CMHN's Layout Build

[CMHN]

Hi all,

If any of you read my introduction thread you would know that I was going to build a 4X8 layout. I have since decided to move my layout from my dinning room to my basement. In my basement I have at the moment a 13' X 20' space to use, with additional space in the future. I plan to fill my entire 30'X30' basement up in the future.

I want to have some main line running, switching, and some small towns branch lines. I have never done anything like this before but have wanted to do this for a number of years.

Below is a basic drawing of what my bench will look like.

Its going to have 2 lift outs so I can walk into it to access the entire layout. 26" may seam narrow but its the width of my hallway in my house so I figured it would work. The top and right side will be against walls, The left side can be extended in the future another 5' and parts of the bottom can be extended in the future. But I think I will have plenty of bench to keep me busy for a few years.

What do you guys think about the basic bench?

P.S. This will be a HO layout.

 

[LoudMusic]

I think most people would recommend avoiding lift outs and starting small if you've never done this before. The main thing is to stay motivated, and a project with added frustration can be a real demotivator. Liftouts cause added points of failure and physical fatigue on you and your layout. Building a large layout can be overwhelming and not seeing significant progress can demotivate as well. I would plan a layout that allows you to get something up and running fairly quickly, experience the various aspects of the hobby that you're interested in, and expand once you've got the hang of it.

But moving from the dining room to the basement is a great idea. You'll have a lot more space and freedom in that room and likely fewer wall obstructions. Assuming it's a typical basement arrangement it's even possible the layout could go behind the stairs and you could walk down into the middle of the layout without having to duck under or lift out anything. But that's for you to engineer
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Beijing-Benz Daimlerchrysler Automotive Specifications

 

[fast_ian]

Hi,

My 02c, FWIW - The following based on reading, not experience btw;

- Liftouts are a PITA to be avoided if it all possible. [IMHO]
- If they're in place you're kind of stuck in one "avenue" - I think with this size you're going to want to walk around with your train.
- I (think!) I'd go with the "E" shape, with a view block down the center of the middle leg.
- Use, say, the top left as one end of the line and that runs into a loop in the center and then back to the other end at the bottom.
- I'd definitely make the aisles wider - You say the whole thing could be "taller" and wider aisles would allow two operators to pass each other without "pain".

As I said, no experience, just my 02c.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[CMHN]

After some consideration and some feedback from members I changed my plan a little.

As you can see I will be doing my layout in Phases, This way I don't get burnt out trying to do a huge layout.

Phase I will be the 4'X8' table I have built and the 34"X184" workbench that is mostly build.

Phase II will be another 4'X8' table attached in the center.

Phase III and IV will be 32" wide X 12' sections on the top and bottom.

The reasoning behind the sizes I have used is to utilize sheets of plywood. With 32" wide benches, I can get 12' out of one 4'X8' piece of plywood and still have plenty of room for scenery and fun.

I changed my walkways to 36" wide to allow enough room for a couple people to fit at the same time. After all this is going to be a family hobby.

I also started a website/blog to keep track of my progress. I have it linked in my signature below.

 

[fast_ian]

*Much* better!..... However;

- You say this is going to be "a family adventure", which is great, but how old are the kids? Your original plan would have allowed lots of "continuous running" which a lot of folk (esp kids?) enjoy. The new design won't allow that, at least not the way you had it before. [You could put a loop into the middle section, but that's it....]

You may want to increase the width of either the top or bottom legs to allow a 180deg turn to be made - Minimum radius is "arguable", but 18" is as tight as I'd go - The "purists" will say 24" or more, and Atlas does make 15"s IIRC, but then you're really limited as to loco choice.

Good luck - FWIW, I reckon you'll get more views & comments if you document your efforts here rather than your own blog.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[CMHN]

Good luck - FWIW, I reckon you'll get more views & comments if you document your efforts here rather than your own blog.

Cheers,
Ian

Yea I figured I would, I plan to keep posting on this forum as well as another one, but I made a blog basically for my family and friends to follow, as well as anybody else who may stumble upon it.


My son is 7 and my daughter is 9.

18" radius turns is what Im going to use, the engines that I presciently have run ok on that radius, I know I have heard people saying run 24" or more but I will be fine with the 18" radius.


I plan to put a couple loops in the middle of the center and have the right side, top and bottom legs as branch lines and rail yard. When I'm done I will have a little over 18' to have a continuous running main line, and a bunch of branch lines to go to industries, towns and switch yards.

 

[CMHN]

What does everybody think about this bench? It will give me plenty of room to move around with friends inside the layout, and still give me room on the layout for some great multi-train mainline running.

 

[402drvr]

I like your most recent bench best. I think it may give you the room to up the radius on those turns. I know what you have now will run the 18" radius fine but this is a long term project. In your case very long due to the size of it. You may change your mind in the future. Put in 24" and you can run just about anything. (maybe a few exceptions). I think you could do it without expanding the bench much more.

I too am planning a fairly large layout and trying to build in stages. In my case I am also building with the express intent to have to move the layout eventually. So, it is being built in sections that are light and easy to move. Just a thought.

 

[402drvr]

Oh yeah be careful with those 4' deep sections. Might be tough to reach without an access of some sort.

 

[fast_ian]

Why is it so much easier to critique others than work on one's own plan I wonder?....

I like your most recent bench best.

+1, but a further "02c";

- You're now "wasting" a ton of space in the middle.... You've gone from narrow aisles up to a vast empty area.
- There's still only one area where you could do a continuos loop, even with 18" radius.
- I'll copy a rough layout from John Armstrongs book that I think could work to give you another idea.

While I agree with others that this is a *big* project, I'm also going to question your phased approach - Are the lines going to simply stop at the end of the bench? Or, if you're going to loop back, this will need ripping out when it's extended - It can be done, but I can't help thinking you should get all of the benchwork done up front - It may take years to get the track covering the whole thing, but at least you'll know where it's going.....

Quick sketch coming next, good luck,
Cheers,
Ian

 

[CMHN]

Why is it so much easier to critique others than work on one's own plan I wonder?....



+1, but a further "02c";

- You're now "wasting" a ton of space in the middle.... You've gone from narrow aisles up to a vast empty area.
- There's still only one area where you could do a continuos loop, even with 18" radius.
- I'll copy a rough layout from John Armstrongs book that I think could work to give you another idea.

While I agree with others that this is a *big* project, I'm also going to question your phased approach - Are the lines going to simply stop at the end of the bench? Or, if you're going to loop back, this will need ripping out when it's extended - It can be done, but I can't help thinking you should get all of the benchwork done up front - It may take years to get the track covering the whole thing, but at least you'll know where it's going.....

Quick sketch coming next, good luck,
Cheers,
Ian

I was thinking the same thing, I was going to just do it in phases, but I may build the whole bench and then just tinker way at it.

As for the wasted space in the middle, its not any bigger square foot wise as the isles really. I just put the 2 isles together to have enough room for me and my family to be inside the layout playing with switches and running trains.

 

[fast_ian]

OK - Here's a quick rendition of one of Mr Armstrongs ideas. It's pretty rough, but the circles are 24" radius. Some of the aisles are a little narrow, but hopefully you get the idea.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[LoudMusic]

OK - Here's a quick rendition of one of Mr Armstrongs ideas. It's pretty rough, but the circles are 24" radius. Some of the aisles are a little narrow, but hopefully you get the idea.

Cheers,
Ian

Unfortunately this design does not allow continuous running. The peninsula ends need to be large enough to run a loop around. With his allotted space that becomes problematic.

I've found in my past attempts at designing layouts for rooms that I try to cram too much benchwork into too small a space. In the future if I am presented with space for a layout again I will be scaling everything back so that I have a comfortable environment with reliable track / trains for, what I think will be, a more enjoyable experience.
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Magic Flight Vaporizer Homemade

 

[402drvr]

Why is it so much easier to critique others than work on one's own plan I wonder?....



+1, but a further "02c";

- You're now "wasting" a ton of space in the middle.... You've gone from narrow aisles up to a vast empty area.
- There's still only one area where you could do a continuos loop, even with 18" radius.
- I'll copy a rough layout from John Armstrongs book that I think could work to give you another idea.

While I agree with others that this is a *big* project, I'm also going to question your phased approach - Are the lines going to simply stop at the end of the bench? Or, if you're going to loop back, this will need ripping out when it's extended - It can be done, but I can't help thinking you should get all of the benchwork done up front - It may take years to get the track covering the whole thing, but at least you'll know where it's going.....

Quick sketch coming next, good luck,
Cheers,
Ian

I am looking at a phased approach as well. My plan is to basically build one module at a time. However, I want continuous running so in the area not under construction I will be building about a six inch shelf all the way around the wall. This will allow enough room for two tracks, allowing my continuous running, but won't be real expensive to build. As one module is completed I can move to the next and simply remove that portion of shelf. That said my layout is likely to be a shelf layout all the way around anyway so the replacing is easier in my case.

 

[fast_ian]

Unfortunately this design does not allow continuous running.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but why not?

The peninsula ends need to be large enough to run a loop around. With his allotted space that becomes problematic.

Agreed on the first part - At 24" radius, at least two of the areas drawn are big enough, are they not? In fact, if the "center" area was made smaller, the ends could get bigger yet. [It was a pretty quick sketch Plus, CMHN has access from the left and front I believe.]

I've found in my past attempts at designing layouts for rooms that I try to cram too much benchwork into too small a space. In the future if I am presented with space for a layout again I will be scaling everything back so that I have a comfortable environment with reliable track / trains for, what I think will be, a more enjoyable experience.

I don't disagree - For sure I'm guilty of "underscaling" in my mind

I think a 30" aisle, with some short bottlenecks of ~24" coupled with a max 24" reach requirement should be enjoyable (? - Again, I'm asking, not arguing!)

Cheers,
Ian

 

[LoudMusic]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but why not?

Agreed on the first part - At 24" radius, at least two of the areas drawn are big enough, are they not? In fact, if the "center" area was made smaller, the ends could get bigger yet. [It was a pretty quick sketch Plus, CMHN has access from the left and front I believe.]

I don't disagree - For sure I'm guilty of "underscaling" in my mind

I think a 30" aisle, with some short bottlenecks of ~24" coupled with a max 24" reach requirement should be enjoyable (? - Again, I'm asking, not arguing!)

Cheers,
Ian

Whoa! I was totally looking at it wrong! I had the benchwork as the isle and the isle as the benchwork. Though flipping it does make the isles rather narrow ...

Carry on!
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Uncle Fucks Nephew

 

[fast_ian]

Whoa! I was totally looking at it wrong! I had the benchwork as the isle and the isle as the benchwork. Though flipping it does make the isles rather narrow ...

Carry on!

"Oops!"......

Here's a slightly better version - Again, 24" radius, but now we've got >30" aisles as well.

One potential "issue" is how do the kids "follow the trains" around the layout? [This applies to all ideas so far of course....]

Cheers,
Ian

 

[LoudMusic]

Well assuming the main line doesn't make deceiving tunnel maneuvers it would just follow along a few inches from the edge of the benchwork. Viewer / operators could walk with trains anywhere they go. I'm not sure I understand where the difficulties are in following the train.
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EXPERT INSURANCE

 

[Beachbum]

Well assuming the main line doesn't make deceiving tunnel maneuvers it would just follow along a few inches from the edge of the benchwork. Viewer / operators could walk with trains anywhere they go. I'm not sure I understand where the difficulties are in following the train.

They'll have to run back around the peninsula to pick up the train after it rounds the curve, assuming no reverse loop on the bubble and clockwise running for example. But that might be a small inconvenience, depending on several factors.

You might want to consider a sectional or non-sectional around the walls / donut layout for continuous running but that would require a lift-out or duck-under which some folks find problematic. You could always add a central peninsula later, sort of like Barrow's Cat Mountain and Santa Fe version 2 (3?). Take a Google at the Heart of Georgia ("A better beginner's layout") for ideas.

 

[fast_ian]

They'll have to run back around the peninsula to pick up the train after it rounds the curve, assuming no reverse loop on the bubble and clockwise running for example. But that might be a small inconvenience, depending on several factors.

While true, that wasn't my "issue" - Kids can move pretty darn quick when needed! [They'd certainly get round the peninsula faster than me!]

I was thinking more about height constraints - On my 8x4 "test track" for example there were little step-stools on both sides and life was good for 'em.

I guess think about layout *height* and their viewing angles versus a "grown ups" view was my point - You could build some "pull out" steps at strategic locations for example.

Cheers,
Ian