So. Pac. passenger cars


BigE

BigE

Active Member
I was recently given 2 sets of 4 plus 1 that has the rounded back. This is HO.
They are in serious need of steel wheels. My regular supplier no longer carries the 12 packs of Intermountain what I got last time so I checked the next manufacturer, Reboxx, to see what they have. Turns out to be quite a bit of variety in sizes of wheels and axle lengths.
I swapped one of what I have to see how they fit. Too much horizontal slop for my liking - which makes me think I got the wrong thing last time. Too late now. So I got out the micrometer. Turns out these cars have 36" wheels. Is that typical for passenger cars in general? I ask because I have another set of 4 completely un-related pass. cars that I put these other wheels on.

Any wheel recommendations? MBKlein is my normal source so if you have a direct link send it on please.

Also on couplers: They came with Kaydee #148 best I can. They appear to be exactly the same as my bulk #148 pack I have. I run 18" curves and surprisingly [pleasantly] the cars actually handle it just fine. However, the corners get AWFULLY close on the curves so I'd like to replace those with some extended shanks.
Any recommendations on that please?

Thanks, Eric.

Here are 2 of the cars. I'm told they are Athearn kit cars given the snap-on coupler covers.

SoPacCars.JPG
 
BigE said:
Turns out these cars have 36" wheels. Is that typical for passenger cars in general?
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Yes.

Any wheel recommendations?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't know what axle length is required for those (apparently Athearn) cars.

Also on couplers: They came with Kaydee #148 best I can. They appear to be exactly the same as my bulk #148 pack I have. I run 18" curves. However, the corners get AWFULLY close on the curves so I'd like to replace those with some extended shanks.
Any recommendations on that please?
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That would be a #146. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale Couplers.htm
 
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Thank you Iron Horse. I can't use the small knuckles.
Any lead on a 50 pack of #146 couplers?
E.
 
Ok so now we have established 36" would be proper on passenger cars.
So now that begs a question. Why?
Does 36 makes for a smoother ride for the passengers?
Why 33 on freights, tankers, hoppers and gons and such?
Why bigger for the drivers on the locos? (I imagine that would a torque and physics thing)
I ask in complete ignorance.
E.
 
BigE said:
Ok so now we have established 36" would be proper on passenger cars.
So now that begs a question. Why?
Does 36 makes for a smoother ride for the passengers?
Why 33 on freights, tankers, hoppers and gons and such?
Why bigger for the drivers on the locos? (I imagine that would a torque and physics thing)
I ask in complete ignorance.
E.
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That is actually an easy 1 word answer for both - speed.
Larger drivers on the steam locos allow them to go faster because each rotation of the wheel moves the train further down the track.
Larger wheels on the passenger cars allow them to track better and hence (safely) go faster.

There are of course many other factors but that's the kernel base.
 
Iron Horseman said:
That is actually an easy 1 word answer for both - speed.
Larger drivers on the steam locos allow them to go faster because each rotation of the wheel moves the train further down the track.
Larger wheels on the passenger cars allow them to track better and hence (safely) go faster.

There are of course many other factors but that's the kernel base.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, speed, no brainer. I'm a mathematician as well as a computer scientist.
So why put 33" on anything else?
Speed and wheel diameters would have nothing to do with any cars being pulled.
What say ye?
I don't mean to be or sound argumentative, just curious.
E
 
BigE said:
So why put 33" on anything else?
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That one is easy too - Cost. The larger amount of material required to make a 36" diameter wheel vs that to make a 33" wheel. Ideally they would all have 42" wheels, but the cost is just too high. It is always a cost vs performance trade off.

Speed and wheel diameters would have nothing to do with any cars being pulled.
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Yes it does. Larger diameter wheels are going to track better on curves. The rail is rubbing the side of the flange to get the car to turn. The larger the diameter the more area to rub and turn the wheel, hence easier turning the car. The higher speed the more important this is. If a train was going to limp along at 5 mph they could probably get by with tiny 12" wheels like a mine cart has.

This is also why heavy passenger cars have 6 axles instead of 4. Three wheels of each truck slamming into the outside rail has more contact area and is going to turn better & smoother than just two.
 
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Wow! I just got a Walthers catalogue in the mail today. They feature some of these cars almost identical.
Gees, they are expensive!!!! I have 2 vista dome cars just like they show for $70 each.
The other cars I have are close to that on the price tag.

Perhaps I should think about renter's insurance just for this train stuff.
Besides my trains, and coin and stamp collection I don't really have anything of value that isn't already stuck in my head or I haven't already lost for other reasons - divorces, foreclosure, etc.

Just musing......
E.
 
BigE said:
Perhaps I should think about renter's insurance just for this train stuff.
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The National Model Railroad Association has an insurance agency that specializes in model train collections. When I set about moving to the big house in 2012, I suddenly envisioned my trains splatted and scattered all over the interstate due to the trailer jack knifing or something, so I got the "blanket" policy for 80% of the value of my trains. I figured I would never have a 100% loss. I got a discount for having an alarm on the house, and another discount for storing the brass (and other outrageously expensive things) in a safe. The policy protects from loss due to accident, theft, natural disaster whether they are at home or traveling with me to shows.
 
Iron Horseman said:
The National Model Railroad Association has an insurance agency that specializes in model train collections. When I set about moving to the big house in 2012, I suddenly envisioned my trains splatted and scattered all over the interstate due to the trailer jack knifing or something, so I got the "blanket" policy for 80% of the value of my trains. I figured I would never have a 100% loss. I got a discount for having an alarm on the house, and another discount for storing the brass (and other outrageously expensive things) in a safe. The policy protects from loss due to accident, theft, natural disaster whether they are at home or traveling with me to shows.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing an ad show up here once and while about that. That company specializes in any kind of collectible. Maybe I'll check them out next time I see the ad.
 
BigE said:
Wow! I just got a Walthers catalogue in the mail today. They feature some of these cars almost identical.
Gees, they are expensive!!!! I have 2 vista dome cars just like they show for $70 each.
The other cars I have are close to that on the price tag.
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I don't know about that. You might be comparing apples and oranges. I thought Walther's stopped carrying Horizon Hobbies (a.k.a. Athearn) products in their catalog about 10 years ago. Are you certain you aren't looking at the Walther's vista domes? An Athearn should be more in the $30 ranges as these:
Caboose Hobbies http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=65&products_id=239252
or Train World http://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/athearn/Athearn-29264-Streamlined-Dome-SP-3605-/

The Walther's cars are prototypical length, have much more sophisticated trucks, come with body mounted proto-max couplers (Kadee knock offs), flush window glass, detailed under bellies, interiors (although pretty pathetic ones), and are set up for lighting.

Or are you saying that you do have Walther's cars in your collection as well?
 
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Iron Horseman said:
I don't know about that. You might be comparing apples and oranges. I thought Walther's stopped carrying Horizon Hobbies (a.k.a. Athearn) products in their catalog about 10 years ago. Are you certain you aren't looking at the Walther's vista domes? An Athearn should be more in the $30 ranges as these:
Caboose Hobbies http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=65&products_id=239252
or Train World http://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/athearn/Athearn-29264-Streamlined-Dome-SP-3605-/

The Walther's cars are prototypical length, have much more sophisticated trucks, come with body mounted proto-max couplers (Kadee knock offs), flush window glass, detailed under bellies, interiors (although pretty pathetic ones), and are set up for lighting.
Click to expand...

You're probably right about all that. Mine are pretty thin on details.
 
The Athearn blue box passenger cars are out of production. You can still find plenty of "new old stock" and kits at swap meets, but they aren't in the Walthers catalog. RTR versions are announced, but will be assembled, and not sure if they were upgraded. The $70.00 cars are probably Walthers cars. You are wise not to use the small knuckles. They are a pain on passenger cars unless your track is perfect. Kadee 36" wheels will fit as will Jay Bee. Have you tried Intermountain direct for wheels?
 
Iron Horseman said:
That one is easy too - Cost. The larger amount of material required to make a 36" diameter wheel vs that to make a 33" wheel. Ideally they would all have 42" wheels, but the cost is just too high. It is always a cost vs performance trade off.

Yes it does. Larger diameter wheels are going to track better on curves. The rail is rubbing the side of the flange to get the car to turn. The larger the diameter the more area to rub and turn the wheel, hence easier turning the car. The higher speed the more important this is. If a train was going to limp along at 5 mph they could probably get by with tiny 12" wheels like a mine cart has.

This is also why heavy passenger cars have 6 axles instead of 4. Three wheels of each truck slamming into the outside rail has more contact area and is going to turn better & smoother than just two.
Click to expand...

Larger diameter wheels are easier on bearings because the wheel goes further per revolution; smaller wheels have to turn more, and subsequently heat up. As such, larger wheels are better for high speed. The weight of the car is also distributed better through the wheel with large diameter. That isn't to say the contact area with the rail is better, just that the wheel handles the weight better.

Heavyweight cars have more wheels for distributed load, and has nothing to do with tracking. Tracking is more poor with large wheels and longer trucks because of scrub action. Smaller wheels track several fold better in tight radii than long trucks and wheels because of this. A larger wheel has larger flanges, which bite the rail before and after the point of contact of the tread on the wheel. This is the reason you would want to use a small sawblade for delicate details and a regular circular saw for a straight cut. A train will always ride the outside rail in a curve regardless of wheel size.

I hope no train ever slams into any rail!
 
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