Whoa Nelly!

[nephthyr]

It appears as though the hobby is living up to some of its more ridiculous myths. The first myth about model railroading is that it is expensive. This actually depends entirely on how much you're willing to spend. Yes brass locomotives are very expensive. An Athearn can be had for as little as $49.95 on sale. You can also run a layout off a cheap $49.00 DC system so you don't need DCC, it just makes wiring easier. Also installing DCC decoders yourself (if you choose the DCC route) can be another way to save money. So at the end of the day, it depends on what you're willing to settle for and finding creative ways to save money.

Having said that, the price of some new items has to be questioned. Case in point: Athearn's new FMC box car which is tagged at $24.98 (http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH87422) Twenty five dollars for a boxcar???? I'm sure Irv Athearn is turning in his grave! Another case in point is Intermountain, with some of their cars also crossing the $30.00 mark for a single car. Atlas is also not far behind, their new Trinity tanks are just under $30.00 and their 89' flat cars are over $30.00. I am using MSRP here, but as long as I use each manufacturer's MSRP then it shouldn't be a problem.

Blackstone Models has just posted the price of their passenger cars (HOn3 scale) and I was shocked to say the least. $93.95 for one car. See http://www.blackstonemodels.com/rolling/passengercoach/index.php And this is an introductory offer that expires June 15th 2010. All I can say is that this is outrageous! As much as I really would like to have some of these cars, I think I might have to give them a miss. Sad, to say the least...

So now the question is, is this price justified? Has the cost of manufacturing (in China) increased that drastically that such a high price tag is needed? I can't help but wonder. When is such a high price a true reflection of cost and when is it a case of a manufacturer being greedy?

One thing that is in our favour is that many dealers pass on their dealer discount to the client. So if a dealer gets a percentage off MSRP then you can expect to pay less than the MSRP. Caboose Hobbies is taking pre orders on the Blackstone Passenger cars and is offering them for just over $75. Model Train stuff is offering Atlas Trinity tanks for just under $20.00. Even at these prices they are still quite expensive if one considers that the average price of an Athearn blue box kit was around $9.00 not so long ago.

 

[tankist]

So now the question is, is this price justified?

answer to this would be completely personal. is price premium for luxury grade acura TSX vehicle over the whatever honda model it based upon justified? difference in manufacturing costs is not that dramatic.

so while i personally see your point (i drive honda and don't buy brass ) there are even more expensive models targeting different segment of modelers/ collectors.
supply, demand = market. vote with your wallet

 

[Selector]

With smaller production batches, the distributors have to make a range of profit on fewer items. That means more cost per item. Costs are rising, including in China. So is the cost of shipping.

Remember, if China wants two dollars more per item, the distributor will want four....totalling $6 more at the counter.

-Crandell

 

[adurbin]

One thing Ive learned very quick in the hobby, is that unless you find a deal...you get what you pay for.

 

[MGWSY]

Figure that most hobby shops buy from distributors at anywhere from 40% - 55% off retail, the Distributor buys items from the manufacturer at 50% - 75% off retail but it all depends on the manufacturer. 40% is the typical Dealer discount from places like Athearn, Walthers, Intermountain, Atlas, Etc.

 

[Irongrave]

Your also paying for the detail work that is in these new cars. In the past if you wanted that level of detail you were spending $10 for the car and another $10-15 on detail parts and your time. At the end of the day its what we pay for progress. Along with the fact there are fewer and fewer people into this hobby.

 

[Selector]

... At the end of the day its what we pay for progress. Along with the fact there are fewer and fewer people into this hobby.

Them two statements have resulted in endless locked threads in the forum where I moderate.

I am not intending to start a protracted and heated debate, just pointing out that those two statements seem to polarize the members elsewhere. One group thinks 'progress' is that we get nicer detailed RTR stuff, while the other side says, "When I went to school, sonny, we had to build a plastics factory and make all the parts. Then we had to ask Mom for our pablum 'cuz we were hungry! After we did all the dishes, we worked at the kitchen table under candlelight and made far better cars than these fancy Accurail thingies." [read that to yourself in an old geezer's voice.]

Or, that there are fewer people in the hobby. I don't understand how this can be so when you can find at least 60 or more thriving businesses of varying sizes providing everything to the market from hybrid brass engines costing $500 to tiny MU hoses in brass sent in airmail envelopes, decals, new passenger cars from Canada of unparalleled quality (if Branchline kits aren't good enough or available any more...), how many companies making track fixtures from built-up to hand-laying jigs, prototypical scale items from how many entities? And the hobby is shrinking?!

Well, maybe so...it's hard to tell. Magazines are falling, but an on-line version is now over 18 months old and apparently thriving. Train shows seem to be doing well, even if they cost more to run and to subscribe to at the door. Without some concrete and defined method to demonstrate the status of the hobby, we are all just guessing.

My opinions, of course.

-Crandell

 

[Rybcon]

Prices increase. It's a fact of life. I hadn't paid attention, but I have an Athearn GP-9 that I probably bought around 1990. The price tag on the box - - - - $17.23.

 

[ianacole]

Prices increase. It's a fact of life. I hadn't paid attention, but I have an Athearn GP-9 that I probably bought around 1990. The price tag on the box - - - - $17.23.

From: http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

In 2009, $17.23 from 1990 is worth:
$28.30 using the Consumer Price Index
$26.10 using the GDP deflator
$29.90 using the unskilled wage
$34.50 using the nominal GDP per capita
$42.40 using the relative share of GDP

 

[alcoman]

I think it's great that so much is available on the market now. I don't buy much RTR because I like either building kits or scratch building. I try to stick with what I can afford and what I enjoy.

Things change. May be for the better, maybe for the worse. Really depends on who you are and what you want.

 

[shawn63]

I was just able to purchase a spectrum ho shay for 129.00 thats about the price was when it hit the market in 2000 it is also dcc ready. I guess there pushing the sunami sound that one is 425.00 I can add it for 85.00 and have the same engine with sound for 230.00 after shipping this is from modeltrainstuff.com but I notice today their out of stock I only had to wait 10 years for the price to go down.

 

[blownoutcylinder]

Or, that there are fewer people in the hobby. I don't understand how this can be so when you can find at least 60 or more thriving businesses of varying sizes providing everything to the market from hybrid brass engines costing $500 to tiny MU hoses in brass sent in airmail envelopes, decals, new passenger cars from Canada of unparalleled quality (if Branchline kits aren't good enough or available any more...), how many companies making track fixtures from built-up to hand-laying jigs, prototypical scale items from how many entities? And the hobby is shrinking?!

Well, maybe so...it's hard to tell. Magazines are falling, but an on-line version is now over 18 months old and apparently thriving. Train shows seem to be doing well, even if they cost more to run and to subscribe to at the door. Without some concrete and defined method to demonstrate the status of the hobby, we are all just guessing.

My opinions, of course.

-Crandell

It may very well be that the total is going down---prices go up when you tend to have fewer buyers overall. But then again...

There is an interesting issue about the methodology to determine the status of any population segment going on to begin with. I tend to think that unless you can find a hard scientific way to determine such we will have to live with the uncertainty that we may be doing the shrinking thing.

I like to think not but----

 

[Hillwilliam]

Whoa Nelly

I think it's great that so much is available on the market now. I don't buy much RTR because I like either building kits or scratch building. I try to stick with what I can afford and what I enjoy.

Things change. May be for the better, maybe for the worse. Really depends on who you are and what you want.

My interest in this hobby started many years ago when things were relatively cheaper, middle incomes were proportionally larger and free time was "Free"er. I agree with Alcoman when it comes to buying RTR. I understand that manufacturers costs are skyrocketing so in order to make my hobby cash go further, scratch building is necessary.

There is a certain part of my anatomy that puckers up severely when I gaze lustily at an HOn3 steamer for only slightly less than $500. I figure one of three things is going to happen: 1) Pony up the cash and quit griping, 2) Move on to something else or 3) Get the plans for the item and scratch build it. #3 is getting to be the norm.

Some of the earlier products were not particularly prototypical but that avenue let the individual modify the product to specifications or desires. Pictures of John Allen's work display a lot of non-RTR stuff and is a credit to his ability to adapt existing and create.

Best Regards

edj

 

[flyboy2610]

Plastic is a petroleum product, and it is getting more expensive too.

 

[cncproadwarrior]

I also picked up about half my locos in the mid 80s and all those that I have bought recently were on sale with the last two being 50% off. I simply cannot in good faith pay full retail for any loco. But that's just me.

 

[zoegraf]

With smaller production batches, the distributors have to make a range of profit on fewer items. That means more cost per item. Costs are rising, including in China. So is the cost of shipping.

Remember, if China wants two dollars more per item, the distributor will want four....totalling $6 more at the counter.

-Crandell

Good point.
I noticed it can be an expensive hobby for those who model railways less modelled such as Canadian railways and smaller railroads in the U.S. I'm sure the productions batches can be small especially when prototypical models are desired and to be accurate for a smaller market such as Canada, which I have no problem paying for. I remember the days when I used to have to settle for American motive and rolling stock with Canadian paint schemes. I'm so glad TLT, Proto, and Rapido are out there. For years the only prototypical canadian caboose was in brass and it wasn't even all that nice or acurate. A lost of us had to scratchbuild one or settle for some lousy kits.
As for prices, I bought my first Atlas GP38 back in 1977 in the U.S. for $39.00. I was making about $4.00/hr though my current profession back then paid about $8.00/hr. So about 4 hours pay back then bought me a nice product in its day, but nothing as nice as what its available today in regards to motors and details. Now it costs me anywhere from 4 to 6 hours pay to buy a nice diesel. I have no idea what brass cost back then, but I know the quality is much better now though sometimes they have minor screw ups on the placement of the numbers, stripes, and logos.

 

[nephthyr]

There is a certain part of my anatomy that puckers up severely when I gaze lustily at an HOn3 steamer for only slightly less than $500. I figure one of three things is going to happen: 1) Pony up the cash and quit griping, 2) Move on to something else or 3) Get the plans for the item and scratch build it. #3 is getting to be the norm.

I agree completely, but I'm an RTR kind of guy myself, reason I dont want to scratchbuild is that I dont have the skill and dont want to spend the time obtaining the skill. I'd prefer to use my limited time on constructing my layout and running trains. But that's a personal preference.

I have to say that the quality and level of detail has improved dramatically so in some cases a higher price tag is well worth it. Blackstone models is a very good example of this. I'm still used to seeing prices in the $40-$60 range from Blackstone, which is why I almost had a stroke when I saw the price of their Pass. cars. Now I'm sure these will be well worth the price as has been mentioned and needless to say I have placed my reservation and will be saving like a mad man, cutting back all expenses!

I re-entered the hobby after a 10 year absense and when I got back I was used to seeing RTR Athearn cars in HO averaging in the $12-$16 range, which I'm more than happy to pay. Now I'm seeing that prices are in the $14-$30 range a year and half on. I wonder if the recession hasn't also had a major impact?