Con-Car Pass. Cars, converting couplers.

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F

frog

Member
This is a project I am about to undertake.

I have 12 of these type cars, all with the horn hook couplers still.

I plan to convert to kadee couplers with the coupler box attached to the car frame rather than the truck.

A problem I see what might develope is the style of the trucks. The mounting point is not center of the wheels but towards the end of the cars, designed so I would think to off set the long horn hook coupler.

Once this coupler is removed this balance will be off and could be a problem especially around 18 rad curves.

Have any of you converted this type arrangement with sucess?

Right now they derail constantly as they are. Adding considerable weights should help overcome the stress on the trucks caused by the horn hooks.

I have had problems with Con car more than any other type brand pertaining to the truck arrangements.
 
Yes you probably will have trouble with a 18" curve and the couplers mounted to the body. Most all your older companies that made Pass stuff did it that way. They do it that way to allow for the thighter turns. Those cars are on the light side also, so weighting them down will help. I've seen guys trim the horn hooks to make them look better, they cut off the peg sticking down and shorten the one sticking out. Those were designed years ago for the commercial uncoupler attachments from Tyco and other toy companies, not for the modeler who wants something that looked good and worked. So unless your using one of the uncoupler mechanisms for Horn Hooks, you can modify them and still have them couple together good but leave them on the trucks.
 
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They are very light in weight as are, I could probably double the weight of the cars. My scales say about 3.5 oz, think they should be around 6 being a 72 foot car.

They have the pin to mount the truck rather than a screw, not as tight a fit.

I'll add weights first. I would be happy to keep the horn hooks for now as long as weights would solve the problem.

Something to try first anyway as they are in fact too light.
 


If you're going to using these cars on 18" radius tracks, do keep the couplers truck mounted. Body mounting on even these 72' cars will increase their minimum radius up to 24" if not greater. Save the body mounts for a day when you can have more broad curves.
 
That sounds good. I was 2nd guessing the body mounts for that reason.

I'll just add weight, seems like the problem more than anything. Maybe that will hold those off set trucks down.

I am going to check out using curtain weights, the type you get at sewing stores. I think the width will be about right.
 
I don't know if theres enough room to mount it, but Walthers part number 933-997 (swinging coupler kit for Athearn 86' High Cube box cars) may be a solution for your couplers. They were made for Athearn's 86' blue box cars, but they will work on anything provided that it fits.
 
I started working on these cars, taking the tops off to add weight and also to see what I'll be looking at.

Some of the weights installed are more towards the centerline of the car than others. I am not talking of a slight distance but with the middle of the weight being almost halfway to the center of the car instead of over the trucks, over 1 1/2 inches from the ends. I think this is a big factor in the derailing around curves.

Others have the weight on the ends as they should be.

I am trying to remove the weights and reinstall. I don't know what type of glue they used but it is of super quality! Have tried prying gently with no luck, but at least I am having fun.
 
frog said:
I started working on these cars, taking the tops off to add weight and also to see what I'll be looking at.

Some of the weights installed are more towards the centerline of the car than others. I am not talking of a slight distance but with the middle of the weight being almost halfway to the center of the car instead of over the trucks, over 1 1/2 inches from the ends. I think this is a big factor in the derailing around curves.

Others have the weight on the ends as they should be.

I am trying to remove the weights and reinstall. I don't know what type of glue they used but it is of super quality! Have tried prying gently with no luck, but at least I am having fun.
Click to expand...

Rather than trying to remove the factory-installed weights, you might want to just add some more. Check on the NRMA standard (sorry, can't locate mine right now). Even if the cars match the spec, I'll bet they will benefit from a little more. Some hobby shops and Walthers have adhesive-backed weights, but you can make up your own using lead fishing sinkers, loose bullets (if you happen to reload ammunition, a 405 gr .45-70 bullet is about 7/8 oz. in weight). There are any number of ways to stick those on the floor, but double-sided carpet tape or duct tape doubles over on itself, sticky side out works pretty well. Silicone adhesive caulk is another one.

If your cars are derailing while being pulled check to see that the truck-mounted coupler drawbars aren't rubbing on the bottom of the end of the car. Sometimes these can be gently bent down until they will clear the end of the car. Other times you may have to file the bottom of the end of the car until the coupler swings freely.

Another possible source of derailment is the diaphragms catching as the car comes out of a sharp curve. The only solution there is to keep a little gap between the diaphragms on both cars that are coupled together. It may not look prototypical, but it could be your only choice (unless you have room for 36" or 42" radius curves! (Just avoid backing my passenger trains as much as possible, because my ruling curves are 20".

It is possible to cut the drawbars off the trucks, remounting them to the body with a #2-56 screw, with a washer or washers between the drawbar and the bottom of the car. But they may NOT give you the required swing, although I have a suburban bi-level car that is the longest and has the most overhang beyond the trucks, and the are body-mounted.

Unless you are willing to go through a lot of hassle, and unless you plan to do a LOT of pushing, you may be just as well off to leave the couplers truck-mounted.

Hope this helps!
 
I thought about leaving them in and just adding weights but I wanted to see if moving them at the ends would make a difference. I got the old ones off with a little work, I used a small needle nose and a couple of small screwdrivers.

Went through all 12 of my cars, I found 6 of them had the weights put in like I described earlier, about 1 1/2 inches from the ends, too far towards the center of the car and not on the trucks. I removed all, re-installed them, and ran all on my inner loop I have, just a basic oval with turnouts.

I only had one derailment after 10/12 rounds, and that was due to a truck being too snug against the car.

Later I am going to run them on grades on my mainline and see what happens but re-locating the weights made a huge difference.

As for the horn-hooks I am happy to leave them on, truck mounted if possible. I always remove that pin that hangs down, and depending on how they act on grades I might remove the lower part as well, just leaving the "hooks".

But yes, I do need more weight. Can't find my good scales but they are about 4 oz or so on my cheapo scales. So before I do anything to the horn hooks I am going get the weight right. They clear the turnouts so far but you can tell they are riding light going over them.

You are right, bullets would be good, but I don't reload. A 45-70 round?? Sore shoulder just thinking about it, my lever action is the ol' 30-30.

I do have fishing weights, though. I'll either use them or just order some if I can get the short ones. Looked at curtain weights today but they were too small.

Thanks for your input, trailrider, and diburning. Nice to know someone other than me likes to shoot.
 
The NMRA recommended practice is length of car over the couplers in inches, divide by half, add one, and that is how much it should weigh in ounces
 


Found my good scales, cars weighed right at 5 oz as were. I found 12 old weights I had laying around and put one in each car to bring it up to 6 oz. I had planned on adding more on top of the trucks, but the 12 I found fit in the space between the originals. I still might add 1/4 oz over each truck.

Ran the L&N Hummingbird, 11 cars, tonight with no derailments after adding the 1 oz weights. I think I'll be good to go now, these cars had me stumped for a long time.

Thanks to all of you for your help.
 
Another Coupler Option

Another option you may consider for couplers is some that McHenry makes specifically for these cars. They attach the same way the factory ones attach. I have theirs on all of my Con-Cor / IHC passenger cars.
 
Just curious here. What kind of wheelsets are on your cars? I have some (IHC or AHM) with what appear to be 31" plastic. They roll poorly in addition to being lightweight. Walthers always seems out of replacement metal wheelsets.
 
I'll look into the McHenry couplers, Brian. Possible a better look than the horn-hook?

The only other type I have is a Kadee on the rear end of the observation car, purely just for looks. Probably a #38, same type I use on my frieghts.

I am going to have to put some sort of different coupler than horn-hook between my 2 E-7's, they have a habit of uncoupling on a curve every once in a while. Of course then if I decide to run only one loco I have to mate it with a horn-hook.

Trey, the trucks I have are the ones that came with the cars, not top quality, I am surprised they work as well as they do. The axles are very loose where they seat, and mine are the older cars with the pin mount rather than the screw, very delicate to get the seating just right on them.

I have always had problems with Con-Cor trucks, main thing is the matchup where they fit against the car body. Mine are older cars, maybe they have corrected this by now?
 
frog said:
I'll look into the McHenry couplers, Brian. Possible a better look than the horn-hook?

The only other type I have is a Kadee on the rear end of the observation car, purely just for looks. Probably a #38, same type I use on my frieghts.

I am going to have to put some sort of different coupler than horn-hook between my 2 E-7's, they have a habit of uncoupling on a curve every once in a while. Of course then if I decide to run only one loco I have to mate it with a horn-hook.

Trey, the trucks I have are the ones that came with the cars, not top quality, I am surprised they work as well as they do. The axles are very loose where they seat, and mine are the older cars with the pin mount rather than the screw, very delicate to get the seating just right on them.

I have always had problems with Con-Cor trucks, main thing is the matchup where they fit against the car body. Mine are older cars, maybe they have corrected this by now?
Click to expand...

If you're going with knuckle couplers, why not use the metal Kadees? The superliners have 36" wheels. If the axles are sloppy in the trucks, try replacing the wheels with another brand, such as Intermountain.

ICG/SOU said:
Just curious here. What kind of wheelsets are on your cars? I have some (IHC or AHM) with what appear to be 31" plastic. They roll poorly in addition to being lightweight. Walthers always seems out of replacement metal wheelsets.
Click to expand...

Last I checked, my LHS has IHC 31" replacement metal wheels for the IHC/AHM/Rivarossi passenger cars. The wheels are metal and have a metal axle. I don't remember how much they were or whether the LHS still carried them, but they were sitting there gathering dust.
 
Are the Kadee's better than the McHenry? I would be happy to stay with the horn hook but I want to put Kaydees on my E-7's as sometimes I run only one loco instead of the pair. Also I have a couple of L&N GP-7's that were used for passenger service, these already have Kaydees on them.

I checked Kadee's site and found the type for Con Cor Pass cars, they are a type I have never worked with. Are they truck mounted by chance?

I need something that will handle 18 rad curves.
 
Most Kadees are metal and more durable.

What did the Kadee site recommend? When I looked at it, all I got was a blank page telling me to refer to the packaging.
 


Hmm, it doesn't say on this page but if the couplers in the conversion kit aren't metal, then #5s (or #148s if the coupler pocket is too shallow) should work in those pockets. If you need even more "room" for narrow curves, try #146s (metal long shank centerset whisker couplers)
 
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