Upgrade path for NCE


K

kencunningham

Member
I just purchased the 2 amp power cab system. If i have correctly understood what info i have managed to find at this point, the command station is the upgrade for this? Also, does the command station make this into the next higher system that has all of the bells and whistles? I'm just getting started in model rr and have alot to learn. Also bought a Athearn Genesis GP 15 with the Tsunami decoder. Haven't recieved either item yet.
 
kencunningham said:
I just purchased the 2 amp power cab system. If i have correctly understood what info i have managed to find at this point, the command station is the upgrade for this? Also, does the command station make this into the next higher system that has all of the bells and whistles? I'm just getting started in model rr and have alot to learn. Also bought a Athearn Genesis GP 15 with the Tsunami decoder. Haven't recieved either item yet.
Click to expand...


Oh, an NCE power cab and Athearn Genisis GP 15 with tsunami! That's starting out in style.

There is a defined upgrade path and an alternative I could suggest, but first you need to decribe some operating parameters to determine what you really need.

How many locos will you run simutaniously?

How many people will operate the layout at any one time?


The basic NCE system is quite advanced for a basic system. You can add a second cab to that system. The cab can be either another power cab or one of the engineer throttles. The main limitation with this system is the power avaliable. Sound locos draw more miliAmps (mA) than non-sound locos. I think a rule of thumb of 1 amp per sound loco will ensure you have plenty of power avalible. Thus the basic power cab is fine if you run two locos (seperately or consisted). This will do for a small layout.

The offical step up is to go for the pro cab system. The power cab fits right in with it as an extra cab. Pro cab is an excellent system which is hard to fault on technical grounds. My club uses this one. However it is not cheap and a massive overkill for smaller layouts.

Other ways to spend money are to go wireless. There is a wireless pro cab system, even more expensive than the pro cab. My father lashed out an bought it recently so I'll get to see how it runs soon. Once again, really best suited for large and busy layouts.

These pro cabs have 5 amps avaliable I think. Then you can add boosters in seperate power blocks. As you can see, fine for lots of locos, especially sound loco consists.

So, my intermediate suggestion would be to have a look at the smart booster SB-3A. This is take up to four cabs (including engineer throttles). It has 5 amps avaliable. Once again the power cab fits in nicely as an extra cab and programmer for the work bench. This will happly run five sound locos at once. For most people's home layout, this would seem to be enough.


Here's some links:

http://www.ncedcc.com/

Other ideas:

http://www.dccconcepts.com/

And my personal favourite system (for the work bench mainly)

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/
 
This is something that im doing so that i and my son (he is four, about to be five in January) can play together and have a good time. Since he is so young, there will only be one person operating the layout at a time.

Hopefully i can find another loco just like this one and buy it in the near future. I want to run them in a consist, and will probably need to. My layout will have a 2% grade and i want to pull long trains.

To clarify my earlier post, i was wanting to know if i could just buy the command station and that would make my power cab into a pro cab. Are there any differences in the handheld units?

Here is a pic of a ruff design that i have come up with to fit in the room that im going to use. I may change it some, like maybe moving the siding closer to the front to make access to the back of the layout easier. This is 10 x7, each block being 3 inches.
 
If on a tight budget and want to go wireless here is what I did. I bought the NCE USB adapter ($39.99 at model train stuff) and set up JMRI on my computer connected via the USB adapter(free). Then I ordered a cheap Chinese android tablet (for $85 new). You can download "engine driver" free at android market and using WiFi the tablet can control 2 engines or 2 consists wirelessly. I only run 2 engines at a time so my power cab fulfills my needs. If you already have an android phone or an iPhone or iPod touch you can save the $85.
-Art
 
kencunningham said:
This is something that im doing so that i and my son (he is four, about to be five in January) can play together and have a good time. Since he is so young, there will only be one person operating the layout at a time.

Hopefully i can find another loco just like this one and buy it in the near future. I want to run them in a consist, and will probably need to. My layout will have a 2% grade and i want to pull long trains.

To clarify my earlier post, i was wanting to know if i could just buy the command station and that would make my power cab into a pro cab. Are there any differences in the handheld units?

Here is a pic of a ruff design that i have come up with to fit in the room that im going to use. I may change it some, like maybe moving the siding closer to the front to make access to the back of the layout easier. This is 10 x7, each block being 3 inches.
Click to expand...



For your needs, the basic power cab is all you need.


It has integral 2.5 amp booster, the hand unit itself is also the command station.

The main thing the power cab doesn't do that the pro cab does is what is called 'program on the main'.

I had written quite a bit more but, as I have a knack of making simple things seem complicated, I though it might be better to refer you to this fellow's website and just delete all that rubbish I just wrote. He has a small home layout similar to your concept and he had to go through the same process of figuring out what DCC system would suit him:

He has a nice, down to earth way of explaining things. He has reviewed the NCE system, including the SB3a booster. I think you'll find his style more comprehensible than mine.

(He mentions the SB3a does not come with the 5 amp power supply, for example)


Take the time to look round his site.



Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com/index.html
 
Eh? I have the PowerCab and I program on the main all the time. It's the first option that comes up when hitting the "PROG" button, pressing it 4 times takes you to the programming track option.
 
TrinityJayOne said:
Eh? I have the PowerCab and I program on the main all the time. It's the first option that comes up when hitting the "PROG" button, pressing it 4 times takes you to the programming track option.
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I went back to the manual and had a look. You are right! It does indeed program on the main, so the OP can do his consisting. Also I said it has 2.5 amps. The specs say 2 amps. That is still enough for two sound locos.

Anyway, I can't see why he'd need any more than the power cab for some time to come.

Thanks for the correction.
 
Well i recieved the power cab today. Hopefully the loco will show up tomorrow and i can make sure this thing works. I bought this off of ebay, it was listed as new. The box looks like its been around the block quite a few times. However the unit itself looks like it hasnt been used, the cables have not ever been untied. I did find a invoice in the operators manual were someone in CA bought this thing 6 ( yes 6) years ago and somehow it went astray in shipping so they sent him another one. Im just hoping that this thing doesnt have a bunch of capacitors in it that are in bad shape. I did hook the power supply to the hand unit and it appears to work fine.
 
kencunningham said:
Well i recieved the power cab today. Hopefully the loco will show up tomorrow and i can make sure this thing works. I bought this off of ebay, it was listed as new. The box looks like its been around the block quite a few times. However the unit itself looks like it hasnt been used, the cables have not ever been untied. I did find a invoice in the operators manual were someone in CA bought this thing 6 ( yes 6) years ago and somehow it went astray in shipping so they sent him another one. Im just hoping that this thing doesnt have a bunch of capacitors in it that are in bad shape. I did hook the power supply to the hand unit and it appears to work fine.
Click to expand...
If you can hook it up and it boots ok then I think you'll be alright! :) It's a great system.

I will make a correction on one thing in the manual though because I'm fairly sure everyone comes across this issue. It mentions that you can change the amount of recall "slots" the RECALL button has access to, but this feature still hasn't made it into the firmware yet (although apparently it will soon). Until it does you'll be stuck with the default of two slots.
 
The PowerCab is a great system

Hey there,

I have had the NCE powercab for about 2.5 years now. Love it! Extremely easy to use. The manual is easy to understand and the system is pretty intuitive. I routinely run 2 trains containing 2-5 locomotives around 80 feet of track with no problems. Of those 5 locomotives, at least 2 are always sound. You wont need to upgrade to a 5 amp system unless you go to a much larger layout than you have planned.

I plan on building a much larger layout next year. Itll be 12x13 and have about 250 feet of track. I plan on upgrading my PowerCab with the Smartcab 3a booster, power supply, and 2nd throttle which will bring the system up to 5 amps.

The only issue Ive had with the Powercab is that the 6 pronged plug from the throttle to the cab bus has started to wear out with normal wear and tear. Its an easy fix though, only about $8 for a new cord from any Dcc supplier. Just be sure and use the 6 pronged one as its the only one that will work with the Powercab.

Enjoy!

Brad
 
bigB said:
The only issue Ive had with the Powercab is that the 6 pronged plug from the throttle to the cab bus has started to wear out with normal wear and tear. Its an easy fix though, only about $8 for a new cord from any Dcc supplier. Just be sure and use the 6 pronged one as its the only one that will work with the Powercab.

Enjoy!

Brad
Click to expand...

Any RJ12 phone cable will work (must be RJ12 with the 6 connectors) most phone lines are 4 leads only. I am planning on ordering a 15 foot one so that I can reach all around my 12x12' shelf layout. NCE sells replacement ones but not 15 feet in length.
-Art
 
Got my loco today, got home and threw some track down to make sure everything works. It appears everything is ok with the controler.

Should a Athearn Genesis GP 15 have lighted number boards, mine dont light up.
 
TrinityJayOne said:
...
I will make a correction on one thing in the manual though because I'm fairly sure everyone comes across this issue. It mentions that you can change the amount of recall "slots" the RECALL button has access to, but this feature still hasn't made it into the firmware yet (although apparently it will soon). Until it does you'll be stuck with the default of two slots.
Click to expand...


The Pro Cab has up to six recall slots. The Power Cab, when used as a Pro Cab, has up to six recall slots, but when used as a Power Cab only has two slots.

Artieiii said:
Any RJ12 phone cable will work (must be RJ12 with the 6 connectors)...
Click to expand...

Not any RJ12. There are two types - one type is straight or data cables, and the other is reversed or phone or voice cables. You need to make sure you get the straight or data type.

Artieiii said:
...I am planning on ordering a 15 foot one so that I can reach all around my 12x12' shelf layout. NCE sells replacement ones but not 15 feet in length.
-Art
Click to expand...

I would be leery of getting a longer cable for the Power Cab. Since the Power Cab has the booster built in, every foot you add to the cable is like adding two feet of small gauge wire to the track buss (because power has to go from the power supply to the Power Cab and then out to the track). I would definitely suggest that if you do add a longer cable that you perform the quarter test(short the track with a quarter and make sure the circuit breaker cuts the power) throughout your layout.
 
The PowerCab is supposed to have more, the instructions to adjust it are in the manual, it's just that the firmware was delayed so it's not actually in yet. There's plenty of discussions about it online.
 
kencunningham said:
I just purchased the 2 amp power cab system. If i have correctly understood what info i have managed to find at this point, the command station is the upgrade for this? Also, does the command station make this into the next higher system that has all of the bells and whistles? I'm just getting started in model rr and have alot to learn. .
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that anyone has really answered your question as yet, so I'll have a go.

As some have said previously, the Powercab is an entry level system, that has the controller built into the cab, meaning that it caannot be disconnected, and if you do disconnect it, the rails will go dead and the trains etc will stop.

There are two ways that you can upgrade the PowerCab..

Option #1.. is to purchase an SB3 that will boost your systems total power output to 5Amps... An SB3 will also enable you to operate your layout in true walk around fashion as your trains will not stop when you unplug your Cab.. From there you can additional DB3's if you need more than 5 amps output..

Option #2.. is to purchase the Power Pro 5Amp or 10Amp system, and then use your PowerCab as an additional Cab on the power pro system..

I have owned my PowerCab for over 5 years and have had no major issues with it..

If you are concerned with your sound loco's overloading the system, then the PowerCab has an inbuilt ammeter.. To enable the ammeter, you press the PROG/ESC button 6 times and you will come to a menu called Cab parameters, press the enter key and the first option should be "show track current" (you will lose the fast clock when the ammeter is enabled)..

Cheers
 
Hey, just for kicks I just tested out the ammeter function on my layout. Interesting results:

For 1 non-sound Atlas Traiman loco, track amperage never went above 0.30 amps. That's running it from low speed 1 to speed step 28. This unit has a NCE decoder in it.

Added 1 Tsunami sound decoder powered Kato plus an Atlas Silver with a NCE non sound decoder for a total of 3 locos. Ran up to speed step 22 and saw no higher than .70 amps.

Then added a Broadway Blueline (sound unit) in addition to the other 3 locos above. Now a total of 4 locos. Amps never went about .92 amps.

Added one last Intermountain Tsunami sound unit to the 4 above locos. Total of 5 locos (3 sound and 2 non-sound). Amps never went above 1.12 amps.

My layout currently has about 100 feet of track run.

Conclusion: For most home layouts, 2.5 amps is all amperage youll prob ever need. Unless you have alot longer track runs, assessory consumers, or more cabs, I think youd be hard pressed to exceed the amperage of the PowerCab.
 
Thanks for the info. Im still struggling with trying to learn how to use my power cab. I was wondering, if i got a mth with the auto couplers, would my power cab be able to operate them. Im not real sure about how to map the function keys to make it work, or even if it will work.

While im at it, what would be a good resource to help me understand how to better use (program) my dcc unit?
 
Just came back from trying the amp meter on the power cab. I have a Athearn Genesis GP 15 with Tsunami sound and it maxed out at .28 amps. I remember seeing this feature in the manual, but it didnt really stick out enough to get my attention. One thing I did manage to figure out is that you dont have to push the program button all those times if you know the number of times you have to push it to get to that setting. In this case you push it once and then press 6.

I think on of the first things im gonna tackle is to program the cv's that control the bell. I remember from reading over the technical manual for the Tsunami, (or it may have been the user guide) that there are two cv's to control at what speed the bell will automatically turn on and off. There is allso another cv that has to be set to turn the feature on.
 
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