What advice to make a layout dateless.


dgrafix

dgrafix

Well-Known Member
I am collecting the fast trains of history and want my (fantasy, not really so much prototype driven) layout to reflect "bits" of the world without being too specific about a date or place. Or on the other hand include a -little- piece from everywhere the trains are from, but without being garish.
It is quite difficult because you have the steam age with trains such as the flying scotsman, germany with the ICE, france with the TGV, Japan/China/Korea's bullet trains..... etc..
I want my layout to be something that any train could run on featuring mostly stuff that has not changed that much.
Obviously the shinkansens mostly run in concrete troughs (although riding one it did get out onto more traditional looking track when it left the city...) I was thinking of going for a modernish layout (as steam trains do indeed still run as a novelty) but want to incoroprate bits from all of that.

I basically want the layout to be dedicated to these trains with hints of the countries behind them. Anyone tried to model to mixed dates/places? How did you go about it? I mean rocks grass and trees do not change, but the human side certainly does. What for example would be a generic station in use today that could be anywhere anytime.. Or a railyard with the simple features that they all share, i am fighting with what could work and what would just not.
 
Last edited:
One thing that gives away a layout era and locale is vehicles. A '55 Chevy would not go well in a Shinkansen layout. Either change them out or just not have any. Likewise figures. In the past, Oriental folks dressed far differently than your American cowboy, or your proper English gentleman. Even on an American layout, a fedora on a man would not be too appropriate on a modern layout. Railyards and scenery can be generic for the most part, structures in Europe and eastern USA are similar.
Otherwise I cannot offer any other real advice.
 
Perhaps i can do more "Asia" at one end and more "Europe" at the other. It will be a 16ft long shelf layout after all :/
Not sure i will have any roads, mostly countryside, if i do have vehicles or people they will be very generic, or be removable as opposed to stuck in place. I guess its best to steer it more towards current era and focus on natural scenery for the most part.
 
Last edited:
dgrafix said:
Perhaps i can do more "Asia" at one end and more "Europe" at the other. It will be a 16ft long shelf layout after all :/
Not sure i will have any roads, mostly countryside, if i do have vehicles or people they will be very generic, or be removable as opposed to stuck in place. I guess its best to steer it more towards current era and focus on natural scenery for the most part.
Click to expand...
Quite a predicament, I'm in the same boat as you, 60% of mine is UK based, all the industry, which is the remaining 40%, is US/ Europe based, so I've tried to use buildings that could also be found in Europe.
 
If you do end up with roads, avoid any markings or signage.
Dirt for major crossings indicates a time prior to WWII, concrete from 1930-1990, asphalt from the 1960s onward. A rural crossing could be any of the above, though skewed later in time from the major crossings.
Trees if any, will need to be mixed between types. Lots of skinny pines generally indicates areas in the Southern US, short dark pines indicates the far North areas. Palm trees make an area’s locale way too obvious. They don’t have many palm trees in England, for example.
Even the ballast under the tracks can indicate an area. Avoid concrete ties, as that is almost all modern era.
 
If your layout is all scenery, you will be most of the way there. If you want some buildings or industries, they would have to be somewhat nondescript and probably built from native materials like stone and wood. You would have to leave out anything decidedly modern.

Possibly subtle changes in location bordered by some type of visual barrier?

Good luck, Dave
 
Sounds like you need to model mostly wide open country, with very structures. Just do a good job on the scenery, and most folks probably wouldn't know the difference.

And just like placing a different train on the track, you could always build some different vehicle and structure dioramas to quickly change out on your layout, in order to add to the ambiance of your current train.
 
Things that change most over time:

- vehicles
- clothing styles on people
- road markings and signage
- architecture of new buildings - but older buildings stay around for decades. You can make older buildings look sort of "timeless", but if it's a new sort of post-modernist-new-wave-avant-guarde-cutting-edge sort of design, it starts placing a "minimum" date on the scene
- advertising signage/posters on buildings and billboards (good markers for era, best to avoid entirely for era-less)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the replies. As the layout will be quite a long shelf layout (16ft at N scale) with 2 turning circles.. I am thinking I could do something between the lines at either end with just nature in the middle. My original idea was like a mini Western Europe at one end and a mini Asia at the other. That way I could buy some creative licence by having "2 layouts.. with track in between and use one end as a 'turn-around' for the other" depending on origin of train.. maybe a tunnel in the middle to -emphasize- the separation. A kind of "portal" to the other side of the world lol.
I suppose modern era stuf is what I will mostly be collecting so had better go more millennium ish. (I mean that was 23 years ago already 😱)
I suppose any steam I want to run in the "universe" of my layout will be "museum peices out for an event/special journey".. I mean they still do that sometimes...
Hmm. Thanks for all the advice and ideas 👍

PS: It's contemporary I know and I'm sure there are layout puritans gnashing their teeth at me 😳, but my goal is to create a layout -dedicated- to the amazing engineering that has gone into HSTs over the last century and want it to somehow bring that alive, being nice to look at but delivering that message, (before being so 'believable' so to speak)
If I had room I would create a separate layout for each train lol but I don't 😩
 
Last edited:
dgrafix said:
Thanks for the replies. As the layout will be quite a long shelf layout (16ft at N scale) with 2 turning circles.. I am thinking I could do something between the lines at either end with just nature in the middle. My original idea was like a mini Western Europe at one end and a mini Asia at the other. That way I could buy some creative licence by having "2 layouts.. with track in between and use one end as a 'turn-around' for the other" depending on origin of train.. maybe a tunnel in the middle to -emphasize- the separation. A kind of "portal" to the other side of the world lol.
I suppose modern era stuf is what I will mostly be collecting so had better go more millennium ish. (I mean that was 23 years ago already 😱)
I suppose any steam I want to run in the "universe" of my layout will be "museum peices out for an event/special journey".. I mean they still do that sometimes...
Hmm. Thanks for all the advice and ideas 👍

PS: It's contemporary I know and I'm sure there are layout puritans gnashing their teeth at me 😳, but my goal is to create a layout -dedicated- to the amazing engineering that has gone into HSTs over the last century and want it to somehow bring that alive, being nice to look at but delivering that message, (before being so 'believable' so to speak)
If I had room I would create a separate layout for each train lol but I don't 😩
Click to expand...
Well...having an Asian Layout section opens the world to you...considerin quite a few Europen and American Prototypes wher sold and used in Asian countries....especially the interesting color schemes....if you look around on Shapeways , there are a few interesting Locomotive bodies available of US locos used in Asia...build especially for export...or used as bought....it sure sounds like a fun project....
 
bnsf971 said:
Avoid concrete ties, as that is almost all modern era.
Click to expand...
I was thinking originally of mainly going for perhaps the last 100 years (maybe starting with the scotsman). I did some reading on when they first started getting used. In 1880s they were sometimes used in the UK on tramways. They started being more used on mainlines in the UK & Europe during WW2 due to wood shortages, so are also prototypical of the later steam age (only not as common).
I eventually decided on a layout plan though, One half is going to be more modern and either industrial or city (not decided yet) so am using concrete at that end (first 8 feet) then after the central tunnels then i will switch to wooden track and it will be more naturey (other 8 feet).
I think i will end up with curent era anyway and maybe feature a small "Train Heritage Museum" at the country end for my steam trains and older Diesels.

Quite an interesting wikipage:
en.wikipedia.org

Concrete sleeper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
dgrafix said:
I was thinking originally of mainly going for perhaps the last 100 years (maybe starting with the scotsman). I did some reading on when they first started getting used. In 1880s they were sometimes used in the UK on tramways. They started being more used on mainlines in the UK & Europe during WW2 due to wood shortages, so are also prototypical of the later steam age (only not as common).
I eventually decided on a layout plan though, One half is going to be more modern and either industrial or city (not decided yet) so am using concrete at that end (first 8 feet) then after the central tunnels then i will switch to wooden track and it will be more naturey (other 8 feet).
I think i will end up with curent era anyway and maybe feature a small "Train Heritage Museum" at the country end for my steam trains and older Diesels.

Quite an interesting wikipage:
en.wikipedia.org

Concrete sleeper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
I think the concrete rail ties will work on the Industrial are, especially if the industry is late 1940's-50's, and even the odd earlier industry (1930 ish) with a wooden rail tie spur, really depends on what industries you end up using.
 
Just curious, which is the bit you call a tie? The "plank" was always called a sleeper by my grandfather, who was a steam engineer (and everyone i know back home calls them "sleepers"), The S shaped rings they hammer in to hold it down were the "rail ties" or "fasteners". Is this just a difference between the US/UK or do we call the sleeper a tie too? Or is it different historically? Or maybe "tie" has become synonymous with the entire unit (sleeper+ties/fasteners)
 
Last edited:
In North America, a "tie" is a shorter word for "crosstie", which is the wood or concrete plank that goes from rail to rail, the spike plates rest on it, then the rail, and spikes go through the tie plate into the tie, and hold the rail in place.
 
bnsf971 said:
In North America, a "tie" is a shorter word for "crosstie", which is the wood or concrete plank that goes from rail to rail, the spike plates rest on it, then the rail, and spikes go through the tie plate into the tie, and hold the rail in place.
Click to expand...
makes sense. thanks. (It actually clarifies that in my own wiki post above first line lol.. i must have skipped that to reach what i was looking for 😅 )
 
Last edited:
dgrafix said:
Just curious, which is the bit you call a tie? The "plank" was always called a sleeper by my grandfather, who was a steam engineer (and everyone i know back home calls them "sleepers"), The S shaped rings they hammer in to hold it down were the "rail ties" or "fasteners". Is this just a difference between the US/UK or do we call the sleeper a tie too? Or is it different historically? Or maybe "tie" has become synonymous with the entire unit (sleeper+ties/fasteners)
Click to expand...

The US use a similar system but slightly different name, the name Spike comes from the old method railways were built in the US, where literally a metal spike was hammered into the sleeper to secure the rail


1691277053364.png


The S shaped ring you refer to is called a SKL clip used on concrete sleepers
 
Yes that makes sense, I found what is called here a "chair" once on an footpath once, probably an old railway, lots where i grew up, and was told it was a old "rail tie" I know the S or SKL things are newer. I always thought of the fasteners themselves as the "ties" (in whatever form) and the bridging plank as the "sleeper" (at least on uk rails)
But good to know the right terms :D
 
Last edited:
dgrafix said:
Yes tat makes sense, I found what is called here a "chair" once on an footpath once, probably an old railway, lots where i grew up, and was told it was a old "rail tie" I know the S or SKL things are newer. I always thought of the fasterers themselves as the "ties" (at least on uk rails)
But good to know :D
Click to expand...
Glad I could help, by the way, have you found those passenger coaches you were looking for yet ?
 
Smudge617 said:
Glad I could help, by the way, have you found those passenger coaches you were looking for yet ?
Click to expand...
Yes i did, :D believe it or not i found them in Germany!!. Its just some 2nd & 3rd class ones, but it will give the old duck something to pull.
I will try and hunt down the restaurant and a 1st class one next time i am over which will hopefully in a few months :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top