Why is the hobby in trouble?


Thanks for the read.

Though I don't really see a big difference between your "fact" based article and the majority of posted "opinions" - less kids are getting involved.

I agree, but they are more observations than opinions.

For kids growing up, the competition keeps getting better and better. If you broke it down, a train runs around in a circle VS. a thousand+ multiplayer global modern warfare game on a 1080P resolution tv... That's what the majority sees, gnat attention span.
 
if i am of any indication: i'm not yet 30 and i don't subscribe to any MRR mag. nor i subscribe to any mag actually. the articles are leaving a lot to be desired, writers can not express deserved negative points of products made by sponsors/bribers. and good third of a mag itself is pure commercial adds which i'm not interested to see.
 
a train runs around in a circle VS. a thousand+ multiplayer global modern warfare game on a 1080P resolution tv... That's what the majority sees, gnat attention span.

Heh. Oh so true, but you are missing something important.

A train may move in a circle, but variations are easy to make, you can change the layout.

A video game as stuck 'maps' it is not possible [on a console] to make a new 'map' so you are stuck with the same thing on repeat.
 
I will elaborate.

A train is a player on a map, an extension of ourselves that we care for.
A avatar on a game is a player on a map, again an extension, but not something we care for.

Both offer action, although one is violent and the other peaceful.
Both offer varied landscapes and beauty.
Both offer social interaction, though the quality of the communication in a game is debatable.

One offers a sense of accomplishment that is lasting, and the other quickly attained, but also quickly lost.
One offers long term gratification with tangible results, and the other instant gratification with virtual items.

In the end, it is all personal choice.
 
Thanks for the read.

Though I don't really see a big difference between your "fact" based article and the majority of posted "opinions" - less kids are getting involved.

The differences are dramatic. What is presented in my post represents actual published information, some of it from surveys conducted by the hobby's leading magazine publisher and based on samplings of thousands of hobbyists over 50 years. Likewise, recognition of actual trends and causation of change and their likely impact on the hobby's future, are only possible from examining such volumes of data, gathered over extended periods of time.

Personal opinions, on the other hand, are essentially worthless in answering the question, "Why is the hobby in trouble?" since they are based on nothing more than the limited observations and speculation of a single individual, at best derived from a tiny and not even necessarily random sampling, as well as being weighted by personal bias.

NYW&B
 
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The differences are dramatic. What is presented in my post represents actual published information, some of it from surveys conducted by the hobby's leading magazine publisher and based on samplings of thousands of hobbyists over 50 years. Likewise, recognition of actual trends and causation of change and their likely impact on the hobby's future, are only possible from examining such volumes of data, gathered over extended periods of time.

Personal opinions, on the other hand, are essentially worthless in answering the question, "Why is the hobby in trouble?" since they are based on nothing more than the limited observations and speculation of a single individual, at best derived from a tiny and not even necessarily random sampling, as well as being weighted by personal bias.

NYW&B

And yet they support the same conclusion.
 
The differences are dramatic. What is presented in my post represents actual published information, some of it from surveys conducted by the hobby's leading magazine publisher and based on samplings of thousands of hobbyists over 50 years. Likewise, recognition of actual trends and causation of change and their likely impact on the hobby's future, are only possible from examining such volumes of data, gathered over extended periods of time.

Personal opinions, on the other hand, are essentially worthless in answering the question, "Why is the hobby in trouble?" since they are based on nothing more than the limited observations and speculation of a single individual, at best derived from a tiny and not even necessarily random sampling, as well as being weighted by personal bias.

NYW&B

And yet they support the same conclusion.

No, personal opinion can not be said to support any conclusion. It is simply an observation, nothing more, which may or may not happen to be accurate, and from which no conclusion can be drawn about why the hobby is in trouble, how the current situation came about, nor how it is likely to evolve in the future.

A post presenting published facts, figures, and associated info will allow reasonably reliable conclusions to be reached about a situation, because detailed, verifiable, background information is provided from which to base that conclusion on.

Big difference.

NYW&B
 
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This thread is really .. REALLY .. weird when you have (perhaps) .. had one .. too many beers .....
 
Seems like this gets bought up again about every two years. Since the original post, it appears the hobby has still survived. :) I don't think any of us has a good crystal ball, so I have no idea what will happen 20 or 30 years from now. Luckily, I'll be dead, so I'm counting on you young guys to keep things going. :D
 
It's funny to me how this thread started almost 5 years ago, when getting back into model railroading, building a room-sized layout, acquiring tons of rolling stock and locomotives, running things on DCC, installing DCC and sound in my locomotives, learning soldering, about electricity, industries, and how railroads work wasn't even on my radar or a glimmer in my eye.

Want to keep the hobby going? Find young folks and inspire them. Don't judge them for wanting and buying an Exactrail 50' waffle box over a Wrighttrak resin model, or using prebuilt structures in combination with kits. To demand purity and exclusivity/elitism is to perhaps attract only a small group of folks, while alienating the rest. Then, that small group you attracted will break up at some point, because the self-imposed desire for total realism is unobtainable.

In other words, I'm enjoying what I have, what I have learned and am learning, and look forward to running my railroad, and perhaps inspiring my daughter or nephew or other kids and adults into pursuing, even if in passing, a neat part of my life.
 
It's funny to me how this thread started almost 5 years ago, when getting back into model railroading, building a room-sized layout, acquiring tons of rolling stock and locomotives, running things on DCC, installing DCC and sound in my locomotives, learning soldering, about electricity, industries, and how railroads work wasn't even on my radar or a glimmer in my eye.

Want to keep the hobby going? Find young folks and inspire them. Don't judge them for wanting and buying an Exactrail 50' waffle box over a Wrighttrak resin model, or using prebuilt structures in combination with kits. To demand purity and exclusivity/elitism is to perhaps attract only a small group of folks, while alienating the rest. Then, that small group you attracted will break up at some point, because the self-imposed desire for total realism is unobtainable.

In other words, I'm enjoying what I have, what I have learned and am learning, and look forward to running my railroad, and perhaps inspiring my daughter or nephew or other kids and adults into pursuing, even if in passing, a neat part of my life.

Good Posting!
 
Personally I'm not at all worried about the "hobby". I think it will not only survive but get more interesting. And I really believe the greatest achievements in modeling are still ahead.

I got started as a 5 y/o with the traditional Lionel set around the Christmas tree on Christmas morning. This was in 1961. My set was that US Army version with the blue loco and rocket launchers. It was very formative.

After retiring from the US Army ( I said it was very formative) I had too much time on my hands. So I went back for another college degree, this one in mechanical engineering. I'm 53 now. All four of my kids have participated to one degree or another in model RR.

Model railroading's present incarnation as a specialized hedge fund benefiting a few insiders is doomed. This is not an outcome I'm worried about, either. I don't have any dogs in that fight. From the viewpoint of my 9 y/o that "hobby" is counterproductive at worst and irrelevant at best.

We know how this hobby "developed" starting in the later 1960s. The brass loco importers paved the way. They were basically labor arbitragers offshoring manufacture to Japan, later to Taiwan and now to mainland China, buying lots of ad space in the prestige hobby press and pocketing the difference. This and demographics produced a financial bubble not that different from the late real estate bubble.

It became a vast exercise in model con$umeri$m. Buy manufactured models, then make custom scenery to display these models.

"Want to keep the hobby going? Find young folks and inspire them."

Many young folks today are in about the same situation as young people were in the early 1930s. They have far more time, energy and imagination than $$$. This is not a demographic that appeals to the shrinking prestige model RR press and its advertisers. Meanwhile Walmart and the schools already spend trillions training kids how to be consumers of imported plastic. They don't need any extra practice with Model RR Con$umeri$m. To be clear they can't afford very much. The real incomes of families with 10-18 year olds have been stagnant or declining for a decade. What you think depends on whose statistics you believe.

To the extent it has one I think the future of this hobby has to be (re) built around learning to make things again. And making things using updated tools and techniques. Tools like the personal computer, CAD programs and do-it-yourself CNC machines (Computer Numerically Controlled). Look at "Make" magazine. Watch "Mythbusters" and several other "builder" programs on the tube. Look at any of 100,000 instructional techy vids on Youtube.

One of the first model railroading "books" I got was the 1950s "Practical Model Railroading", first published by Kalmbach in 1952. This included a picture of the layout at Bell Labs. It's been awhile since model railroading was associated with that kind of technological leading edge.

People complain about R/C flying "stealing" all the kids. I suggest going into an R/C hobby shop. You'll notice very few ready to run aircraft are offered. What you primarily see is a store full of "parts" and "tools" to use in "building" r/c aircraft. Unsurprisingly, small low cost CNC machines have been far more quickly adopted by R/C hobbyists.

The typical model railroad hobby shop now is a near mirror image. The balance of ready to run and diy building is reversed. This is sad when you know that one of the first DIY CNC lathe articles was written by an electrical engineer who was also a model railroader. He adapted an old Atlas Press 6" lathe to automated computer control (CNC) so he could mass produce the wheels he needed for his narrow gauge model RR project. The article appeared in a very low circulation pub, I think Model Engineer. Incidentally, far more complicated circuit projects were presented by MR as far back as the late 1970s.

This particular lathe article was clearly not something Atlas (the model RR company), Athearn or Walthers would favor Kalmbach or Carstens running. If they did that what would be next? A four part series on designing and machining plastic injection dies to produce a custom run of model parts in a small home built die injection molder? Plastic vacuum formers?

http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/inject/index.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/injatt/index.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/vacf/index.html


Dozens of plans are readily available for 3-axis CNC machines carrying Dremels, Rotozips and trim routers around 2' work tables. The total cost to build is about $300 or so including stepper motors and driver boards.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/29/how-to-build-your-own-cnc-machine-part-1/

If you want to really dumpster dive. Junked laser printers and copy machines are the best source of stronger stepper and servo motors. And what's that? Acid etching and drilling circuit boards? No! You're supposed to BUY DCC controls from Digitraxx. Everyone knows this.

http://www.solsylva.com/

Lots of things can be done with this. Including routing your own HOn2 milled roadbed sections for Maine Two Footers, if you're so inclined.

http://www.crankorgan.com/plans.htm

The "Jester" was specifically designed for pocketing aluminum blanks for plastic die injection.


Other realities intrude here. For instance, once a hobby acquires a large base of small CNC lathes, CNC routers and CNC mills, and hobbyists with enough expertise in CAD and CAM, what then? Dies, molds and near instant hobby micro-manufacturers are close behind.

The model railroad manufacturers and distributors (a/k/a "advertisers") have always resisted articles that spill too many beans. Unimats were long advertised in those small corner ads. And it was possible to read MR and RMC for years without really learning what this obscure European device could do. Model Rectifier Corporation's entire existence is predicated on keeping hobbyists low skilled, rather than doing it themselves as generations before in the 1920s - 1950s did. And as they could do now.

To relate this to real life. Even in the current dismal economy CNC machine tool programmers can readily find work. The master key to this field is COMMAND OF CAD PROGRAMMING. Really learning to draw with CAD takes some time. It's why a lot of excellent manual machinists can't cross over to CNC.

Consider a hobby defined in such a way that a young man spends six-eight years doing CAD designs and then making parts from these designs with hobby level CNC machines. This "hobbyist" will have very solid CAD and CNC skills by age 18.

The same depth of "roll your own" is possible on the electronics side.

It's pointless to blame Kalmbach, Carstens or the other publishers for the present state of affairs and focus on railroad model consumerism. They have fixed overhead to pay. They followed a specific consumerist publishing business model. Selling advertising to businesses who sell to the reader-consumer is a critical part of this plan. This was decided on the day A.C. Kalmbach printed his first run and then went to mail it to hobby dealers.

But the internet wasn't online that day...

And in the case of Model RR these advertisers are almost entirely manufacturers and distributors of manufactured models. They disfavor articles that could turn readers from consumers into non-consumers and even into competitors. Ditto for articles that will redirect cash flow towards Mouser, Digikey, stepper motor vendors, Enco, etc. Commercial publishers and editors cannot go to perma-war with their advertising bases.

This set the stage for model railroading's Age of Scenery. John Allen, Bill McClanahan, Dave Frary, Malcolm Furlow, George Selios... All fantastic masters btw. Build spectacular scenery on which to display your manufactured model collection.

I do think blame can be generously distributed to the leaderships of the NMRA for the last two decades. They had far less excuse for allowing themselves to be co-opted into extreme consumerism by the manufacturers and publishers.

"perhaps inspiring my daughter or nephew or other kids and adults into pursuing, even if in passing, a neat part of my life."

There's a lot more to model railroading than pure tech. But if learning useful life skills don't reenter the equation in a big way then I do think the "hobby" will sink into very deep obscurity.
 
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Great post CharCad, and I think you're right on target. It's certainly the directiong I'm going. For those interested in building stuff, the investment needed to purchase a fleet of high-quality RTR rolling stock can be judicuiosly used to get some awesome tools and equipment (or the tools to make your own equipment).

For many of the models that I'm currently working on for myself, or am in the planning stages on, becoming a "micro-manufacturer" is just a natural extension of the process. I agree that the model rr press seems hesitant to run in-depth articles on producing models. How many articles or threads have you seen where a scratchbuilder or kitbasher working on say a piece of rolling stock refers to their assembly-line method to make several of an item? Make one master, a silicone RTV mold, and cast them in resin, people! Then make some more and sell 'em as craftsman kits.

Unfortunately, the articles I've seen in model rr mags about things like resin casting have been very basic, more like ads for entry-level product offered through Micro-Mark, and I think these articles sometimes do more negative than good; a few bad experiences can make a person give up on making and using silicone molds pretty quickly, while the articles usually fail to mention how much better the process works when using a vacuum-degassing chamber, and that one can be bought or made for less than $200 - one RTR engine with decoder!

I think rapid prototyping is going to make a huge impact on the hobby as prices continue to fall and it becomes more commonplace. I know that most people reading this haven't seen a High-Resolution SLA part in person, but the quality has greatly improved over the past few years, and getting better at a quick pace. And, as CharCad mentions, you can DIY if so inclined - check out this YouTube video of a homemade 3D printer...pretty cool:
Homemade 3D Printer

One of the projects I'm working on right now is a series of 1/12 scale switch stands. These will be investment cast in brass (in my workshop), and fully functional. On my HO scale layout, these will be mounted on 1/12 scale switch ties with scenery details (a mini-vignette), which will in turn be mounted on a shelf at the front edge of the layout, several inches below layout level. They will be used to operate switches on the layout which would be operated by hand on the prototype - I think tactile action of lifting the lever (which will have a bit of heft), rotation, and setting the points will add a lot to the 'feel' of operating the railroad.

And I think that these switch stands will be really cool - and that I'll be able to sell them. Few are probably interested in using them like me, but as an object, sitting on the desk (maybe used as a paperweight), or anywhere else, I think they would just be a nice thing to own. And there's no difference in the process between making a handfull for myself and going into production of small batches or made to order.

I've got all the 3D modelling for the first one done as a Nurbs model created in Rhino - getting very accurate dimensions wasn't too hard, as the prototype is literally sitting in my backyard. In the future, I'll be making others, as there are more than a handful of popular styles. I've attached a few screen-shots of the work to the post.

From the 3D model a 3D mold positive will be generated in SolidWorks, and sent to a friend at a rapid prototyping company that can make masters for the silicone rubber molds. Then wax dupes can be made for lost-wax casting - in a killer little homebuilt furnace found on craigslist.

So do I think the hobby is in trouble? No. Do I think certain business models or status quo are in trouble? Yes. I just don't think the hobby as it stands today is sustainable, for many of the reasons stated by others, but I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing. And our hobby does bring in new generations - it just does it in different ways. Ways that may be flying under the radar, or even scoffed at...try Googling "model train graffiti" - some of you may not like that aspect of the hobby, but it's another doorway to people that might not normally make this their hobby, and will help keep it alive in the future.

- Chris
 
I'm am 14 now and have been in the hobby since I was 2. My grandpa had the biggest modelrailroad in Milwaukee in the 70's through the late 90's. He got me into it and I know 5 other kids from my modelrailroad club that are just getting into it, but that is in Milwaukee. Milwaukee is a modelrailroading city; the NMRA started here, the Walthers showroom is here. I guess it depends where you are
 
Chris,

That's some sweet rendering work with Rhino. Very nice. I'm just an AutoCAD putzer myself. Which is the worst program in the world to do rendering work with, as everyone knows. Blender 3D however is on my list. (For general information, fairly comparable programs to Rhino3D are available for :DFREE.:D Click download, install, learn, use...

Big list of freebies. http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cadcam.htm

US Army BRL-CAD (Ballistics Research Laboratory) is the premier open source CAD programs. Does 3D CAD drawings and imports/exports all standard CAD formats: http://brlcad.org/

http://www.blender.org/ Open source 3d rendering program.

For those interested in building stuff, the investment needed to purchase a fleet of high-quality RTR rolling stock can be judicuiosly used to get some awesome tools and equipment (or the tools to make your own equipment).

Here's some of "our" own forgotten history. http://www.lathes.co.uk/unimat/ It appears that Unimat's very first US lathe advertisement appeared on "page 60 in the October 1954 issue of Model Railroader Magazine." Imagine that! At one time the biggest market for small machine tools was considered to be model railroading.

Make one master, a silicone RTV mold, and cast them in resin, people! Then make some more and sell 'em as craftsman kits...Unfortunately, the articles I've seen in model rr mags about things like resin casting have been very basic, more like ads for entry-level product offered through Micro-Mark,

My wife & I have done some of this. RTV rubber & two-part thermoset plastic resins are pricey propositions. No doubt why the commercial hobby press promotes them. More product for Walther and retailers to push. These days I'm infinitely more interested in plastic die injection using polystyrene pellets ($5.95/lb even at "hobby retail" pricing) and recycled polycarbonate scrap (plastic soda bottles). The trick is being able to make the die mold tooling. That means a small CNC lathe and a stiff little CNC router able to mill aluminum, or at least wood masters for hydrocal tooling. A little known fact: hydrocal plaster makes fine die injection tooling for limited production runs.

Designing a CNC Project Lathe in the 3.5" swing Sherline size class is one of my priorities. With a total parts cost of no more than $250.00. i.e. 10% of the price of a CNC equipped Sherline lathe.

fail to mention how much better the process works when using a vacuum-degassing chamber, and that one can be bought or made for less than $200 - one RTR engine with decoder!

"Made for less..." This is the ever-present tension in the shrinking commercial M-R press and its shrinking base of commercial advertisers. The greater the potential grows for computer assisted micro-scale manufacturing, the greater the danger to the entire economic foundation of existing 20th Century model railroading. This model was "Collect Ad Fees - Sell Magazine - Consumer Reads Ad - Buys From Advertisers (preferably via hobby shop) - Repeat".

Again, no point for anyone to complain now. All of this was implicit that historic day in 1934 when Al Kalmbach reputedly took a street car to a Milwaukee post office to mail the first issue press run of M-R that he carried under his arm. He was far from the first, however.

Both Popular Mechanics & Popular Science were covering model railroading for many years before A.C. Kalmbach started. But as may be imagined, the PM/PS vision of our hobby was radically different from Kalmbach's developing consumerist orientation. PM/PS presented a vastly higher DIY content. One 1930s PS article calls model railroading "the ace of workshop hobbies". Do tell! If anything model railroading under MR & RMC became "the ace of American Express and Visa card swiping hobbies". Full size private airplanes, yachting and collecting rare gold coins are the only hobbies I can think that compete in potential cash absorption.

That DIY focus was to be expected from magazines that regularly ran articles on the fine points of using screw cutting metal lathes, general metal machining, how to build small metal melting furnaces for making castings, fundamental electric circuit work, etc. No one need take my word for this. Google Books now has over a century of keyword search-able full text/full graphics for both PM & PS. You can find model railroading articles in both of these magazines dating back into the early 1920s.

http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search

And vastly more. Not just how to "use" tools but how to build tools. Thanks to the internet the hobby is entering a transition at least as profound as real railroads' 1950s transition from steam to diesel-electric locomotives.

I think rapid prototyping is going to make a huge impact on the hobby as prices continue to fall and it becomes more commonplace. I know that most people reading this haven't seen a High-Resolution SLA part in person, but the quality has greatly improved over the past few years, and getting better at a quick pace. And, as CharCad mentions, you can DIY if so inclined - check out this YouTube video of a homemade 3D printer...pretty cool: Homemade 3D Printer

There is no doubt of this.

Do I think certain business models or status quo are in trouble? Yes. I just don't think the hobby as it stands today is sustainable, for many of the reasons stated by others, but I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing...another doorway to people that might not normally make this their hobby, and will help keep it alive in the future.

That's righteous.

I think the future is clear too. What is finished is the M-R/RMC consumerist vision of the hobby. And good riddance say I. Scenic composition was the one solid achievement of that era. The mainstream future of our model railroading hobby is in the bride's superstition: "Something old..." (the many thousands of workshop techniques and tips in PM & PS magazines, now re-revealed by Google Books) "and something new" (computers, CAD, CAM, CNC). Personally I can't imagine a more exciting time for the hobby. More potential and opportunity than anytime in my 48 years in it.

I believe the very greatest modeling achievements and days are still in front of us.
 
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p.s. This one is a classic:

Popular Mechanics - Nov 1939. Tinplate Track Made in This "Rolling Mill".

I initially wanted to look up any available plans for building a small "rolling mill" of the Jeweler type. The thought is - literally - rolling my own scale track from brass round rod. The PM tinplate track article came up about 3d in Google Book's search return list.

Such was the state of "model railroading" before Zombie Consumerism took over.
 
The hobby is doing well in our area, I know the shop I do repair work for is up almost 10% over last years sales. But we are seeing less sales of the high doller engines unless they are preordered, the ones in the shop just sit on the shelves, even at a 20% off every day pricing. But freight cars, buildings including the higher priced Woodland Scenics built up buildings. Modelers are taking advantage of any dumping sales from Walthers, BLI ect. Localy we have seen a growth in narrow gauge modeling with the influx of nice stuff from Blackstone and Microtrains in HOn3. At the train shows I have attended helping the owner of the shop with his booth, I have seen many collections of modelers that have marked off the board for the final time, lots of brass, craftsman kits and older boxed kits from the likes of Train Minature, Athearn, MDC/Roundhouse ect. When one of these collections shows up, its the busiest table(s) in the show till its either picked over or all sold. Prices are way down, espicaly on early brass like PFM/United steam engines, which run almost as good as current day stuff and with an open frame motor most of the times. A new can or coreless motor turns them into really good runners that will hold thier value better than any BLI or MTH piece. If you love older kits, craftsman kits and tinkering with older brass to make it really run well, now is a great time to be in the hobby. I leave the high doller RTR stuff and sound equipted engines to those that can afford it and enjoy it. I do have 1 sound engine myself, but after running maybe an hour or so switching a local freight, it grows old, even with the sound on the lowest setting. I guess I grew up in a differnet era, when I run a non sound engine, I hear the sound, and its better than anything on the market today as its in my own mind, with proper bass to the chuff as one of my steamers gets a heavy load moving. As our economy improves, the hobby will follow suit to some extent. But with high gas prices to stay and only getting worse again, instead of traveling more, folks are staying home and enjoying thier hobbies more. Durring the $4 a gallon gas last year, train sales were thru the roof localy, and at the larger shows. Instead of buying gas to travel, folks seemed to be buying train stuff and staying home more. Unfortunatly the limited runs are driving up the prices as less models produced jacks up the price to keep the return on investment on tooling in line with thier profit margin, much like the brass industry. If it wasnt for vintage models, my ablity to tinker and build kits. I am not sure I could or would get into this hobby today. An upcoming run of Athearn Northeastern cabooses has a MSRP of almost $30 bucks, for a caboose! Granted they are beautifull models with paint schemes once only the relm of custom painted models, but at that price I can only say WOW. I think the coming years will see the stong companies and hobby shops survive, and the week and underperforming will disappear from the scene. Again much like the brass companies that so domintated the older model railroader magazines. Just look who we have lost in the last several years, Mantua got bought out, IHC is all but gone, Lifelike got bought out, Athearn got bought out, PFM is gone as is most of the brass importers of years ago, just a few survive putting out super small runs of super high doller trains for the high roller collectors or folks with above average disposable income. But we have seen the rise of many new companies, Broadway Limited, MTH in both O and HO scale, Blackstone in HOne, MMI in On30 and On3 and Accucraft in large scale electric and live steam. I do see more younger folks getting into the hobby and more wives getting involved. I know my wife likes building kits and many of my buildings. I am fortunate that she enjoys being involved in my hobbies. There are less of the younger generation, but there are still newbies coming into the hobby. More mainline advertising is needed from companies, ads on TV on Saturday morning and not just at Christmas time. When I display my small layout at shows, I dont hesitate to hand over the controls to a small child, with proper supervision by me or his/her parent. This is how we get thier interest and keep it. Not just by showing them, but allowing them to participate. Even at full throttle you cant overspeed the train on my layout. Thier looks are priceless, and I have seen many later on in the show as they leave with dad or mom carring a set under thier arm, or a sack full of stuff to get started. Cheers Mike and Michele T
 



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