Shelf layout questions


A

adamsdp

New Member
Hi,

I am planning to build a 2' x 8" ho shelf layout (dc) something along the lines of either design below -

552919


or

552920



I have Siever's benchwork and Atlas code 100 track that I bought 30 years ago and now have time to make a layout. This will be my first layout and I wanted to post for advice -

- I have good supply of Atlas code 100 track with 3 Atlas snap switches and 2 Atlas #4 custom line turnouts and 1 Atlas custom line wye turnout. I am planning to buy Peco code 100 #6 turnouts and not use any of the Atlas turnouts, except perhaps the wye. I have read the snap switches are prone to problems, that #6 turnouts would be a better choice than #4 and have read good things about Peco's turnouts. The Unifrogs don't come in code 100 so thinking the main decision I think I have left is whether to get the Insulfrogs or ElectroFrogs. I have read that the Electrofrogs have the advantage for low speed operation so leaning to go with them. The Electrofrogs require more wiring than the Insulfrogs but doesn't look like much extra work. Any advice about turnouts in general or the Electrofrog vs Insulfrogs will be greatly appreciated.

- Will it make any sense to divide this small layout into separate electrical blocks? I am going to be the only one operating the layout. Would 2 locomotives be used on such a layout?

- I am planning to install hand thrown ground controls (Caboose Industries CAB5218S) to start with and maybe add Tortoise switch machines later. If the Siever's benchwork will interfere with the location of any of the Torsoise switch machines would it make more sense to move the location of the turnout or leave as planned and do a work around for the Tortoise switch machine?

- I am building the layout at an offsite location and will need to transport it one time. I have a minivan that can haul the 2' x 8' layout in one piece if turned on it's side and can delay putting the final touches on until after transport so thinking it isn't worth the extra work to divide into modular 2' x 4' sections that can assembled/disassembled.

-Some of my track looks a bit dirty? and wanted to see if alcohol is good cleaner? Any issue using the Walther's Bright Boy track cleaner?

- I plan to use Kadee couplers and any advice about the best decoupling methods (magnetic vs magnetic delayed, under track vs between rails, hand magnetic tool vs hand pick, magnetic vs electric) will also be appreciated. I would like to start with a simple method such as hand magnetic tool, then add magnet or electro-magnet later.

- Which of the 2 track plans look better? Is there a different direction I should consider for a 2' x 8' layout?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Dave
 
If you plan to go to modular events, then the second track plan might be better, albeit you only show a straight-on connection for other modules at the right end. Perhaps you could place an additional left-hand turnout just to the right of the turnout that branches to the Quaker Oats plant.
The hand magnetic tool is convenient, especially since you don't have to reach very far to uncouple cars. If you plan to use any under-the-track magnets, install them as you are laying the track. So far as using under-the-layout switch machines is concerned, I would determine where they would have to go and install them as you build. If there is interference with the structure, you might want to move the underlying structure a bit. Trying to move turnouts to fit the switch machines can be...uh...trying. If you are going to use Caboose Industries ground throws with Peco turnouts, you may need to remove the springs from the point throwbars. Otherwise, it might be just as easy to leave the springs in and not connect the groundthrows, using them just for looks. If you are going to use two locomotives, will you be trying to work them both at the same time? If so, you probably will want to go to DCC so you can give them different addresses. Otherwise, you may want to provide a siding, where you can shut off the electricity using track insulators and a SPST or DPST switch on the control panel.
Good luck, stay well and safe!
 
Dave - Welcome aboard to our friendly forum. You're asking a lot of questions and you obviously have come prepared. I will answer most of them, but be aware that these are my opinions and you will probably get some differing answers. In advance, I run all Atlas Code 100 and I run DC.
Regarding the switches, There is nothing inherently wrong with Atlas switches, either Custom Line or Snap Switches. Sometimes they need a little tweaking, but I have over 110 of them in #4, #6, Wye, and a few Snap Switches where necessary. Yes, #6 look and operate better, and Snap Switches might be a little tight for very large steamers, but even most 6 axle locomotives will operate on them all. Peco's are slightly better looking, but are more expensive. Regarding Electro-Frog versus Insul-Frogs, all of my Atlas switches are Insul-Frogs by default. I have no issues at all. Otherwise I cannot make a recommendation.
If you plan to use DCC, then one electrical block is all that is necessary to run two locos. For DC, a track where the power could be turned off and on as Trailrider advises, while the loco is parked is needed, preferably two short spurs.
While I am not familiar with the construction of Siever's benchwork so I would recommend just designing the track plan to accommodate any under table supports. Personally I would just stick with the ground throws. But that is a decision that's best left up to you.
If you can transport it, 2' x 8' in a single module is a better bet, you would avoid the hassles associated with joining the two together, like alignment, wiring harness and that scenery dividing line.
Alcohol is a good cleaner, just wipe it off with a lint-free cloth when you're done. That's all that I normally use but my track doesn't really get dirty. Brite Boys are OK, but excessive use will leave minute scratches on the track surface. For used track, I use an old pink school eraser.
Since you're only dealing with a 2' wide layout, uncoupling with a magnetic uncoupling wand or a bamboo skewer would be the easiest route. Both require a bit of practice to master them, but once you learn, it's easy. I use the Rix uncoupling tool. It is available on many Internet suppliers and hobby shops.
Either of the plans look good to me. It's really up to you.

As I posted above, I use DC because I am a lone operator and I have no desire or ability to run two trains at once. My eyes can only track one at a time. That being said, if I were just starting now, I might go DCC but that can be complicated as the layout grows with boosters and whatnot.
Another word of advice, since your track is 30 years old, it would be best to be sure that it is nickel-silver and not brass. Brass works well but requires much more cleaning. I use some leftover pieces on industry spurs where I will not be running an engine on.
Good luck and happy running.
 
trailrider said:
If you plan to go to modular events, then the second track plan might be better, albeit you only show a straight-on connection for other modules at the right end. Perhaps you could place an additional left-hand turnout just to the right of the turnout that branches to the Quaker Oats plant.
The hand magnetic tool is convenient, especially since you don't have to reach very far to uncouple cars. If you plan to use any under-the-track magnets, install them as you are laying the track. So far as using under-the-layout switch machines is concerned, I would determine where they would have to go and install them as you build. If there is interference with the structure, you might want to move the underlying structure a bit. Trying to move turnouts to fit the switch machines can be...uh...trying. If you are going to use Caboose Industries ground throws with Peco turnouts, you may need to remove the springs from the point throwbars. Otherwise, it might be just as easy to leave the springs in and not connect the groundthrows, using them just for looks. If you are going to use two locomotives, will you be trying to work them both at the same time? If so, you probably will want to go to DCC so you can give them different addresses. Otherwise, you may want to provide a siding, where you can shut off the electricity using track insulators and a SPST or DPST switch on the control panel.
Good luck, stay well and safe!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help!

Dave
 
santafewillie said:
Dave - Welcome aboard to our friendly forum. You're asking a lot of questions and you obviously have come prepared. I will answer most of them, but be aware that these are my opinions and you will probably get some differing answers. In advance, I run all Atlas Code 100 and I run DC.
Regarding the switches, There is nothing inherently wrong with Atlas switches, either Custom Line or Snap Switches. Sometimes they need a little tweaking, but I have over 110 of them in #4, #6, Wye, and a few Snap Switches where necessary. Yes, #6 look and operate better, and Snap Switches might be a little tight for very large steamers, but even most 6 axle locomotives will operate on them all. Peco's are slightly better looking, but are more expensive. Regarding Electro-Frog versus Insul-Frogs, all of my Atlas switches are Insul-Frogs by default. I have no issues at all. Otherwise I cannot make a recommendation.
If you plan to use DCC, then one electrical block is all that is necessary to run two locos. For DC, a track where the power could be turned off and on as Trailrider advises, while the loco is parked is needed, preferably two short spurs.
While I am not familiar with the construction of Siever's benchwork so I would recommend just designing the track plan to accommodate any under table supports. Personally I would just stick with the ground throws. But that is a decision that's best left up to you.
If you can transport it, 2' x 8' in a single module is a better bet, you would avoid the hassles associated with joining the two together, like alignment, wiring harness and that scenery dividing line.
Alcohol is a good cleaner, just wipe it off with a lint-free cloth when you're done. That's all that I normally use but my track doesn't really get dirty. Brite Boys are OK, but excessive use will leave minute scratches on the track surface. For used track, I use an old pink school eraser.
Since you're only dealing with a 2' wide layout, uncoupling with a magnetic uncoupling wand or a bamboo skewer would be the easiest route. Both require a bit of practice to master them, but once you learn, it's easy. I use the Rix uncoupling tool. It is available on many Internet suppliers and hobby shops.
Either of the plans look good to me. It's really up to you.

As I posted above, I use DC because I am a lone operator and I have no desire or ability to run two trains at once. My eyes can only track one at a time. That being said, if I were just starting now, I might go DCC but that can be complicated as the layout grows with boosters and whatnot.
Another word of advice, since your track is 30 years old, it would be best to be sure that it is nickel-silver and not brass. Brass works well but requires much more cleaning. I use some leftover pieces on industry spurs where I will not be running an engine on.
Good luck and happy running.
Click to expand...
Willie,

Thank you for the helpful information! I have the Rix magnetic and Kadee uncoupling tool on order so will try them both out. Thanks for mentioning about the eraser. I will try that out. My track is nickel-silver and has some small discoloration marks on the track surface. I tried rubbing with alcohol and it hasn't come off. I also have the Brite Boy on order and will use it sparingly if the eraser doesn't take off the discoloration. I am happy to stick with dc for now - brings back good memories of growing up in the 70's with friends having nice ho layouts.
 
Hi Dave, welcome to this spot! Cruise around the place, check out what's going on.
I like the Swartz Creek #1. It's a more opened up plan, more opportunities for industries. I like the flow of it.
Yes, there is a lot of info to digest in model railroading, especially since you got that track 30 years ago. So have you decided what kind of a railroad you want? A piece of fir plywood with track nailed to it? A museum quality piece? Or something in between those two? What ever that is, take a little time and do some research on each aspect of the build. You'll be glad you did.
If your only going to move it once, one piece it.
You could divide it electrically, I would. Wouldn't be hard. Even at 2x8, it would still make trouble shooting easier. ( see there, more research 🤪) On plan #1, the dark colored "mainline" that S curves through the middle of the board, just isolate the two switches on the top, and the left hand switch on the bottom of the main line. Now you have 3 districts, the main line being one of them.
Swartz Creek #1 looks like it could interchange mining railroads. Or a nice little logging scene. Have you a decided on a time period?
Sorry, no Peco advise here, I'm totally Shinohara. (and have had very good luck with them, thank you!)
Kadee's, yup yup, good choice.
That's all I got.....🤪
 
Welcome aboard.

The Swartz Creek layout looks more appealing because of the curves. Although railroads tend to prefer straight line running and many incredibly realistic layouts of modern industrial areas have straight lines the curves of Swartz Creek I believe are more visually appealing. The crossing and the tunnel portal for staging add to this visual appeal, put a small low trestle on the main just as it exits the left side would improve the layout visually also while giving you another build project. There appears more places to spot cars at Swartz Creek also.

I have some questions regarding the second plan and items to take into consideration. Have you contacted a module group? What are their construction standards for bench work, electrical connections, track? Consider breaking it down into two 2x4 sections for ease of carry as placing on its side even for a one time move has potential for damage. I bring up module groups/clubs just in case you decide to join one. Today while discussing three local module groups with the local hobby shop, (planning on meeting up with one) but both have different module size specifications along with track standards. One was code 83 & 70 while the other was strictly code 100. The height of the layout, the locomotive control (both DCC) but different systems, prototype, freelance foreign roads. One module group was strictly SP Steam. This is something to consider before building the 2nd plan with an eye towards a module group.

For uncoupling Kadee couplers I use a handheld magnetic uncoupling tool. My layout is also a narrow shelf so Caboose Industries ground throws are used because all turn outs are within reach. If you are inclined to have someone operate with you, DCC should be considered as it gives you options without having to build a control panel with center off toggle switches (am I dating myself?).

I have used alcohol, bright boys, rail zip, drafting erasers and foam abrasives on a rotary tool (never again). Go on-line and search for 'best track cleaner". There was an article that researched, conducted tests and came to the conclusion that CRC electrical cleaner worked best and didn't leave a film on the track. Unfortunately didn't bookmark it.

Back to the two layouts shown, which is better? That's up to you. The Swartz Creek looks like it would be a good layout for small 2-8-0 consolidations with 40' cars of the depression or WWII era. The second I imagine SD40-2s spotting 60' flats of equipment, 60' box cars with repair parts and supplies for the parts and service departments and covered hoppers and boxcars for Quaker Oats. Much more colorful than boxcar or oxide reds.

Good luck. welcome aboard and please keep me and others posted on any updates.
 
I would suggest that you change the design to the following, that eliminates a switchback and makes the interchange more useful, with no reduction in capacity. Red is track added, green is track removed.
2x8.png
 
Thanks to everyone for the welcome and help! I agree with the likes of the Schwartz Creek layout. At first, the second layout looked more structured and appealing but the more I look at the Schwartz Creek, the better it looks. Thanks for the tips about dividing into electrical blocks and the track modifications. Are switchbacks generally avoided or is it case where some like them some don't?

The time period I am thinking of is the 50's-60's in the northeast. My engines both are from that era and area. Going to try to make it looks good but I'm sure it won't be a showpiece.

Great idea about the trestle and that will definitely give nice added interest. Do you have any recommendations on who makes a trestle kit? I will look into dcc but don't mind throwing the switches - dating myself too - that is how the layouts in my neighborhood were done growing up. I will research the CRC electrical cleaner and good to know there are a variety of options.

A lot to learn and grateful for all the encouragement and information!
 
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