Which DCC System?

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railroaderboy

Friend = U.P.S. Man
I'm in the process of designing my layout, the West Virginian. I realize that sooner or later that I will need to get a DCC system. I have come up with a conclusion of getting either the Lenz Set 100, the NCE power cab, or the NCE 5 amp powerhouse pro. I know a lot of people like the NCE stuff, and I love it from seeing other people use it in front of me, but I'm am only a teenager and don't really have a job. Because of this, I can't really afford the NCE stuff, unless I get the cheaper power cab. But then I will only be able to run 4 trains (I model in N scale). I like the Lenz stuff because it is slightly cheaper and from what I've heard, almost as good as the NCE stuff. Although I'm not really sold on the keypad for a throttle. What would you get if you were in my spot? I also would like to upgrade to radio equipped stuff (I'm lazy).
 
After doing much research I'm going with the NCE power cab, as my layout is only 36x80 inches I don't think I'll be doing more than 4 engines at once, but if so I can always add the booster down the road, price is a factor for me as well, which is why I'm going with a starter set. I've also heard of people running 7 n scale engines on the Power Cab.
 
I'm thinking about the NCE power cab for pretty much the same reasons as you. It's fairly cheap to get started and I can expand easily as time goes on. My layout at a max is around 8' x 9' and will be freelanced through West Virginia. I will probably be running only about 4 trains anyway. I just need one to control a train and get some trackwork done so I can test out everything. I'm thinking of starting a thread when I finish building benchwork.
 


my opinion is MRC for small home layouts and NCE for home layouts with slight expandability. Im not a fan of digitrax for home layouts but do see its advantage with large clubs. there is no right or wrong system. pick what works best for you
 
I'm thinking about the NCE power cab for pretty much the same reasons as you. It's fairly cheap to get started and I can expand easily as time goes on. My layout at a max is around 8' x 9' and will be freelanced through West Virginia. I will probably be running only about 4 trains anyway. I just need one to control a train and get some trackwork done so I can test out everything. I'm thinking of starting a thread when I finish building benchwork.

Wish I had 8x9 to work with! definetly do a build thread, I'm going to start one as soon as the rest of my track comes in and I start laying (doing a freelanced mid atlantic/northeast setting), right now I only have about half the track, and none of the 9 turnouts I need, I just have an oval running on DC at the moment.
 
Funny story about the room (I'll talk about it in my thread). Where should I put the thread, I've never done one before. Once I get it up I'll post some pics!
 
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Imackattack, I really am not to much of a fan of the MRC stuff, even though it's a whole lot cheaper than NCE. If I did go with MRC, than I'd just go straight for the wireless stuff because it's only $80 more than a powerhouse pro that is tethered. I would really like to go with NCE and I think I will get an Power cab so I can expand every christmas and summer (the two time I get some Mula!). I can't afford the full power house pro system (I'm just a teen that is too young to work except for in the summer when I mow lawns). I like the Power cab because as DaveJB said, I can easily expand. Plus, it has the NCE Logo (that is a good reason for a lot of people, HAHA!).
 
I have the Powercab and would recommend it. How many times do you see yourself running four trains anyway, or a four unit lashup on a small layout? You can add a booster and additional throttles later if you like depending on your needs.

I'm not a big fan of MRC either. They seem to lack some features I like, and though they are cheap, and easy to use, expandability is limited. No disrespect to the MRC users on the forum, but for long term use, the top three are NCE, Digitrax, and Lenz. I have had both Digitrax and NCE systems. NCE is a little easier to use, and much easier to program on than Digitrax from my experiences.
 
though they are cheap, and easy to use, expandability is limited. No disrespect to the MRC users on the forum, but for long term use, the top three are NCE, Digitrax, and Lenz.

expandability is not limited whatsoever with MRC, just get yet another booster and then another one... a club is probably better off with digitrax but even for advanced home i don't see how MRC would be limited.
the reason i sold my MRC system however is the proprietary data bus and as such incompatibility with JMRI project. other then that the system is excellent.
 
expandability is not limited whatsoever with MRC, just get yet another booster and then another one... a club is probably better off with digitrax but even for advanced home i don't see how MRC would be limited.
the reason i sold my MRC system however is the proprietary data bus and as such incompatibility with JMRI project. other then that the system is excellent.

My bad, you can expand it, to a point. My biggest problem with MRC products is the lack of feedback. No way to read back cv's. (EDIT: conflicting sources here, do the latest MRC systems read back? If so my bad again) Also, no wireless option. Granted for most home layouts, this isn't a big deal, but my layout, which was in half of a two car garage did benefit from wirelesss operation. I got spoiled to it, and really liked not having to plug in all the time. Many like it from posts I have read on the forum, but if it can't perform cv readback, I wouldn't consider it a fully capable system.

Just my $.02 ;)
 
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Hi Alan

Yes you can read back CVs on the program track but you may need a programm track booster with the newer sound decoders, for example I cant read back my Tsunamis motor/sound decoders but can with a Digitrax motor only decoder. From what I know with my MRC Advanced 2 is that you can have wireless throttles, add power bosters for the main and programm track, program on the main and read back CVs. MRC is shomewhat expandable with the use of their own products, you can use MRC's computer/cv programmer but it lacks JMRI support and this is where I and many others feel its not 100% expandable. I do think the lack of JMRI is its major down fall as alot of us like to use computers to add to the layouts use. I think MRC is great for home layouts as it has surved me very well. Should also note that I only operate 2-3 trains at once max. i did how ever have 4 sound equiped steam engines pull one train while I had another 3 sound unit pull a 2nd train. all 7 units running and 4 more in my yards at idle with sound. way to loud!!! but the system did not over load! I like to consider myself as being "in the loop" as far as DCC options so I can give it credit where due and also look at its flaws. Just as Im not a big Fan of Digitraxx I also see how it is very usefull for larger layouts, clubs or even for small layouts. I
hope this helps
Trent
 
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I liked the digitrax stuff until i looked at the price tag. To me, if I was going for digitrax, I would want to make it radio operated (it's cheaper than everybody else) but it seems like you have to dish out some extra cash (the idea of not being able to access all features without plugging in the throttle) serves no purpose to me. At least if I went radio on NCE stuff I could just stuff the radio system underneath the benchwork (or maybe in a built in, roll out shelf) and not worry about plugging in anything. I really do think I'm going to go with the NCE power cab on this one. Oh and by the way, Where should I post my layout in progress thread?
 
I am sorry to inturrupt with a question bbut I am curious, will any decoder work with any DCC system? I am currently collecting DCC equipped loco's (N scale) and before I get too deep I need to make sure that any decoder will work with any system.

Thanks in advance!
 
Rem, as far as I know, any decoder should work with any DCC system. But, this should only be true to my knowledge if the decoder and system are both with NMRA's standards. But don't trust me, wait for someone to tell you if I'm wrong or right.:eek:
 
My bad, you can expand it, to a point. My biggest problem with MRC products is the lack of feedback. No way to read back cv's. (EDIT: conflicting sources here, do the latest MRC systems read back? If so my bad again) Also, no wireless option. Granted for most home layouts, this isn't a big deal, but my layout, which was in half of a two car garage did benefit from wirelesss operation. I got spoiled to it, and really liked not having to plug in all the time. Many like it from posts I have read on the forum, but if it can't perform cv readback, I wouldn't consider it a fully capable system.

Just my $.02 ;)
i did not have read back, correct. but thats becasu all i had is express cab.
there is a easy plug in wireless cabs and there is a readback with prodigy advance cabs. i could add ~200 for wireless cab and be done but i felt that this is a dead end upgrade.

MRC is really nice as far as modularity and ergonomics. the reason i switching is lack of JMRI compatibility.
 
I have the Powercab and would recommend it. How many times do you see yourself running four trains anyway, or a four unit lashup on a small layout? You can add a booster and additional throttles later if you like depending on your needs...

I do like the Power Cab, and it is ideal for many small layouts; however, depending on want one wants to get into, it is pretty easy to outgrow, even on a small layout. I'll give you an example: Let's say you have a small layout, but it is designed so you can have two operators at a time, and you want operating signaling. For the signaling, you'll need block detection, input modules to the DCC system, and a PC interface for signal logic. On NCE systems, the input modules and PC interface both occupy cab addresses, so you would have already outgrown the base Power Cab. Even with the Smart Booster and it's four cab addresses, you would be at it's maximum capacity. If you ran out of inputs, you could not add another input module(the Mini Panel has 30 inputs, so you would not likely use all of them for block detection on a small layout; however, if you want control panel buttons to operate routes, they would also use some of these inputs and would increase the likelyhood of running out). You could certainly upgrade to the Power House Pro at this point, but that is a pretty big jump in price. I do realize most people will not go this far, but it is something to consider for those that might.

This is one of the main reasons I went with a Zephyr instead of a Power Cab. I do plan on having block detection, operating signals, and possibly even some automated running. To do what I plan to do with NCE I would have to go with the Power House Pro, but my Zephyr will handle my layout just fine(you can use 10 throttles with the Zephyr, plus input modules and computer interfaces do not cut into that number).

expandability is not limited whatsoever with MRC...

Well, yes it is. Since you can not use JMRI with it, you can not build computer based control panels(you can operate turnouts and routes from MRC's software, but not using a graphical representation of the layout, at least not yet). Since MRC does not offer any kind of input module for their cab bus, you can not easily build physical control panels to operate routes from pushbuttons(the reason I say easily, is because this can still be done using diode routing). You also cannot integrate signaling.

Actually, to be completely honest, there are ways to do these things, such as using Loconet along side the MRC system(you don't even have to have a Digitrax command station to do this), but they are not as flexible and convenient as being able to integrate it all into one system.

...My biggest problem with MRC products is the lack of feedback. No way to read back cv's. (EDIT: conflicting sources here, do the latest MRC systems read back? If so my bad again) Also, no wireless option...

All of the current MRC systems are capable of decoder readback, even the Express system is if you add an Advanced cab. Some of the confusion may come from MRC originally not including readback in their sound decoders, although they have reversed their position on that and every one since then(I do not know when they actually started to include readback) does allow readback.

...To me, if I was going for digitrax, I would want to make it radio operated (it's cheaper than everybody else) but it seems like you have to dish out some extra cash (the idea of not being able to access all features without plugging in the throttle) serves no purpose to me. At least if I went radio on NCE stuff I could just stuff the radio system underneath the benchwork (or maybe in a built in, roll out shelf) and not worry about plugging in anything...

With Digitrax's duplex radio system you do not ever have to plug in the throttle, except for the initial setup.

...If I did go with MRC, than I'd just go straight for the wireless stuff because it's only $80 more than a powerhouse pro that is tethered...

Since price really seems to be a major concern, which I fully understand, it is important to note that MRC products generally have a much deeper discount than Digitrax or NCE. You wouldn't know it from looking at the MSRP, but you can get the MRC wireless starter set for LESS than the Power House Pro tethered set(Tony's Train Exchange has it listed for $390 and Micro-Mark has it listed for $360, also realize the Power House Pro price does not include a power supply, but the MRC wireless price does).

One thing I do not like about MRC's wirelss system is if you start off tethered and upgrade to wireless, you can not upgrade your tethered throttles to wireless. Both Digitrax and NCE let you upgrade your tethered throttles to wireless for the difference in cost between a tethered throttle and wirless throttle. I also don't like the fact that when you plug in a wireless throttle, all it does is charge the battery and you are still operating wirelessly - if you lose control for some reason due to RF interference, plugging in doesn't help. Digitrax and NCE throttles convert to tethered operation when plugged in. I do, however, really like the idea of MRC's rechargeable batteries.

If you really like NCE and really want to go wireless, one thing many people overlook is you can add a wireless base station and cab to a Power Cab. Also, these wireless components can then be used with the Smart Booster or Power House Pro if you then eventually upgrade to one of those.
 
robert, thanks.
very nice post

Well, yes it is. Since you can not use JMRI with it,
true. i guess all i thought of "expandability" as only being able to run more engines and use more cabs.
 
I do like the Power Cab, and it is ideal for many small layouts; however, depending on want one wants to get into, it is pretty easy to outgrow, even on a small layout. I'll give you an example: Let's say you have a small layout, but it is designed so you can have two operators at a time, and you want operating signaling. For the signaling, you'll need block detection, input modules to the DCC system, and a PC interface for signal logic. On NCE systems, the input modules and PC interface both occupy cab addresses, so you would have already outgrown the base Power Cab. Even with the Smart Booster and it's four cab addresses, you would be at it's maximum capacity. If you ran out of inputs, you could not add another input module(the Mini Panel has 30 inputs, so you would not likely use all of them for block detection on a small layout; however, if you want control panel buttons to operate routes, they would also use some of these inputs and would increase the likelyhood of running out). You could certainly upgrade to the Power House Pro at this point, but that is a pretty big jump in price. I do realize most people will not go this far, but it is something to consider for those that might.

Nice Information Robert, though I am questioning what you consider a small layout. :D I use my Powercab for programming, or running a small switching layout at home. The features you are talking about are all ones more at home on a larger layout, aren't they? Unless your idea of a small layout is pretty big. I originally had Digitrax, bought back in the late 90's, and upgraded over the years. I chose it because it was half the price of Wangrow or NCE who were the other big players at the time. Half was a big difference! That isn't true anymore, as the Digitrax sets and NCE sets are pretty close if you compare apples to apples. This plus what is to me and most folks I talk with, and easier operator interface tipped the scale. At the club, we have PowerPro with radio. After being exposed to that system, I ended up selling off my Digitrax stuff and getting the Powercab for home use.

Anyway that's my story and I'm stuck with it. ;) Sounds like railroaderboy has made his decision. We all have different priorities, as you have aptly demonstrated, and those are what should dictate our choice of system.
 


It will be awhile before I actually buy my DCC system. I am now having second thoughts on NCE. My big concern is the warranty on the NCE stuff (I am kind of a klutz, not good when combined with model railroading). I like the Digitrax stuff and really not to concerned about the radio throttles. I actually don't mind the infrared stuff from digitrax. Since digitrax was my first choice, I think I will go with it, but I'm going to go ahead and get a super empire builder (the Zephyr being stationary is a problem for me due to the around the wall style layout my layout is going to be. Thanks for the info everyone! I will get NCE someday when I'm old and rich (don't we all wish that, or at least the "rich" part:D). I really like it and won't forget it someday when I can actually afford it.
 




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