Sound without DCC?

[JHansen]

I've finished one section of layout and started another. I have top quality locos, two steam and one diesel, that are smooth and very quiet. And this leads to my question. Operation would be so much more realistic with sound but how do I do this? I don't want to go DCC. Too expensive. I saw in MR magazine that MRC makes a controller that allows for sound but I'm using Kato everything including the little snap-on controls for switching. Is there an option I haven't found? Guidance would be appreciated.

John

 

[UP2CSX]

No, there's no on-board DC sound system in N scale that will work with Kato engines. However, there are sound systems made by Ram Track that duplicate things like train horns and whistles, as well as motor and steam engine sounds. They are separate modules and are played through a speaker you mount under the layout or concealed inside a structure. It's probably better than nothing but, unless you want to get into circuit wiring for multiple speakers and have a whole control panel of toggle switches, it's going to sound funny to hear the diesel horn loud and clear when the train is at the other end of the layout. The total cost of such a system would equal or exceed the cost of installing DCC on the layout and putting DCC sound and motor control decoders in your locomotives.

Why do you think DCC is too expensive if you haven't looked at the DC sound alternatives? You can get a DCC controller for around $130 and a DCC sound and motor controllers for around $75 each with some careful shopping. That would just about equal the cost of buying all the Ram Track modules you'd need for all the different sounds and nothing would be sychronized to the running locomotives. Regardless of how smooth and quiet your engines are now, they'll be twice as good running under DCC. DCC also remove the requirement to add power districts and isolated trackage so all your engines can be on the layout at the same time but only move when told to by the DCC controller. Analog DC is a dead technology and DCC is where the hobby is already at. Why spend money on DC sound effects when you'll eventually switch to DCC anyway, assuming you're in the hobby for the long term? All I can tell you is get to a hobby shop or MR club so you can listen to sound equipped engines running. You'll be hooked.

 

[JHansen]

Jim,
I thank you for the reply. That's why I brought my question here. I visited the LHS and was barraged with all the reasons I should buy a $450.00 DigiTrax system. Then I was told that the decoders for the two out of three locos I own that could have DCC w/sound added would be another $100.00 each. That's more than I paid for either of the locos. One is a just-released Kato EMD SD 70 and the other is a Bachmann Great Northern 4-8-4 with 52' tender. My third loco is an Athern steam 2-8-0 that I assume is too tiny to fit a decoder. Its Athern number is 10911 if anyone would like to tell me different. It would be a shame to retire it because it only has about an hour running time on it and I'm told that if I put it on a DCC track it will just run full speed. I guess I could offer it on Ebay or here on the forum.

The other thing that happened at the LHS is that I got to see and hear a steam loco run on DCC. I think I'm hooked. The stationary huffing and steam release sounds followed by the bell and then the whistle signaling backing followed by the synchronized chuffs of the backing loco was incredible. After all I've read about poor sound quality I was really surprised at how good it was. I gotta do DCC. I just ain't rich!

John

 

[UP2CSX]

John, hobby shops are no different than any other business. They want to sell you top of the line products that have the highest profit margins. The $450 Digitrax was probably a Super Chief Xtra. If you are planning a basement filling empire, it's not a bad choice.

For the types of layouts most of us have. The Digitrax Zephyr DCS50 is more than enough to run any small to medium size layout. You can get one at http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/dig-dcs50.htm for $144. I just picked one up off e-bay, still new in the box, for $130. The NCE 524025 is the equivalent starter set and it goes for $152 at http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/nce-524025.htm. You can sometimes find new ones on e-bay for around $135. These are the two leading systems in terms of number sold. Some people hate one brand or the other but both have faults and both will easily get you started in DCC.

If you want top of the line Soundtrax Tsunami decoders, they will cost right around $100, including the speaker. A much cheaper but still nice sounding option is the Digitrax Soundbug that goes for less than $40, inluding speaker. It doesn't have all the features of a Tsunami or Loksound high end sound decoder but certainly sound more than acceptable to me. You can even download different sound files to match your locomotive type.

The Athearn steam engine will run fine in DC on a DCC equipped layout. Whoever is giving you information on how DCC works is either lying or just plain dumb. You can always run one DC (analog) locomotive on your layout along with your DCC engines, and can have more than one analog engine in a consist. The DC locomotive won't just go flying off down the track.

The good news is that it's relatively easy to install a sound/motor decoder in any steamer. The whole tender is empty so you can install the decoder and speaker in the tender and connect it to the engine with a mini plug that will hardly be noticeable. Some guys mount the decoder in the engine and just the speaker in the tender, again, using a mini plug to make the connection between the engine and tender. I haven't been inside an Athearn steam engine in a while so I don't know if there's space for a decoder in the boiler area or not but either method I described would work. The same holds true for your Bachmann. I'm sure there's space inside the boiler for a decoder since some models come the factory with a decoder installed.

I didn't think sound was any big deal until I head my first sound equipped locomotive. It's just like crack - I was hooked instanly. I've got five engines converted tp sound now and the next up on the project list is a Bachmann 2-8-0. Deisles sound good but steam is just fantastic. Having grown up at a time steam engines were still running, the hold a special place in my heart.

 

[JHansen]

Jim,
Thanks again for all the good advice. I'll go to that website next and probably take a look at what's on Ebay as well.

As for the Athern, the motor is in the tender. There might be room to fit a decoder in the boiler though.

I'm like you when it comes to steam locos. I have three. One is an old Bachmann that shouldn't still be running but keeps hanging in there. I recently gave it a cleaning inside and out and it seems to be good for a while yet. It is really noisy but clatters along and pulls 20 cars without a problem. The one Kato SD 70 I bought just because I wanted a diesel loco. One is probably all I'll ever want. I'll see if I can attach a phot of that elderly Bachmann.

Thanks again,
John

 

[UP2CSX]

Those older Bachmann's are usually pretty good running engines although noisy, as you have discovered. They had decent detailing for their day although that tender is completely wrong for a UP 2-8-2 as is the engine, since the UP never had any locomotives that had Belpaire fireboxes. The GN did have 2-8-2's with Belpaire fireboxex and Vanderbilt tenders that sort of look like that engine and, with some kitbashing, can be made into a pretty good model of a GN Class O Mike. This is a picture of the real thing to get you started if you want to try your hand at making a more accurate locomotive:

The Bachmann engine is a reasonaly good model of Reading's Mikes although the Vanderbilt tender is wrong for it. You could replace the tender with a coal carrying square-type tender and then relettering it for the Reading.

 

[JHansen]

I think I'll just retire it to a display case as-is. I don't know how something that ugly, with the motor showing out the back of the cab, could be attractive but I like it. It's a hard working little engine.

 

[CSX Robert]

...You can always run one DC (analog) locomotive on your layout along with your DCC engines, and can have more than one analog engine in a consist. The DC locomotive won't just go flying off down the track...

While it is true that a DC locomotive won't just go flying off down the track, it is not true that you can always run DC locomotives on a DCC layout because not all DCC systems support it(out of some of the top systems, Digitrax and Lenz do, NCE and MRC don't).

 

[UP2CSX]

Robert, NCE systems all support DC operation, you just select DC on the throttle. MRC supports DC operation on address one. Where are you getting your information?

 

[CSX Robert]

Robert, NCE systems all support DC operation, you just select DC on the throttle. MRC supports DC operation on address one. Where are you getting your information?

NCE does not support running a DC locomotive. NCE's Power House Pro used to support running a DC locomotive(as a holdover from the Wangrow System One), but it was never from the throttle, you had to wire a potentiometer to the 9-pin serial port to control the DC locomotive. Even this, however, is no longer an option with NCE. NCE used to include the circuit in the manual for their system, but it is no longer included and although there is no mention in the manual or on the website, it is common knowledge among NCE users that NCE no longer supports running a DC locomotive(the Power Cab never supported it).

MRC's Command 2000 and original Prodigy both supported running a DC locomotive, but none of their current systems(Prodigy Express, Advanced, Advanced 2, Wireless) support running a DC locomotive. All of there current systems have a section in their manuals that say something along the lines of "The Prodigy Advance does not support NON-decoder equipped or analog locos. MRC’s earlier DCC systems do support running analog locos.However, running analog locos will dramatically slow the response time of your DCC system. Therefore, our new Prodigy Advance does not support this old feature."