop, wye" etc is, let alone how to wire one. To me - all of this is complex and confusing; however, I am also very new to this hobby and without experience in it. Hopefully one day I will have a similar level of expertise as yourself.

With that in mind, and not wishing to hijack this post, perhaps you might be able to help me understand and come to terms with these various aspects?

"Boy, I sure sturred up a hotnets nest on this one"

:) perhaps, but it does make interesting reading and does shed a great deal of light on what DCC compared to DC. Whether it is a hornets nets that has been stirred or not, it is very informative to us new guys!

Cheers,

wombat457
 
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