What's the deal with PWRS & PORTERS?


MikeOwnby

MikeOwnby

Active Member
So I was going to pre-order a caboose from Pacific Western Rail Systems, and noticed this PORTERS customer loyalty thing. Besides the HO caboose, they do have some very nice N scale hoppers I've been eyeing, so I'm thinking signing up for this may just be worth it. Save a buck or two on the pre-order, maybe get enough loyalty points to realize I'll never have enough to use.

Now here's where it gets weird. I enter the info to sign up, and instead of just creating an account they say they'll contact me. Well, okay, maybe they're worried about fraud? Or just want to make sure it's a real person. Got it. But then they call, and trust me I'm tough to get on the phone if it's voice. If you really want to communicate with me, text is your friend. So anyway, after a couple missed calls the guy finally gets hold of me Thursday as I'm driving down the highway. At this point I've pretty much proven I'm a real person just by answering the phone, but I tell the guy I'm on the road, can't talk long, he says no problem, he'll just send me an email. Now he's got this spiel down pat. So down pat that it takes me four attempts to speak and say that email is the best bet before Mr. slick-talker even registers that I'm trying to speak to him. Whatever. Point made. Email. Thank you. Good-bye.

So what I'm expecting when I get home is an email saying "welcome! We know you're a real person & look forward to taking your money!" or something probably a little more subtle. But what do I have? Basically a recap of what was on the website saying that they sure do want to talk to me and now I can call THEM instead and learn all about how all this works!

Now, let's recap: I've talked to the guy. They have my email address, my home address and my phone number. They know I'm a real person and I'm all verified. So why is it that they feel they still need to get me on the phone and tell me all about "how this works"? Sorry, but I'm smelling great big ol' fishy smells. If their program is so complicated that I need to be talked through it to even understand what it is because a website just can't explain it all, then frankly no thanks. Don't need that much hassle just to buy stuff when the rewards are probably just not all that great (they never really are). But I have a feeling that these people are wanting to get me on the phone so Mr. James the slick-talker can upsell me on something more than just a customer loyalty program. I mean, if I'd wanted to sit there and have a conversation I would have called the phone number to begin with instead of filling out the web sign-up form.

So am I mis-reading this? Does anybody have experience with these people and dealing with them? At this point frankly I'm a bit annoyed at the whole thing and thinking that as nifty as some of their stuff might be, it's also a bit expensive, I don't NEED any of it, and I'm now not sure I even want to do business with the company if there's this much BS in just signing up for a loyalty program. I also may regret ever giving them my contact information since their emails also don't include any "opt out" info. Sigh.
 
Hey Mike - I'm with you on this one. Being Canadian, I try to order from Canadian suppliers when I can. I did the same as you a while back and finally thought this is too much hassle to go through just to be able to order something off of a website, which in theory is supposed to make it easier. I think they are alienating a lot of potential customers with this business model. I haven't gone to the website since.
 
The deal with them is they charge msrp for nearly everything. The sales are not really sales, just slight discounts that nearly every other dealer regularly gives. The points program is a joke. You'd have to spend thousands of dollars there to ever get something for free. Their website has a great search engine and new releases section though.
 
The only reason I was looking at them to begin with was their North American Railcar Corporation cars, specifically the Saskatchewan cylindrical hoppers which are about to have another run. I haven't been able to find any other source for those, and they are awfully pretty. Then along came this HO scale caboose they're supposed to make, and well...

I kinda figured the rewards points would be a joke, but since they also mentioned a pre-order discount I thought "what the heck". It's worth a couple minutes of time to save a few dollars; there just comes a point where the hassle outweighs the payoff. But yeah, like I said, while they may have some pretty stuff it's nothing I can't live without, and I can't imagine they'd be too fun to deal with on returns or mistakes if this PORTERS fiasco is anything to judge it by.

Just wanted to kinda make sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions, and it seems like I wasn't. Thanks for the input, guys.
 
I want the North American Saskatchewan hopper also but that Porter thing is why I have none and if PWRS wants more business get rid of the Porter's and make ordering easy.
 
I have dealt with dozens and dozens of online retailers which have nothing like the "Porters" "feature" - so I would be very reluctant to deal with PWRS - the whole thing seems a bit suspect.
 
Interesting info this, specially as another club member (Queensland Australia) mentioned he had pre-orders in at this organisation and referred them to me. I must ask him next time I see him (he's away for a couple more weeks) how on earth he managed to get on.

Have tried this pre-ordering stuff before with a couple of E-tailers, only to find that MB Klein's are cheaper when they come out. They as you probably know, don't pre-order, but they will send you a heads-up email beforehand.
 
tootnkumin said:
Interesting info this, specially as another club member (Queensland Australia) mentioned he had pre-orders in at this organisation and referred them to me. I must ask him next time I see him (he's away for a couple more weeks) how on earth he managed to get on.

Have tried this pre-ordering stuff before with a couple of E-tailers, only to find that MB Klein's are cheaper when they come out. They as you probably know, don't pre-order, but they will send you a heads-up email beforehand.
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Their points program is part pyramid scheme...if someone refers you and you sign up and order, they get points from your order as do you. The more people below you, the more points you accumulate. AmWay anybody???....
 
tootnkumin said:
Have tried this pre-ordering stuff before with a couple of E-tailers, only to find that MB Klein's are cheaper when they come out. They as you probably know, don't pre-order, but they will send you a heads-up email beforehand.
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Yeah, I had one place (I'll leave out the name) I put in a *bunch* of pre-orders. Sounded like a great deal; 30% off MSRP, which does usually beat MB Klein by a tiny little bit and I don't have to worry about keeping track. So I had all these pre-orders placed. One went just fine. The next one there was a price increase. I didn't look up the MSRP info, I just took their word for it. Then along comes this big order of coalporters, and this is where the real BS started. I ask for the total, and it's $70 above that 30% off figure. Price increase? Nope. This time I checked, and the MSRP on those hadn't changed one penny. So either they were trying to charge me $70 for shipping or else they just figured I was stupid and misinformed enough to not know what the MSRP of those was. So I reported my credit card as compromised so they couldn't charge their "non-payment" fee and never bought a thing from them again. Frankly it's worth the non-hassle of just buying from MB Klein rather than deal with people who, instead of appreciating all the business you're doing, try to squeeze out some extra cash and whatnot.

The problem with those North American cars is that they're ONLY sold exclusively through this PWRS site. Which I would imagine is yet another part of their apparent pyramid scheme thing. They have a unique product with no other distribution outlets and they figure they've got you no matter what. I guess for some people that's true, but there's nothing on the rails I need bad enough to deal with hassles and shadiness :)
 
It wasn't an actual referral to get on as a member, just a "have a look at this site, I use it", but I guess if a member gave you his details so you could quote them in your application, you might get straight in with less hassle. I did have a look and I saw those cars being promoted, a bummer that they're an exclusive.
 
I've been dealing with PWRS since before they had an internet site you could order on. The phone calls are a hold over from the days they only did business over the phone. The 'sales guys' made commission of your purchases through them. The phone call is so they can setup the details of your account, your favourite roads, scale, era, etc, so the website can highlight things that may interest you. All these things could be setup by you after making an account, but they still think the 'human touch' is good. And your sales guy may still be able to make a commission if you order through him instead of directly on the site.

Porters points are somewhat of a joke. The system of earning them is very convoluted. Different products and different manufactures earn different amounts of points. PWRS exclusive stuff earns more points. The rewards can simply be monetary, but you also gain access to some neat exclusive run models that can only be purchased with points.

Don't expect any great deals from PWRS. As mentioned by others, they charge close to MSRP. They do have regular sales that you can find some good deals in, but be sure to compare, most of their sale prices are not great.

PWRS does do some nice custom runs, like the CN PSC caboose they announced. They used to do a lot of custom runs of intermountain cars, but not any more. The NARC line of cars are very nice. I have several of the Saskatchewan cylindrical hoppers and some of the Coal gons they did. They use wheels that are close to proto 87 scale, so I recommend ordering their replacement wheel sets for trouble free operation. NARC is exclusive to PWRS, so you need an account, or to hope you find one on ebay.

As for MB Klein, they are great and have excellent prices most of the time. The problem is, there are no pre-orders. If it is something you 'have to have', you may miss it on their site. If they ever add pre-orders, it will be the only place I really look.

If you really want a Saskatchewan hopper, NARC is the exclusive manufacturer for the green paint scheme. PWRS, ebay or a train show are your only options. The CN PSC caboose is being done by Trueline Trains, so there are other places to order those. MB Klein will probably get some, you'll just have to be quick to snap one up.
 
CP9302 said:
I've been dealing with PWRS since before they had an internet site...
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Thank you for all that information. Very detailed and I do appreciate it as it gives me more of an understanding of exactly what is going on. So yeah, the CN caboose in HO and the Saskatchewan hoppers in N scale are all I was really interested in. I've been looking at the hoppers forever and keep being put off by their price, so honestly the convoluted mess of joining their "club" is enough for me to just finally say "nope, not worth it" even though I'm in a good place financially now to order some. Good to know I can look elsewhere for the caboose, also. I'll get right on that.

Honestly, I just don't get why they make it so difficult. You would think their high prices would be enough of a handicap without trying to otherwise drive off customers. Very strange business model.
 
The system that Klein's use can be found under "Products" in the brown bar when you log into your account, go to"Advance Product Announcement", and click on that. Fill in the form (at the time I did this I entered the manufacturer's product number 'cause it had just been announced). They will send the email when it arrives in their store a couple of days before listing. Then it's up to you to jump in.

Not quite as "secure" maybe as a pre-order, but suits me. I made the mistake once of pre-ordering from IT (initials will do) and paying at the time 'cause I had the money available. Got charged an excessive postage (not declared until ordered), of which the balance was refunded at the time of shipping, but I figure why should they hold my money that I could be using elsewhere. Have only bought again from them when no-one else has had the items I've wanted and only of course in stock. Some of these places are their own worst enemies.
 
Well, I give up. I would have liked to get the Cape Breton version of the Point St. Charles caboose, but I can't find anybody else that even mentions it. I've looked through True Line Trains' list of dealers, but nope, nothing on anyone's site about pre-ordering this caboose. No way am I going to start blind calling every store on that list trying to figure out who's actually accepting pre-orders, so I guess that's it.

On a side note, WHY are so many model railroad retail sites such crap? Considering how few LHS remain, it boggles the mind that these people don't realize what a freaking gold mine the internet could be for them. IF, y'know, they had a site where you could actually browse around and not only find but SEE what they have to offer.
 
When I was chasing MTH 60' flat cars (the only maker of the HTTX type), I sent emails off to all the hobby shops that had them listed on MTH's site. Only a few replied (not even a courtesy reply from others). If you want a poor website, try Walthers, try and find a product without their number ref, try and see how much stock they've got. Order blindly, and hope for the best, then wait a week while they get round to it and then tell you they haven't got enough.
 
Do a search on Porters. I asked the same thing quite some time ago. One of the Pacific Western guys was at a Greenberg show here locally and was really laying down the hard sell and how great this new Porters thing was going to be and how it was going to destroy everyone elses prices and outsell Walthers and yada yada yada. When I came out I took one look at it and didnt see a single thing on there that was even close to comparible pricing or being worth the hassle to order from. IMO the only product that even looks interesting from me that they have is those operating air hoses. Even then, its an overpriced product IMO.
 
I've been doing business with PWRS for a while now, and have few if any complaints about their system. I use the PORTERS system as a way to view new releases from from all of the big players in one place. They can also order anything that is in stock/on sale from other companies like Walthers at no additional price (i.e. additional shipping). The standard prices are pretty much MSRP or a little below, but they have some excellent sales and I've purchased items at 30% or more below MSRP. I agree with previous posters that you would need to spend a small fortune with them to have enough points to actually cash them in, but it's better than a stick in the eye.

The sign-on call was a little strange, but it seems I had a different impression than most folks in this thread. The conversation took half an hour, but they explained how the system worked and set my preferences. That's it. That was the sinister club initiation. I travel a lot for work, and PWRS has been extremely accommodating with special shipping requests. And I have never been prodded to sign other people up in exchange for points, nor did anyone else get points from my inclusion into the program.
 
Jedediah Lawler said:
The sign-on call was a little strange, but it seems I had a different impression than most folks in this thread. The conversation took half an hour, but they explained how the system worked and set my preferences.
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See, if I have to spend half an hour on the phone just to give somebody my money? I just don't need anything that badly. You're much more patient and free with your time than I would ever be. I'm sincerely glad you're happy with them, though.
 
Jedediah Lawler said:
I use the PORTERS system as a way to view new releases from from all of the big players in one place.
The sign-on call was a little strange, but it seems I had a different impression than most folks in this thread. The conversation took half an hour, but they explained how the system worked and set my preferences.
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Glad you are happy with them.

I have purchased a good deal of product over the years from any number of sites. They all have an option to receive notices of new products via email. And being able to buy products from Walthers is common.

And none of the sites have ever needed to talk to me for any part of any hour to explain the system.

So what do they offer that no one else does?

Something seems off to me.
 
fcwilt said:
Glad you are happy with them.

I have purchased a good deal of product over the years from any number of sites. They all have an option to receive notices of new products via email. And being able to buy products from Walthers is common.

And none of the sites have ever needed to talk to me for any part of any hour to explain the system.

So what do they offer that no one else does?

Something seems off to me.
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My take on the phone call was that it is a means for the PWRS staff to apply a personal touch to the established customers. The message as I understood it was, "PORTERS is supposed to make everything run with a minimum of interaction from customer service, here are the buttons, and if you need us we'd love to help and now you know we're more than an e-mail address."

As you say, you have any number of alternatives for getting new product alerts and ordering merchandise. I like PWRS because you can see the upcoming releases and place pre-orders for pretty much everyone out there in one place, they have discounts on product lines like Athearn that you can't get through Walthers, and the sales offer some compelling discounts. I guess if you model a Canadian road, they have the limited run hoppers and the like as well.

You don't need to be a PORTERS member to buy anything from them but the limited run stuff, and that was how I was introduced to them. You guys sound like you have systems that work for you, and to each his own. I was just trying to quash the Ponzi scheme/phishing scam sentiment, because they are from all indications good people trying to combine a nicer online system than you'll get from most hobby shops with an "old fashioned" approach to customer service.
 
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